Ball Handlinng and passing are not the same thing I don’t know who you acquired that “basketball knowledge” from lol ... if this is some personal definition that you are introducing here that’s your own thing.
You don't know what the hell you're talking about
ball handling
noun
1.
the control of the ball, as in
basketball or soccer, by
skillful dribbling and accurate passing.
the definition of ball handling
Even a person with basic Basketball knowledge understands this.
Westbrook leads the leauge in turnovers so if you’re quantitatively evaluating Ben’s ball handling effectiveness by how many turnovers he has per game it would seem pretty silly to then turnaround and praise a guy like Westbrook’s handle when he averages a full turnover per game more than him .... Ben averages the same amount of turnovers as John Wall who many consider to have an elite handle he averages .5 more turnovers than Lillard and Curry Ben is 6th in TOVg the latter three are 7th,10th,12th this illustrates how silly this point you’re harping on is even if we use your all encompassing definition of “ball handling” ability.
Turnovers aren't just indicative of bad "ball handling" or dribbling but also bad decision making, poor offensive execution, timing issues when passing or defensive blunders (forcing a turnover or steal & then giving the ball back to the other team) along with a host of simple errors (slipping & losing control of the ball, stepping out of bounds, etc) so using Westbrook's "ball handling" as if this is the only reason he has a large turnover ratio shows you're just a ransom casual spouting nonsense.
...On the flip side if you are not being quantitative tho and simply going off of what YOU find to be more aesthetically pleasing well with all due respect that’s something I don’t really care about ...as I said this is not the playground I don’t care about your affinity for AND1 leauge moves ...what I care about and what’s important for a point guard is does your handle prohibit you from getting wherever you need to on the court? and does it jeopardize your ability to be the main facilitator for an offense?.... this would be a resounding no on both of ends for these questions regarding Simmons ...and the numbers pretty much show that much.. so as I said his handle is fine
Good to great ball handling PG's also utilize these skills to elude defenders, set up their teammates for scoring opportunities & to gain separation in order to score or shoot a jump shot
(which the latter doesn't apply in Ben Simmons case).
This is flatly silly .... he is an all star
Goran Dragic is an all star
reserve & personally I don't put much stock in fringe All Star reserve candidates, particularly when a majority of the general public voting on All Star selections are based on popularity & not regular season performance.
his perceived “lack of handles” didn’t stop that from happening nor does it stop his ability to run his teams offense ...ironically tho Dragic is also relatively secure with the ball his 12% mark in turnover percentage is the same as Lillard who you say is an elite “ball handler” and his assist percentage is 26% to Kemba’s 27% ...so your flip flopping definition of “Ball Handling” not exclusively meaning and1 dribbling ability is put into question with this answer of course ...and I really don’t have an interest in going thru all of the julezing you’ll likely diploy to explain these inconsistencies in your logic lol
I've already debunked your senseless tirade on the matter of ball handling & turnovers in which I specifically pointed out the simple concept that turnovers don't just relate to ball handling only, so it's no need to embarrass you further.
Conversely to your second point JUST having an elite handle ...doesn’t even mean you’re an average player ..let alone an all star caliber one ... again this highlights the non effectiveness of this argument you are making against Ben ... there’s a certain benchmark for handling ability that once you meet as a PG we don’t need to continue to compare that single ability to others because frankly there’s a multitude of ways to get past a defender... your ball handlles are just one of them .. Ben’s physical stature and explosiveness offsets a lot of his need to be an AND1 dribbler in the same way Lebron gets to where he wants because of his physical attributes ....but like I said bruh .. just leave this one alone
Ben Simmons athletic ability will only take him so far & to be a great PG he will have to improve skill wise as all the PG greats have superior shooting/scoring ability and ball handling.
All you did in this particular part I quoted was talk about SCORING and how Kemba puts up points in different ways than Ben you talked about Ft shooting/jumpshooting and Kembas ability to put the scoring load on his back... you might want to re-read what you actually wrote in this section ... and I’ll again say what I told you .... for allllllllll of those so called scoring advantages you claim Kemba has over Ben ..their actual efficiency is damn near identical so again like I said this is just not that compelling of a point when we get rid of the noise ... that hero ball shyt isn’t taking the Hornets anywhere... I would say Ben’s instinctual ability to pick his spots and set up his teammates consistently is much more conducive to being an “Overall PG” than just shooting a bunch of shots.
More incessant garbage. Kemba doesn't have other offensive players to carry the scoring load like Simmons does & Kemba leads also his team in scoring & is their go to offensive player vs Simmons who has teammates like Embid & JJ Reddikk to rely on when he's incapable of scoring. So Simmons thus far in career is just a sidekick & if he were on a team like the Hornets taking Kemba's spot, his overall stat line would be much worse from an offensive and assist standpoint.
Bruh stop ... you are using PER essentially an offensive statistic to measure a players overall dimensionality LOL and then you acknowledge two sentences latter that it doesn’t even measure an entire side of the ball ...
You're just regurgitating what I clearly already stated in my previous post. PER is used to determine how effective a player is offensively & that PER isn't utilize to determine defensive efficiency.
"Bear in mind that this rating is not the final, once-and-for-all answer for a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for players such as Bruce Bowen and Trenton Hassell who are defensive specialists but don't get many blocks or steals."
Once again you're just writing long winded sentences without realizing you're simply only repeating yourself as it's already been clarified that the PER formula doesn't really utilize defensive statistics.
PER is not really for anything more than offense and not balanced offense either
Wrong!
"What PER can do, however, is summarize a player's statistical accomplishments in a single number."
John Hollinger
"PER is a single number that attempts to combine all the relevant statistical contributions a player makes. The primary goal isn’t to determine raw volume,
but rather to quantify how efficient a player is in every countable aspect of the game.
"PER is an excellent way to measure overall efficiency, particularly on the offensive end where the base statistics offer a large number of data points."
(whatever that even means to you) Wall/Westbrook have both been inefficient scoring this year but they are both top 10 in PER ...it’s just primarily about raw output with a slant towards scoring ...this is another REALLY poorly executed point that you are attempting here ....leave it alone bruh ...this entire paragraph should have been left on the cutting room floor
Wrong Again!
"It’s not a one-size-fits-all metric by any means (more on this in a little bit), but PER has traditionally done a pretty darn good job at recognizing whom the popular consensus would consider the league’s best players. Last year’s top eight for PER, in order, were Anthony Davis, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, James Harden, Chris Paul, LeBron James and Blake Griffin. One can quibble with the order they’re in and perhaps do the same as they move further down the list, but there wasn’t a single guy in last year’s top 20 who wasn’t, at minimum, one of the top offensive players in the league at their position."
The sixers have the 4th best defense in the leauge and he is a large part of that ...what in the world are you talking about he’s “crippling” them lol
So the fukk what! 4th best isn't 1st best and a high amount of personal fouls & turnovers will always cripple teams and can make a major difference in whether a team wins or not.
PG’s are generally not high on the list of PF/g largely due to the fact that they are not asked to guard players who predominantly operate closest to the basket where the most fouls occur nor do they try to protect the rim ... Ben on the other hand is asked to guard these types of individuals especially Small/Power Fowards which plays a large role when you compare his fouls to most regular PGs as he is asked to defend different kinds of assignments AND in addition to the fact that he unlike most his contemporaries protects the rim his BPG are going to be higher than your typical PG in fact he is 2nd of all PGs in BPG only behind John Wall ...that is context ... you need to understand these things before running with a bad point ... Ben Simmons being 38th in the NBA averaging 2.8 PF/g is in no way impeding the sixers Defense ...this is another really bad half baked point that you should leave alone.
While this is a fair assessment, you can't have both ways by trying to downplay Simmons overly high personal foul rate to suit your flawed arguments. A personal foul is a personal foul regardless the circumstances & you can't claim Simmons is capable of defending "Small/Power Fowards" & then try to downplay or invalidate his personal fouls because they aren't against PG's.
