ALI: CTE vs. Parkinsons

[julesocean]

Here is an excerpt from an article that explains the stance:

The boxing media rarely acknowledged the problem of chronic brain damage in fighters until Muhammad Ali's struggle became public. And as Dixon notes, "The old punch-drunk terminology was rarely used with Ali. Perhaps they thought it was too cruel a label for a man who had given so much and who had awed the world with his brutal elegance."

But the same media has largely ignored the problem of CTE apart from Ali. And there are times when the cause of Ali's condition isn't honestly addressed.

Three decades ago, I was Ali's authorized biographer. With his consent, I reviewed hundreds of pages of medical records and talked at length with his doctors. There was no doubt in my mind, or that of his primary physicians, that boxing was the main cause of his physical decline at that time.

Ali preferred to think that boxing was not the cause. I believe this was in part because of his vanity as a great boxer. Also, he didn’t want to think that boxing - which he loved - would cause a condition like his. Anytime someone talks about studies that show an outsized proportion of football players in the United States suffering from CTE, what they're really saying is that football causes brain damage. What was Ali going to do? Get up and say, "I’m talking the way I am because I boxed too long. Boxing did this to me." The next logical thing to say would then be, "Don't box." And Muhammad wasn’t prepared to say that.

Aaron Pryor, one of the greatest fighters ever, suffered from chronic brain damage after retiring from boxing. He died in 2016 at age 60. Having talked at length with Frankie Pryor (Aaron's widow), Dixon writes, "Frankie wished Lonnie Ali, Muhammad’s wife, had publicly acknowledged the reason behind the icon’s demise. Frankie felt that their involvement would have shone a light on CTE far faster and would have helped countless more fighters understand and admit to what had happened to them. If boxing could shut down the best - The Greatest - where is the shame in that?"

Frankie Pryor emphasized that point to Dixon, saying, “The one fighter who had the notoriety and could have brought a lot of attention to this was Ali. And then they went off on the Parkinson’s thing. That pissed off a lot of people in boxing, that Ali’s family chose to say, ‘Oh, he has Parkinson’s, it has nothing to do with boxing.’ It has everything to do with boxing. I don’t think it was done maliciously. Maybe Lonnie didn’t fully understand the impact. But just to say, ‘It wasn’t boxing; it was Parkinson’s.’ No, it wasn’t.”

Further to that point, historian Mike Silver declares, “The false narrative with Ali has mostly been foisted [by] people who are ignorant of the problem and don’t understand it or they’re Ali lovers that don’t want to believe it. His own family, who are really trying to preserve his legacy in the most positive light, says that he suffered from Parkinson’s disease and would have got that if he was a bricklayer. That's ridiculous. Now, would he have developed Parkinson’s on his own? Possibly. But you cannot tell me, no logical person would say that someone who has taken whatever it was he took - and he took some horrific beatings, especially to the head - that his brain is not going to be affected by that. He’s boxing’s poster-person for brain damage.”

link to the full article, elaborates on other fighters: Damage: The Untold Story of Brain Damage in Boxing







I agree with this. I think he was showing major signs of CTE in the back part of his career, and the Holmes fight really made it much more severe. Let's remember how physically athletic he was, how mentally sharp and aware he was. Like next level shyt. And even when he retired, he was still more witty and alert than normal men, but you have to compare it to where he was before.

I also think that people within boxing, from media, other fighters, family, and even casual fans did not want his exit (not his legacy), but his exit to be tarnished with the Punch Drunk label, one that would make Ali, and the culture look "bad". If this played out nowadays where we are more socially aware, and medically aware, and more willing to address these issues, I think it would have played out differently in terms of citing Parkinsons as the major reason.

How does everyone stand on it?

 

[patscorpio]

its not a secret that muhammad ali was brain damaged.....the worst thing was that point of view that boxing was not cause of it or not really the sole factor...big muhammad ali fan but there is no other way he got parkinsons other than he fought too hard and too long in the ring

the shavers fight is the fight that blew out the candles...you dont go 15 rounds with a monster puncher after all those wars and think you are going to leave boxing as is...but no one wanted him to stop except his doctor ferdie pacheco who had to leave his camp after that cuz he predicted what eventually happened to him

 

[patscorpio]

boxing induced parkinsons is a thing...ali was sharp mentally but physically it was a wrap

 

[shopthatwrecks]

boxing induced parkinsons is a thing...ali was sharp mentally but physically it was a wrap

overtime mentally It turned to oatmeal...evander n bowe is on their way hate to see it...

 

[patscorpio]

overtime mentally It turned to oatmeal...evander n bowe is on their way hate to see it...

bowe has been had it...golota destroyed that man's brain in those 2 fights

 

[Erratic415]

bowe has been had it...golota destroyed that man's brain in those 2 fights

It’s astonishing how slow he looked against Golota. You can watch his first fight with Evander, or even the Gonzalez fight a year earlier, and compare it with the Bowe who fought Golota.

He looked like he was moving underwater. He was never a good defensive fighter to begin with, and Bowe’s face (and groin) was like target practice for Golota.

 

[patscorpio]

It’s astonishing how slow he looked against Golota. You can watch his first fight with Evander, or even the Gonzalez fight a year earlier, and compare it with the Bowe who fought Golota.

He looked like he was moving underwater. He was never a good defensive fighter to begin with, and Bowe’s face (and groin) was like target practice for Golota.

gonzalez fight was the last of "prime" bowe...bowe that had some discipline and skillset...i keep saying that very FEW fighters could take the beating bowe took in the 2nd golota fight

 

[EBK String]

I think alcohol and drug use makes you more susceptible which would explain guys like Bowe. Also when you're out of shape your defense slips and you take more shots

 

[patscorpio]

I think alcohol and drug use makes you more susceptible which would explain guys like Bowe. Also when you're out of shape your defense slips and you take more shots

Bowe wasnt an alcohol and drug guy...he just loved to eat and blow up in weight in between fights..that took a toll on his body esp his reflexes

Like @Erratic415 said you could see his gradual decline and the golota fights accelerated it

 

[xiceman191]

Watching that Ali vs Larry Holmes fight was tragic cause even before the fight you could see that he wasn't right mentally. There was no reason for him to be in the ring that night

 

[Reggie]

Ali probably should have never fought again after the 3rd Frazier fight. To realize he still fought Norton a 3rd time Shavers and Holmes after this means someone didn't give two fukks about that man or his health. Hell with the wars with Lyle 2 more with Norton 2 with Frazier the Foreman fight etc. meant he had more classic wars in his career then probably 4 boxers combined. It's obvious that man's decline in health was from boxing and someone should have had his best interests at heart.

 

[MJ Truth]

Ali probably should have never fought again after the 3rd Frazier fight. To realize he still fought Norton a 3rd time Shavers and Holmes after this means someone didn't give two fukks about that man or his health. Hell with the wars with Lyle 2 more with Norton 2 with Frazier the Foreman fight etc. meant he had more classic wars in his career then probably 4 boxers combined. It's obvious that man's decline in health was from boxing and someone should have had his best interests at heart.

Everyone, including Ali, just had the money on their mind. But someone needed to be there to protect Ali from himself. Especially when you consider Ali used so much of his money to give it away and help others, which is the saddest part; it’s not as though he was looking for bags so he himself could keep living lavishly. Kinda feel like history has a chance of repeating itself with Pacquiao. Hopefully there’s someone in his life that’s gonna be willing to stop him from competing when that time comes.