Richard Dawkins "I'm A Cultural Christian", problems with Islam and Christianity

[Black Panther]

This feels like one of those rare moments where we look back and think about just how different things were culturally at one time. Rich Dawkins, Christopher Hitchins and a few others were once on the front lines of religious criticism and atheism. They didn't like Islam, largely supported the US in the "war on terror" but also criticized Christianity quite hard. They'd appear on PBS, new shows, radio shows, college campuses etc to have open debates on a variety of these types of topics. Today that culture of intellectual debate is largely dead, replaced by culture war obsessions from the far right and pure identity politics from the left. There is no market for a British atheist thinker today. The type of person who may have bought his books 20 years ago is now entirely obsessed with transsexuals or DEI.

I'm not sure whether Dawkins is just trying to pay the bills or maintain the lifestyle he built with his previous success. Either way it's a cynical shift for someone I used to find interesting. This isn't the first time he's taken a rightward turn though. Just a few years ago he was flirting with racial IQ "science." I hope folks understand how bad this is. We've got a society that doesn't read anymore, doesn't value expertise, and doesn't care about intellectuals or debate. We just have large groups of people obsessing over whatever the Bad Thing Of The Month is. Critical race theory? Trannies in bathrooms? DEI? Just endless bullshyt to yell about while important issues are ignored or sidelined.

In my view, Dawkins and Sam Harris were always self-aggrandizing grifters. Often the loudest person in the room is the one with the least to say. (I was and remain a theist, so I'm a bit biased.) That was confirmed for me when they started flirting with IQ pseudoscience (The Bell Curve) and right-wing pro War on Terror positions (mainly due to being anti-Islam).

Same for their second-rate YouTube clones like The Amazing Atheist and thunderf00t. Both of which drifted into anti-feminism and weird definitions of free speech that amounted to "if I act like a complete a$$hole online you can't check me."

Most nonreligious folks I know IRL aren't loud, rude, condescending and hostile around religious folks. They also seem to have realized that hardcore atheism is just as untenable as religious extremism. Agnosticism is much more reasonable, partly because it involves enough humility to recognize that you don't know everything.

 

[The Plug]

cacstian

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Dawkins, is of course, correct.

99% of westerners dont want to live in any modern islamic society.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This feels like one of those rare moments where we look back and think about just how different things were culturally at one time. Rich Dawkins, Christopher Hitchins and a few others were once on the front lines of religious criticism and atheism. They didn't like Islam, largely supported the US in the "war on terror" but also criticized Christianity quite hard. They'd appear on PBS, new shows, radio shows, college campuses etc to have open debates on a variety of these types of topics. Today that culture of intellectual debate is largely dead, replaced by culture war obsessions from the far right and pure identity politics from the left. There is no market for a British atheist thinker today. The type of person who may have bought his books 20 years ago is now entirely obsessed with transsexuals or DEI.

I'm not sure whether Dawkins is just trying to pay the bills or maintain the lifestyle he built with his previous success. Either way it's a cynical shift for someone I used to find interesting. This isn't the first time he's taken a rightward turn though. Just a few years ago he was flirting with racial IQ "science." I hope folks understand how bad this is. We've got a society that doesn't read anymore, doesn't value expertise, and doesn't care about intellectuals or debate. We just have large groups of people obsessing over whatever the Bad Thing Of The Month is. Critical race theory? Trannies in bathrooms? DEI? Just endless bullshyt to yell about while important issues are ignored or sidelined.

In my view, Dawkins and Sam Harris were always self-aggrandizing grifters. Often the loudest person in the room is the one with the least to say. (I was and remain a theist, so I'm a bit biased.) That was confirmed for me when they started flirting with IQ pseudoscience (The Bell Curve) and right-wing pro War on Terror positions (mainly due to being anti-Islam).

Same for their second-rate YouTube clones like The Amazing Atheist and thunderf00t. Both of which drifted into anti-feminism and weird definitions of free speech that amounted to "if I act like a complete a$$hole online you can't check me."

Most nonreligious folks I know IRL aren't loud, rude, condescending and hostile around religious folks. They also seem to have realized that hardcore atheism is just as untenable as religious extremism. Agnosticism is much more reasonable, partly because it involves enough humility to recognize that you don't know everything.

The problem is, most people seem to be ok with “islam” rhetorically without considering how different islam is functionally.

Americans just dont have that many muslims to think about. Europe does out of sheer proximity and they do NOT like it.

It’s a complete culture change and frankly, it should be OK to admit you dont want to live that way without being accused of being a bigot etc.

The real issue is, we get so tolerant to the point where you can’t even raise the question without incurring the wrath of being labeled a republican or alt-right figure etc. If anything, it’s democrats/the left’s fault for not drawing a line on what cultural practices they want to tolerate or permit while offering some resistance to others. If you don’t give people a way to express themselves, they just make alliances with even worse characters.

The desire to distance ourselves from christian conservatism doesn’t mean we need to tolerate radical islam or anti-hegemonic positions (like commie tankies) just to prove how open minded we are to the alternative.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You a weird little nikka Hadith's are not all authentic and have to go throw a rigorous authentication to prove it was said by the prophet (pbuh) or some body close to him. Also Hadith’s are not the Quran, Muslims follow the Quran and only the Quran, you weird nikkas to talk with authority on shyt you don’t even know. Making bold claims on false premises and then using cherry picked nonsense to help support your inherent bias. That Hadith isn’t even respected or seen as a real authentic Hadith, you just an Islamaphobe p*ssy

you’re not helping your argument if you’re moving the authority from one source to another while ignoring the controversial practice called into question, namely women’s rights.

 

[LuuqMaan]

How do you write an essay here while spamming the Booth with anti Cole posts?
Same time??

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This English mf doesn't have a religious preference...he spent his life shytting on religious thumpers. He just doesn't like brown people. Specifically, the ones who practice religions he's unfamiliar with and has been publicly hesitant to shyt.

he seems fine with non-islamized brown people, if this is your argument.

 

[Fillerguy]

he seems fine with non-islamized brown people, if this is your argument.

The way cacs are cool with Blacks who don't hang around Blacks. Completely meaningless

 

[Prynce]

you’re not helping your argument if you’re moving the authority from one source to another while ignoring the controversial practice called into question, namely women’s rights.

You’re a Indian

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You’re a Indian

I’m not. I’m a black male.

And this isn’t a complete response to you deny women’s rights in the modern world.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

The way cacs are cool with Blacks who don't hang around Blacks. Completely meaningless

Whats this got to do with people not want to be around or supporting islam?

 

[Neuromancer]

This feels like one of those rare moments where we look back and think about just how different things were culturally at one time. Rich Dawkins, Christopher Hitchins and a few others were once on the front lines of religious criticism and atheism. They didn't like Islam, largely supported the US in the "war on terror" but also criticized Christianity quite hard. They'd appear on PBS, new shows, radio shows, college campuses etc to have open debates on a variety of these types of topics. Today that culture of intellectual debate is largely dead, replaced by culture war obsessions from the far right and pure identity politics from the left. There is no market for a British atheist thinker today. The type of person who may have bought his books 20 years ago is now entirely obsessed with transsexuals or DEI.

I'm not sure whether Dawkins is just trying to pay the bills or maintain the lifestyle he built with his previous success. Either way it's a cynical shift for someone I used to find interesting. This isn't the first time he's taken a rightward turn though. Just a few years ago he was flirting with racial IQ "science." I hope folks understand how bad this is. We've got a society that doesn't read anymore, doesn't value expertise, and doesn't care about intellectuals or debate. We just have large groups of people obsessing over whatever the Bad Thing Of The Month is. Critical race theory? Trannies in bathrooms? DEI? Just endless bullshyt to yell about while important issues are ignored or sidelined.

The number one thing that the U.S. exports is culture. If that is true then the world is gonna be in for a bad ride based on cultural wars.

How did we as a nation and a species get here do you think?

 

[ChatGPT-4]

Dawkins, is of course, correct.

99% of westerners dont want to live in any modern islamic society.

modern...like Dubai and Qatar?

 

[voltronblack]

The number one thing that the U.S. exports is culture. If that is true then the world is gonna be in for a bad ride based on cultural wars.

How did we as a nation and a species get here do you think?

I think because there money in it I sure poster like @Scustin Bieburr could gave you more nuance take than because of capitalism if you feel like it you should check out Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media

Funny, provocative and accessible, Manufacturing Consent explores the political life and ideas of Noam Chomsky, world-renowned linguist, intellectual and political activist. Through a collage of biography, archival material, imaginative graphics and outrageous illustrations, Mark Achbar and Peter Wintonick's 22-award-winning documentary highlights Chomsky's probing analysis of mass media and his critique of the forces at work behind the daily news.

Viewers are encouraged to extricate themselves from the “web of deceit” by undertaking a course of “intellectual self-defence.” Appearing in the film are leading journalists and critics, including Bill Moyers, William F. Buckley, Jr., Tom Wolfe, Peter Jennings, Jeff Greenfield, Michael Moore, philosopher Michel Foucault, White House reporter Sarah McClendon and New York Times editorial writer Karl E. Meyer.

 

[Fillerguy]

Whats this got to do with people not want to be around or supporting islam?

I'm talking racist whites. Do have to explain why cultural assimilation rhetoric and tokenism are forms of prejudice, especially coming from a rapidly declining dominate group?