We gotta have a discussion on Liberia bruh

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Hotep
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This is my first post in the root:leon: ...welcome me:blessed:
I didn't think my 1st would be so overtly political tho :jbhmm:

Statement:

With the Americo-Liberians(African Americans). The "Crime" was believing they got to have there own country "cause Da white man said so" not that they despised the Local Africans.

Context:

The issue of Liberia keeps getting distorted into issues far out of what it was ...which was something typical to every other country it happened in.

I.E. Europeans treat one African group with privileges and when they leave shyt spirals out of control(and in the case of Liberia it didn't spiral out until the U.S. pushed it via C,I,A, for Liberia cooperating with U.S.S.R.) Remember the U.S. always had strategic dealings with Liberia because that's where they got their rubber(rubber trees are tropical plants) via firestone especially necessary during war time.

How We Uncovered Firestone’s Deal with Charles Taylor
How We Uncovered Firestone’s Deal with Charles Taylor

Firestone's Liberian Adventure
Firestone's Liberian Adventure



It is also a staging area for operations in Africa ...even to this day they were trying to use it as an Africom staging point.​

Obama to Announce Africom Joint Force Command HQ in Liberia
Obama to Announce Africom Joint Force Command HQ in Liberia > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Article

AFRICOM: Wrong for Liberia, Disastrous for Africa
AFRICOM: Wrong for Liberia, Disastrous for Africa - FPIF


Further Examples:

Somalia -
Northern somalia(Somaliland) was administered by the British and the rest was administered by the Italians. When the unification of the country broke down after the U.S.S.R switched sides and started supporting the Durg regime in Ethiopia during the ogaden war; a civil war broke out and Somaliland said "fukk it we good up here by ourselves with the political system left by the brits" to this day Somalia is split in two with somaliland jockeying for global recognition.

Sudan -
The British in Sudan administered Northern Sudan as Muslim while proselytizing the south under Christianity. When the British left they put the government in the hands of the northern Muslims. Who ran the country as a Muslim state. Consequently shyting on the traditionalist & Christians leading to civil war and modern separate Sudanese states.

Rawnda -
(We all know this one) German/Belgian administration treated the Tutsi & Hutu(which initially were not ethnic terms and had more to do with position in society) as separate races of people based on phenotype and the debunked "Hamitic theory" that the children of ham(Tutsi) came in to Africa to rule over the negros(Hutu). When the German/Belgian administration left the complex of relations remained culminating in a civil war.

"According to the Hamitic theory, this "Hamitic race" was superior to or more advanced than Negroid populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. In its most extreme form, in the writings of C. G. Seligman, this theory asserted that virtually all significant achievements in African history were the work of "Hamites" who had migrated into central Africa as pastoralists, bringing new customs, languages, technologies and administrative skills with them."
Hamitic - Wikipedia
Nigeria - Same as Sudan Brits administer the country as a Muslim north / Christianized south with people who historically never worked as a political unit. Then left the country with a coalition government largely in the hands of the Muslim north. With people who want nothing to do with those other people and feel they can work fine on their own..Again culminating in civil war.

Liberia - (I think we all see the pattern now) cacs from the U.S. goes to the Berlin conference says they want Liberia. Cacs then goes to Liberia and gives the local Africans(who are already there and minding there own business) some superficial trinkets for land near the sea. They then tell another group of African people(African Americans) hey you guys don't like it here? Well you can have your very own country and make your very own rules ...just get on the boat.

African Americans get off the boat and start building(cacs leave)
Local Africans are like, who da fukk yall spose to be?
To which the African Americans can only say "Da white man said I can have my own country here".......(on yall land)
They live separate lives short of trade but there is a catch....the "American Colonial Society" designated a landmass at the Berlin conference.
Liberia-on-map.jpg


But the African American colonies are only on the coast


which means those coastal colonies have to militarily defend the rest of the landmass from the British & French by going through other peoples land.

At this point...
1. the coastal colonies have the larger economy, education, contacts, & army.
2. they are all AA & Local Africans surrounded by European colonialist encroaching on the area
3. the African Americans don't want to include the local Africans in their elections because to them they get to have their own country "'Cause da white man said so"

Now over time these issues while simmering ...never actually breakout into full all out war like in the early days. Eventually all people in the territory are allowed to vote(rigged as it might have been).
It's not until Liberia distances itself from the U.S. and takes a non aligned stance that the coup breaks out.

"After World War II, the U.S. pressured Liberia to resist the expansion of Soviet influence in Africa during the Cold War. Liberian president Tubman was agreeable to this policy. Between 1946 and 1960 Liberia received some $500 million in unrestricted foreign investment, mainly from the U.S. From 1962 to 1980, the U.S. donated $280 million in aid to Liberia. In the 1970s under president Tolbert, Liberia strove for a more non-aligned and independent posture, and established diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union, China, Cuba and Eastern bloc countries. It also severed ties with Israel during the Yom Kippur War in 1973, but announced it supported American involvement in the Vietnam War."
History of Liberia - Wikipedia

...and just like every other nation in Africa and south America you know what happens next :comeon: they caught the Thomas Sankara, Patrice Lumumba, etc, etc treatment. With President William R. Tolbert, Jr being assassinated via Samuel Does' coup. The country didn't break out into formal Civil war until even later, after the escape of Charles Taylor from a U.S. Maximum security prison.

:patrice:Taylor Alleges US Govt Helped Him Escape From US Prison:martin:
Taylor Alleges US Govt Helped Him Escape From US Prison
Conclusion:
The simple narrative that African Americans went to Liberia and started shytting on the locals is an over simplified narrative that needs to be cut out. Liberia is a country from the jump has been compromised by Europeans. Be it the Berlin conference, pitting two groups of Africans against each other by telling one you get to have a country in anothers territory, backing multiple coups, being exploited for rubber, etc, etc

Now specifically with the Americo-Liberians(African Americans). The "Crime" was believing they got to have there own country cause "Da white man said so" not that they despised the Local Africans.
1. Local Africans were hampered from electoral access because African Americans wanted their own country.
2. Local African labor was exploited on firestone plants under African Americans for the same reason it was exploited under Samuel Doe, Charles Taylor, and currently under Ellen Johnson Sirleaf.
3. Local African labor was exploited in other industries under African Americans for the same reason blood diamond labor was exploited under successive political office holders of Liberia.
4. If African Americans are given Land in Africa it should be by the local population not by outsiders pulling an Israel/Palestine move on Africa.

Like wise these things didn't happen in shashemene because the larger dynamics didn't exist. Emperor haile selassie said here is some land and a political organization to manage it E.W.F. Ethiopian world federation.

...and non of the Liberian nonsense happened.:hubie:


This simplified Liberian narrative has to die... this argument is the same argument that people bring up in ghana when the topic of citizenship for African American(Diasporans) comes up ...well what about Liberia:ooh: Well what about it.:beli: What does African Americans being absorbed into an existing African Society have to do with a group who were under the impression they got to build and maintain their own society.:beli: ...and didn't want to loose the society they worked to build.:beli: The two have nothing in common.:beli:




Sidenote:
This is aimed specifically at a recurring narrative that's overly simplified and later used in other inappropriate contexts.. :hubie::francis:
 
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Bawon Samedi

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Anyways this is a VERY good thread that debunks some myths imo. Many people who try to argue against American Blacks going to Africa try to use Liberia as a negative example. And like you said they simplifily the situation.

Before the civil war Liberia was among the most stable African countries!
 

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Anyways this is a VERY good thread that debunks some myths imo. Many people who try to argue against American Blacks going to Africa try to use Liberia as a negative example. And like you said they simplifily the situation.

Before the civil war Liberia was among the most stable African countries!
:ufdup:
I didn't even want to push that rout("well It was only prosperous because they exploited the people" - :usure:) but it's true.:francis:
 
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Apollo Creed

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Anyways this is a VERY good thread that debunks some myths imo. Many people who try to argue against American Blacks going to Africa try to use Liberia as a negative example. And like you said they simplifily the situation.

Before the civil war Liberia was among the most stable African countries!

Liberia could have reached GOAT status under President Tolbert. He worked towards unifying Americo and indigenous Liberians and was trying to move the country away from being the b*tch of the West. Of course the CIA got him out the paint because they felt he was going to align Liberia with the soviets.

Liberia pre tolbert was stable but the americo liberians were in fact giving away the natural resources and taking on bad debt and the Americo Liberians did practice a elitist idealolgy towards the indiginous groups and looked at them as "uncivilized". This is what made it so easy for missionaries to come in and corrupt indigenous people who wanted to be like the Americo liberians.
 

Paradise50

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I've gotten that vibe also :patrice:
I always thought it was because they were very U.S. leaning ...sorta like how some Caribbean countries lean heavily toward ex colonial rulers.:jbhmm:
yea something like that....there's a name they call them (can't remember) but it's basically saying they're "fugazi africans" ....which is :dame: considering it was former descendants returning back to Africa :dwillhuh:
 

King Musa

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The simple narrative that African Americans went to Liberia and started shytting on the locals is an over simplified narrative that needs to be cut out. Liberia is a country from the jump has been compromised by Europeans. Be it the Berlin conference, then pitting two groups of Africans against each other by telling one you get to have a country in anothers territory, backing multiple coups, being exploited for rubber, etc, etc

These are buzz phrases you should always keep in mind (And you will) when reading and studying the modern history of the continent of Africa and it's disparity, especially when studying colonization. I have always seen Liberia talked about in such an over-simplified manner....Whether it be the politics that surround the initial AA move to the nation, or the reasoning's behind it's de-stablization and why it is supposedly a standing example of why AA's cannot move nor build on the continent.

Good Thread.....
 
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Liberia could have reached GOAT status under President Tolbert. He worked towards unifying Americo and indigenous Liberians and was trying to move the country away from being the b*tch of the West. Of course the CIA got him out the paint because they felt he was going to align Liberia with the soviets.

Liberia pre tolbert was stable but the americo liberians were in fact giving away the natural resources and taking on bad debt and the Americo Liberians did practice a elitist idealolgy towards the indiginous groups and looked at them as "uncivilized". This is what made it so easy for missionaries to come in and corrupt indigenous people who wanted to be like the Americo liberians.

You told no lies :ufdup:

My observation then becomes all of this is still happening under successive leadership... so the question then becomes what are the dynamics of Liberia that would cause this to continually occur.:jbhmm:

giving away the natural resources and taking on bad debt
1. Why aren't the rubber tree feilds taken from the U.S. corperation firestone with latex production and processing done & sold in/from liberia? (Then & Now)

practice a elitist idealolgy towards the indiginous groups and looked at them as "uncivilized".
2. Why does the European cultural cannon(academia, religion, media, attire, etc) carry so much pull among Liberian(African) people to the point were they denigrate their own African culture? (Then & Now)

missionaries to come in and corrupt indigenous people
3. Why do Liberian(African) people allow foreign proselytizers(religious,NGO's, etc.) to run rampant throughout the populous undermining the culture of the people? (Then & Now)

Getting the right answer depends on asking the right questions. Hopefully I asked the right questions.:francis:
 
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Birnin Zana

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True but whatever the reasons were it still ultimately failed and I think that turns away a lot of already "scared of Africa" diaspora blacks....

Liberia is ultimately a convenient excuse when it's all said and done.

Most of those folks won't even visit any parts of Africa, let alone move there for an extended period of time or in some permanent capacity. Their "fear" is deeper than Liberia's situation.
 
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