African countries and their corrupt strongmen

[rosie93]

The main problem with African countries is the fact that they have selfish leaders that don't want to improve their countries. A lot of them use public funds to vacation in Europe and no one bats an eye. Honestly if ONE African country can get a strongman similar to Xi Jinping (someone who uses his near absolute power to improve the country) then things will improve. Also, If at least one African had done something similar to the Meiji restoration things would be better today. The Japanese saw foreigners trying to bully them so they responded accordingly by going abroad to see how to modernize. The strongmen of Asia use their power to improve the lives of their people ( Meiji, Xi Jinping, Park Chung Hee etc.). They did have a few bad strongmen such as Mao Zedong but you could argue that he kind of kick started China's economic revolution. Nigeria would be a good starting point. Imagine Nigeria getting a strongman that 1. Like Xi, he has to purge his political enemies so that no one can stop him
2. Create a state where dissidents are taken care off (USA has a hard time thwarting China's
rise because, unlike other divided countries, USA can't just pay rebels to cause commotion in China since dissidents don't really exist
3. Infrastructure projects that will improve the country
4. Improving the economy and developing homegrown industries.
5. improve literacy rates across the country
Nigeria would easily become a top 10 economy (especially since they already have a lot of educated/talented citizens

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

I was talking to a Malian dude a few weeks ago who was super critical about the politicians and especially leadership in Africa. I was agreeing with him although I don't know as much about it as him (i'm not african) but he did check what he was saying by adding that they do have to play a balancing game. if they try to do too much for their people it will cost european economic interests and they risk a coup. like what happened with sankara in burkina faso. So its really hard to build up the kind of political power where you can work as a strongman effectively before getting outed like that.

 

[rosie93]

I was talking to a Malian dude a few weeks ago who was super critical about the politicians and especially leadership in Africa. I was agreeing with him although I don't know as much about it as him (i'm not african) but he did check what he was saying by adding that they do have to play a balancing game. if they try to do too much for their people it will cost european economic interests and they risk a coup. like what happened with sankara in burkina faso. So its really hard to build up the kind of political power where you can work as a strongman effectively before getting outed like that.

China has shown that coups can be avoided if everyone is "onboard". That's one of the main reasons why the CIA is having such a hard time getting rid of Xi Jinping.

 

[DEAD7]

I believe a brutal dictator with the right aspirations would be good... as backwards as it sounds.

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

China has shown that coups can be avoided if everyone is "onboard". That's one of the main reasons why the CIA is having such a hard time getting rid of Xi Jinping.

but politically i think china has a stronger infrastructure and political resources to resist that kind of foreign interference. for that to be the case elsewhere i think a country would need something like their own version of the CCP that can continually reproduce loyal cadres and leaders. the equivalent political parties and systems in most african countries are pretty weak. and usually a weaker state or political authority makes coup-proofing harder.

 

[PoorAndDangerous]

I believe a brutal dictator with the right aspirations would be good... as backwards as it sounds.

you're an idiot.

A strong leader with a vision doesn't have to be a brutal dictator

 

[DEAD7]

you're an idiot.

A strong leader with a vision doesn't have to be a brutal dictator

I don't believe a "strong leader" can overcome the type of corruption Africa faces both internally and externally without absolute government control.
… and unifying African nations, in my opinion, will involve some sort of force/human rights violations.

I also believe Africa has had strong leaders... and here we are

I'm perfectly fine being wrong though

 

[Professor Emeritus]

So how does Paul Kagame rank in this discussion?

John Magufuli?

Or El-Sisi?

Ian Khama for someone who stepped down recently? (I don't really know anything about Mokgweetsi Masisi)


Someone like Ellen Johnson Sirleaf may be a different category altogether.

 

[rosie93]

So how does Paul Kagame rank in this discussion?

John Magufuli?

Or El-Sisi?

Ian Khama for someone who stepped down recently? (I don't really know anything about Mokgweetsi Masisi)


Someone like Ellen Johnson Sirleaf may be a different category altogether.

He's honestly a good example. If only Rwanda had Nigeria's oil, they could easily become the next Singapore .

 

[rosie93]

you're an idiot.

A strong leader with a vision doesn't have to be a brutal dictator

He does when you have external forces trying to brew up divisions (westerners backing rebels and opposition leaders).

 

[TTT]

Africa has had strong leaders and they failed, in fact there are countless examples of that type of leader doing nothing but stay in power until they get kicked out or die. Xi Jinping is coming in after Deng, Jintao, and many other leaders from the CCP, it is a lot less personality cult and much more institutionalized even though Xi seems to upend that model. I remember seeing an academic study showing the divergence in results between Asian and African dictators in producing results. Kagame is another one who is less Xi and more of the old African strongman model. I honestly don't rate him that much, I have read about how he wants to turn his country into Singapore but they just don't have the human resources skills to achieve that and they have been far too dependent on aid and support from the West. The issue with African leaders is they see the strongman model as a means of staying in power and not about development.

 

[rosie93]

Africa has had strong leaders and they failed, in fact there are countless examples of that type of leader doing nothing but stay in power until they get kicked out or die. Xi Jinping is coming in after Deng, Jintao, and many other leaders from the CCP, it is a lot less personality cult and much more institutionalized even though Xi seems to upend that model. I remember seeing an academic study showing the divergence in results between Asian and African dictators in producing results. Kagame is another one who is less Xi and more of the old African strongman model. I honestly don't rate him that much, I have read about how he wants to turn his country into Singapore but they just don't have the human resources skills to achieve that and they have been far too dependent on aid and support from the West. The issue with African leaders is they see the strongman model as a means of staying in power and not about development.

That was my point if you read what I actually typed in the OP.

 

[get these nets]

The main problem with African countries

Asian countries don't have the divisions along ethnic and/or religious lines that exist in modern African countries.

 

[PoorAndDangerous]

I don't believe a "strong leader" can overcome the type of corruption Africa faces both internally and externally without absolute government control.
… and unifying African nations, in my opinion, will involve some sort of force/human rights violations.

I also believe Africa has had strong leaders... and here we are

I'm perfectly fine being wrong though

Do you hear yourself? A brutal dictator is going to "overcome corruption"? Rofl. Why would a brutal dictator not participate in corruption. They need a leader who cares about the land and it's people & has a vision.

 

[DEAD7]

Do you hear yourself? A brutal dictator is going to "overcome corruption"? Rofl. Why would a brutal dictator not participate in corruption. They need a leader who cares about the land and it's people & has a vision.

The Chinese govt. is a great empirical example, they continue to rapidly improve the quality of life for their citizens and have proven willing to kill thousands of them should they get out of line.
Ends justifying means etc.


I'd love to see a dictator take control, bring nations together, push some form of African exceptionalism and lift the country up... if he had to bloody his hands to do sot he status quo is worse imho














We'd remove him eventually