The devolution of the Western Left from Paris Commune to identity politics has been a disaster

[Broke Wave]

This has been an interesting journey. We co uldve had a discussion if you weren't so desperate for daps and e-rep.

From the start, my argument was that the current environment opens the door for both sides of the spectrum, not simply the right. Populism isnt simply a right-wing phenomeon. Hell if you believe Bernie wouldve fared better against Trump, doesnt that concede that its not simply a rising right tide?

Upcoming elections in Western Europe further supports the point, that left ideas/parties remain viable and that its not simply a right phenomenon. Instead of engaging this argument you've gone in circles. Its been fun.

The idea is that the public is supportive of left wing policies when polled on them individually therefore a candidate like Bernie would have been very strong given his favourablility and positions. The problem is that the media and corporate controlled political parties do not allow the true left candidates to ascend to the national level and when they do they are held in contempt by their own parties. There is a growing discontent with the establishment and neo-liberalism so you have a system where Trump can win, and also Bernie Sanders can win, but Trump runs against someone who is to the right of his stated positions on many issues and wins. The American election was far right vs center right.

 

[thatrapsfan]

The idea is that the public is supportive of left wing policies when polled on them individually therefore a candidate like Bernie would have been very strong given his favourablility and positions. The problem is that the media and corporate controlled political parties do not allow the true left candidates to ascend to the national level and when they do they are held in contempt by their own parties. There is a growing discontent with the establishment and neo-liberalism so you have a system where Trump can win, and also Bernie Sanders can win, but Trump runs against someone who is to the right of his stated positions on many issues and wins. The American election was far right vs center right.

The idea of a guy like Corbyn or even Hamon for that matter rising to their parties leadership would be unthinkable a decade ago. Same for Bernie being a competitive candidate for Dem leadership.

Theres a big opportunity for renewal and theres hardly anything predictable about what will happen next. Im pushing back against the idea that what we see is simply the rights ascendancy. The traditional right-wing parties are struggling as much as their counterparts on their left.

I seriously doubt the narrative about the rights ascendancy will hold if: Merkel loses to a coalition to her left and if Le Pen loses to opponents to her left. You can disagree with this, but theres nothing idiotic about the claim.

 

[Shogun]

Major party? Not really. Maybe the brief 15 year period of the New Deal.

We're a right wing country through and through. It's synonymous with American culture at this point.

I agree. Though, at the time of America's founding the "core American values" were liberal. They've since become conservative, but, regardless of terminology, they are ideas that are fundamentally opposed to socialism.

 

[Shogun]

Yeah, pre-1930s before the gop took over and destroyed the Democratic party

Progressive Liberalism and Socialism are similar, but philosophically different.

 

[David_TheMan]

Progressive Liberalism and Socialism are similar, but philosophically different.

The question was has there ever been two parties in the US.
I said yes, pre GOP takeover of the Democratic party.

What you have just written to me has nothing to do with what i posted.

 

[Shogun]

The question was has there ever been two parties in the US.
I said yes, pre GOP takeover of the Democratic party.

What you have just written to me has nothing to do with what i posted.

Fair, it seems we were taking "far left" to mean different things.

 

[David_TheMan]

Fair, it seems we were taking "far left" to mean different things.

I think you might have me mixed up with another poster
I only commented on the status of political parties, not left or right or far right or far right or any other designation.