Am I the only one that doesn't believe in "over saturation" in music

[CrimsonTider]

There seems to be a lot of posters off put by my stance that an artist can't turned people off by releasing tons of music

I just don't think no ones career has been negatively affected by dropping tons of music in their creative primes while they have the Hiphop worlds ear

Jay dropped an album every year from 96-03 and sometime multiples in year and no one said he was over saturating

Pac dropped tons of music, Future has dropped 7 projects in a years time and featured everywhere and his career is flourishing

Cole dropped 3 mixtapes before FHD, Drake drops music all the time

Lil Wayne issue isn't that he dropped too much music when he was at his zenith it's that his music isn't as good anymore because he's washed creatively

There is also no evidence that "taking a break" or "taking longer to craft" music will result in better songs

Artist releasing music when they are at the height of their creative wave should be applauded and encouraged


There overriding issue is making good music and bad music, if the music isn't as good it doesn't matter at what pace it's released people will not fukk with it

If your making good music don't just keep it in a vault

 

[CrimsonTider]

@SirBiatch @MAKAVELI25

 

[SirBiatch]

There are two types of music listeners: casuals and serious.

Casual fans follow the crowd, and will buy whatever is considered hot and available. They don't care as much about quality. And music made for them is disposable. They need to be 'fed' constantly or they'll forget about you. So yes, in this case you gotta keep putting out product and essentially force yourself on the casual base. Most disposable artists never catch on for an extended period of time. Something happens. A new gimmick or a twist on your gimmick and suddenly you're gone. However, you as the artist can get lucky enough where you're basically entrenched in the ecosystem. And your fans come to depend on you on almost a monthly/quarterly basis for new hot shyt. It doesn't mean you're making incredible music. You're not. You're just the soundtrack to a person's life. Background music for them to go the gym to, turn up, get faded, do office work, etc. Your job at this point is to vulture budding talent and keep yourself surrounded by new and easily expressible gimmicks.

Serious music listeners cherish atmosphere. They want to savor what you drop, and want you to make something that'll last them a long ass time before they hear from you again. You flood them with music and they'll turn off because they'll sense it's lower quality. And they're almost always right. Great art takes a lot of time to make. It took Nas 20 years of his life to make Illmatic. Think about that for a second. Great artists take their time. They release stuff, see how it's received, study the world, update their craft, then build another (hopeful) masterpiece. The music is not background music at all. It's foreground. The audience sits there and takes in everything.

All the examples you mentioned are pop rappers who make music for casual fans. And frankly, there are other factors involved in being successful at oversaturation or not. Ja Rule, an act for casual listeners, flooded the market with songs and then suddenly got ja ruled. Ghostface, an act for serious listeners, flooded the market at one point in the mid 2000s after Fishscale and nearly killed his career imo. Missy, an act for serious listeners, at one point oversaturated herself. Missy used to take 2 years between albums. Then Get Ur Freak On came out, went nuclear, and she kept dropping stuff. Phenomenal hits... yes. But weaker albums. Sometime around the time of "Pass That Dutch" her shyt just started feeling predictable**.

You can rush mediocrity and over saturate a casual audience. But we music fans are not fooled.





***Note: I know some idiot poster is gonna read this post and go "Missy for serious listeners?" and post gifs/smilies without any explanation. Missy started off as an album artist. When you're making stuff that's inventive as hell, your fanbase is largely serious music listeners.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Good points on both sides.

 

[CrimsonTider]

There are two types of music listeners: casuals and serious.

Casual fans follow the crowd, and will buy whatever is considered hot and available. They don't care as much about quality. And music made for them is disposable. They need to be 'fed' constantly or they'll forget about you. So yes, in this case you gotta keep putting out product. Eventually you as the artist get lucky enough where you're basically entrenched in the ecosystem. And your fans come to depend on you on almost a monthly/quarterly basis for new hot shyt. It doesn't mean you're making incredible music. You're not. You're just the soundtrack to a person's life. Background music for them to go the gym to, turn up, get faded, do office work, etc.

Serious music listeners cherish atmosphere. They want to savor what you drop, and want you to make something that'll last them a long ass time before they hear from you again. You flood them with music and they'll turn off because they'll sense it's lower quality. And they're almost always right. Great art takes a lot of time to make. It took Nas 20 years of his life to make Illmatic. Think about that for a second. Great artists take their time. They release stuff, see how it's received, study the world, update their craft, then build another (hopeful) masterpiece. The music is not background music at all. It's foreground. The audience sits there and takes in everything.

All the examples you mentioned are pop rappers who make music for casual fans. And frankly, there are other factors involved in being successful at oversaturation or not. Ja Rule flooded the market with songs and then suddenly got ja ruled. Ghostface, an act for serious listeners, flooded the market at one point in the mid 2000s after Fishscale and nearly killed his career imo. Missy at one point oversaturated herself. Missy used to take 2 years between albums. Then Get Ur Freak On came out, went nuclear, and she kept dropping stuff. Phenomenal hits... yes. But weaker albums. Sometime around the time of "Pass That Dutch" her shyt just started feeling predictable.

You can rush mediocrity and over saturate a casual audience. But we music fans are not fooled.

Man, a lot of the arguments you are making are not based on anything but assumptions and biases


You have no idea, what casual fans require. In my estimation they require good music. When the music falls off like Wayne did after C3 people were less than eager to check for him. When he was on fire, everything he dropped got played he because it was good

You don't know how long the actual process of making Illmatic took. Useless diatribe

Ja rule didn't over saturation and his constant stream of hot singles is not why he's not in demand now. He was a singles artist and the market responded as such no difference between Ja rule and Fetty wap. When the decline in quality of Ja rule singles fell off, so did he

Missy wasn't overesuation either. She was the same as Ja. they made the most of their run. Missy was a novelty. Neither of their careers were harmed by dropping a lot of music when they were relevant

You are a lazily making the assumption that if Ja and Missy would've taken more time then the music will have been better received

More time doesn't mean better music because we have no idea about what goes into these artist recording process

 

[SirBiatch]

Man, a lot of the arguments you are making are not based on anything but assumptions and biases


You have no idea, what casual fans require. In my estimation they require good music. When the music falls off like Wayne did after C3 people were less than eager to check for him. When he was on fire, everything he dropped got played he because it was good

I know what casual fans require because I'm around them all the time and I study shyt.

Lil Wayne is the king of disposable music. His fanbase in the late 2000s have already moved on. Most don't even listen to hip hop anymore. And if they do, it's not Wayne.

There is very little difference in quality between C2, C3 and Wayne's subsequent releases. His gimmick just got old. It was always from day one.

You think it has to do with quality when it's really just little kids growing up and releasing they don't care about Wayne anymore.

You don't know how long the actual process of making Illmatic took. Useless diatribe

That was lost on you.

Ja rule didn't over saturation and his constant stream of hot singles is not why he's not in demand now. He was a singles artist and the market responded as such no difference between Ja rule and Fetty wap. When the decline in quality of Ja rule singles fell off, so did he

It has very little to do with quality, and far more to do with appeal. 50 Cent was the hot new shyt. Like I said, a new gimmick arrived with marketing power and people shifted to it. Although, 50 got big off better music than Ja Rule. So the quality issue was there.

Also, if you keep releasing a constant string of music, like I said the quality is gonna drop. You can't be this naive. Quality music is not factory shyt. There are way too many intangibles.

You constantly feed the audience with the same formula and even they'll get tired of it because it'll lose appeal. That's why Kanye is smart. You think he switches up his sound because he's "a genius?" Nah. He knows that when you make gimmick music, you gotta keep changing the gimmick for his type of audience or they'll lose interest.

Missy wasn't overesuation either. She was the same as Ja. they made the most of their run. Missy was a novelty. Neither of their careers were harmed by dropping a lot of music when they were relevant

Missy may have been seen as a novelty to mainstream and less-observant hip hop fans, but her music was far from novelty. Which is why she's respected, sampled and imitated to this day. Dismissing Missy as novelty is hilarious because she made more lasting music than almost everyone on the list.

You are a lazily making the assumption that if Ja and Missy would've taken more time then the music will have been better received

More time doesn't mean better music because we have no idea about what goes into these artist recording process

You are lazy and haven't even demonstrated why oversaturation works. You've just pointed to a few easy examples without going into any depth. What was it about that oversaturation that led to better music?

Post better.

 

[CrimsonTider]

I know what casual fans require because I'm around them all the time and I study shyt.

Lil Wayne is the king of disposable music. His fanbase in the late 2000s have already moved on. Most don't even listen to hip hop anymore. And if they do, it's not Wayne.

There is very little difference in quality between C2, C3 and Wayne's subsequent releases. His gimmick just got old. It was always from day one.

You think it has to do with quality when it's really just little kids growing up and releasing they don't care about Wayne anymore.



That was lost on you.



It has very little to do with quality, and far more to do with appeal. 50 Cent was the hot new shyt. Like I said, a new gimmick arrived with marketing power and people shifted to it.

Also, if you keep releasing a constant string of music, like I said the quality is gonna drop. You can't be this naive. Quality music is not factory shyt. There are way too many intangibles.



Missy may have been seen as a novelty to mainstream and less-observant hip hop fans, but her music was far from novelty. Which is why she's respected, sampled and imitated to this day. Dismissing Missy as novelty is hilarious because she made more lasting music than almost everyone on the list.



You are lazy and haven't even demonstrated why oversaturation works. You've just pointed to a few easy examples without going into any depth. What was it about that oversaturation that led to better music?

Post better.

There is a big difference between C2 and C3 but there is no use to debating that when you have negative opinions on him.

This thread isn't about proving that over saturation leads to better music or is something that an artist should do

My point is that an artist dropping a lot of music is not oversaturation


You claim I used easy examples, No I used examples that demonstrate the premise of the thread. DROPPING A LOT MUSIC DOESNT NEGATIVELY AFFECT AN ARTIST CAREER.


Please explain the difference between Jayz dropping a lot of music ( much more than Ja rule) and Ja rule dropping a lot music

You are looking back at an artist career and using "over saturation" as why they faded. When their shelf life was only so long anyway.

If that's the case Future shouldn't have #1 scaling albums. Cole shouldn't have went plat.

Using your logic they should be less successful because of the music they dropped prior

 

[SirBiatch]

There is a big difference between C2 and C3 but there is no use to debating that when you have negative opinions on him.

There is not a huge difference and I see you already making an exit strategy.

Act like I don't like Wayne for some random, inexplicable reason which prevents me from seeing his basic-ass music for what it is.

C3 is the formula used on C2. It just got lame after C3 because obvious formulas executed at a lowest-common denominator level get jacked quick. Casual fans have the shortest attention spans in the world and have a limited understanding of what constitutes 'quality music'. Quality just means 'catchy, comfortable and others are listening to it.' Wayne was the biggest thing in the world, then Drake came through with Wayne's gimmick, flooded the market with music and Wayne was done. Drake had broader appeal because he looked like Obama in principle and made White/Black/mixed tweens feel comfortable (Let's not deflect to discussions about Drake because that's not really the point).

The point is: when you flood the market with the same formulaic drivel, very soon someone will come along and jack your trap.

Please explain the difference between Jayz dropping a lot of music ( much more than Ja rule) and Ja rule dropping a lot music

Jay-Z is a rap genius. Using him as the template is ridiculous because so few are at his level.

Jay-Z got really lucky. He was dealing with producers who were all in their respective primes and flat out dominating music. Neptunes, Timbaland... and then later with Kanye. There's only gonna be one of those kinda rappers in a generation.

To constantly release product AND uphold some sort of quality requires high talent, extraordinary access and extraordinary resources. From hiring the best producers to the best ghostwriters.

And frankly, that's why I laugh when people say Jay-Z's got multiple classics. Constant releases always water down quality of product.

If that's the case Future shouldn't have #1 scaling albums. Cole shouldn't have went plat.

Why not?

I already told you. They're lowest-common denominator nikkas and flooding the market will work for their listeners.

 

[CrimsonTider]

There is not a huge difference and I see you already making an exit strategy. C3 is the formula used on C2. It just got lame after C3 because obvious formulas executed at a lowest-common denominator level get jacked quick. Casual fans have the shortest attention spans in the world and have a limited understanding of what constitutes 'quality music'. Quality just means 'catchy and others are listening to it.' Wayne was the biggest thing in the world, then Drake came through with Wayne's gimmick, flooded the market with music and Wayne was done. Drake had broader appeal because he looked like Obama and made White/Black/mixed tweens feel comfortable (Let's not deflect to discussions about Drake because that's not really the point).

The point is: when you flood the market with the same formulaic drivel, very soon someone will come along and jack your trap.



Jay-Z is a rap genius. Using him as the template is ridiculous because so few are at his level.

Jay-Z got really lucky. He was dealing with producers who were all in their respective primes and flat out dominating music. Neptunes, Timbaland... and then later with Kanye. There's only gonna be one of those kinda rappers in a generation.

To constantly release product AND uphold some sort of quality requires high talent, extraordinary access and extraordinary resources.

And frankly, that's why I laugh when people say Jay-Z's got multiple classics. Constant releases always water down quality of product.



Why not?

I already told you. They're lowest-common denominator nikkas and flooding the market will work for their listeners.

There is nothing similar about c2 and c3. Please stop speaking on something you know nothing about


Just because you aren't fund of an artist doesn't mean they are "lowest common denominator"

There is nothing LCD about J Coles music.

Wayne always dropped a lot of music even before he had the worlds ear. So it was not a gimmick it's just what he does

I'm not exiting but if lil Wayne flooded the market then so did Jay z

 

[SirBiatch]

There is nothing similar about c2 and c3. Please stop speaking on something you know nothing about


Just because you aren't fund of an artist doesn't mean they are "lowest common denominator"

There is nothing LCD about J Coles music.

Wayne always dropped a lot of music even before he had the worlds ear. So it was not a gimmick it's just what he does

I'm not exiting but if lil Wayne flooded the market then so did Jay z

I don't even know why I'm bothering with you. You're clearly not that bright. Your posts get shorter and more basic as this goes along.

Sorry breh. I got shyt to do

 

[STFARN]

Seems like people get oversaturated with production moreso than an actual rapper

But Drake always switches the sound up

OVO we really wit tha shyts boy

 

[CrimsonTider]

Seems like people get oversaturated with production moreso than an actual rapper

But Drake always switches the sound up

OVO we really wit tha shyts boy

No, people start claiming over saturation when the music doesn't sound as good

@SirBiatch

No one was saying Ross was over saturation when black market and Renzel remixes dropped but I saw it when black dollar dropped

But black dollar was mediocre and people got it confused

 

[STFARN]

F

No, people start claiming over saturation when the music doesn't sound as good

@SirBiatch

No one was saying Ross was over saturation when black market and Renzel remixes dropped but I saw it when black dollar dropped

But black dollar was mediocre and people got it confused

fukk it as.long as i can fukk a bytch to drake or hit the gym wit a drake/weezy collab im good bytch

 

[Richard Wright]

Waiting years makes sense for radio head and arcade fire, who start from scratch. It makes no sense for people like future who start with a fruity loops library.

Radio head had a great run of like 6 projects from 97-2007, future had a great run of 7 projects from January 2015-February 2016, both great artists though

 

[It is a mystery]

No, people start claiming over saturation when the music doesn't sound as good

I don't know if I agree with everything you said but this is definitely true