Bill Simmons says he'll take Nash ahead of Iverson

[10bandz]

Lol nikkas in the thread arguing posters are white because they think a 2x MVP could be better than Iverson

a 2x MVP who didn’t even deserve one of them. Last time I checked AI won MVP right??? Same year he got to the finals right??? At 25, same age Nash was a 7/4 player right???? fukk outta here you nikkas are pathetic and don’t hang around real nikkas

 

[desjardins]

People looking at this through the Sloan Conference lens of 2020
In that era no one was really complaining or hating on AI for gunning. I recently watched a 1998 Hawks vs Sonics game on espn classic and it was comedy how dudes would run down the floor and brick a mid range shot without even setting the offense. The score was like 64-62....IN THE FOURTH QUARTER. In that context you take AI 100 times out of 100 over nash. Not even sure how it's debatable. That 9/28 shooting still would be like 25-30 points after free throws and all that. In that environment of iso ball with tougher defense that's about all you could ask for

 

[10bandz]

First time I've ever heard a good medical staff being included in a system. And Nash was good before MDA. What helped is Phoenix giving him much more responsibility, which he was always suited to handle when healthy in Dallas. Even in a secondary role in Dallas the Mavericks produced some of the best offenses in the era. If Nash were entirely unremarkable in Dallas you and others who dismiss that stretch may have some merit. But the fact that they were so good offensively with him (coincided with Nash becoming healthy in 2001) does add to his legacy.

Iverson was immediately better at an earlier age than Nash, so if you're going to argue you want to draft him based on that, I get it. But you need to understand that the opposing argument for taking Nash over Iverson is that contributes more value to balanced, contending rosters that don't rely on a single player to dominate offensive usage. Magic is the only point guard to play this game better than Nash at elevating the players around him through on ball playmaking. He would constantly push the ball down a defenses throat and force them to at choose between two terrible positions - either one of the most efficient creators to ever play the game of basketball gets an open shot, or a teammate does. Iverson is a better fit for teams that have desolate offensive talent. But these are not teams built to contend with any semblance of longevity (Sixers caught lightning in a bottle in 2001. There's a reason he never came close to the Finals again).

In 2006 when Amare was out for the season with a knee injury the Suns replaced him his minutes Kurt Thomas. Nash spent most of his time on the floor with a lineup that included Thomas, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion and Eddie House. All capable spot up shooters, but none of them were good creators or even strong offensive players when away from a great playmaker or team that encourages ball movement. Marion gets overrated when people think of his offense as anything more than efficient finishing; he was never a good isolationist or playmaker to run an offense. Nash made those lineups still elite offensively in a way that they would not be with a singular isolation force who is less good at feeding teammates around him, keeping them in rhythm, and when their own number is called they score with elite efficiency.

In general, you just need to calm down with acting like its some disrespect to Iverson to take Nash over him. He was not as good as you think he was. and Nash was better than you think he was.

I don’t need to calm down. It IS disrespect to take Nash over AI or any basketball player that didn’t take 7 years to be good or didn’t hit their prime until 30 years old. If MDA isn’t the coach Nash DOES NOT put up those stats PERIOD. Are you forgettining there’s been MANY players who’s assist numbrrs skyrocketed with MDA....Nash ain’t special he only excelled in one system at 30 years old. you nikkas are CACS OR BRAINWASHED

 

[10bandz]

People looking at this through the Sloan Conference lens of 2020
In that era no one was really complaining or hating on AI for gunning. I recently watched a 1998 Hawks vs Sonics game on espn classic and it was comedy how dudes would run down the floor and brick a mid range shot without even setting the offense. The score was like 64-62....IN THE FOURTH QUARTER. In that context you take AI 100 times out of 100 over nash. Not even sure how it's debatable. That 9/28 shooting still would be like 25-30 points after free throws and all that. In that environment of iso ball with tougher defense that's about all you could ask for

Don’t forget AI was putting up more than decent assist numbers the entire time but nikkas act like he never passed. AI would’ve averaged 8apg minimum in MDAs system he averaged 6-7apg several times in other systems

 

[desjardins]

Don’t forget AI was putting up more than decent assist numbers the entire time but nikkas act like he never passed. AI would’ve averaged 8apg minimum in MDAs system he averaged 6-7apg several times in other systems

Yea I use to always mention this when ppl said AI was a ball hog, the usual response was that he passed with 22 seconds on the shot clock or some dumb shyt. People never want to give him credit for nothing.
Those early sixers teams were trash, thats why they were getting high lotto picks like Stackhouse and AI back to back to begin with.
People really trying act like cast offs like Matt Geiger, Tyrone Hill or George Lynch are viable offenses to share the ball with in crunch times. Those dudes are classic brick a lay up type players you never want to go to when it's important. The fact AI had any assists at all with that supporting cast is kind of amazing. I'm struggling to think of one elite shooter on those teams. majority those dudes can't even create their own shot

 

[Consumed]

I don’t need to calm down. It IS disrespect to take Nash over AI or any basketball player that didn’t take 7 years to be good or didn’t hit their prime until 30 years old. If MDA isn’t the coach Nash DOES NOT put up those stats PERIOD. Are you forgettining there’s been MANY players who’s assist names skyrocketed with MDA....Nash ain’t special he only excelled in one system at 30 years old. you nikkas are CACS OR BRAINWASHED

-It didn't take Nash seven years to be good. You keep repeating things that aren't correct, despite others telling you they aren't correct.

-Nash could put up those numbers in circumstances that gave him more responsibility in the offense and allowed full reign of decision making.

-If you look at Nash in Dallas he's throwing the same quality passes as he did in Phoenix, just with increased responsibility. Felton and Lin did increase their playmaking volume, but it didn't change the problems in their games to begin with that kept them from ever being stars in this league. MDA isn't a miracle worker.

-You don't know basketball if you think Nash wasn't special. Would have to be watching the Suns with blindfold to come to that conclusion. This is what bias can do to you.

 

[Yayo Toure]

AI > Nash

Can you imagine as a GM you take Nash as the first pick in that draft? And given how un ready he was for the NBA you'd lose your job. Secondly, Iverson was an attraction. People bought tickets, sneakers, jerseys to see AI. So he made his teams more money. Thirdly, AI went to a NBA finals, Nash fumbled the bag on that on 3 different occasions because the style of basketball that inflated his stats, doesn't work in the playoffs when the pace is slower.

He's the most forgettable multiple MVP award winner ever. Karl Malone took his team to the finals twice, Nash couldn't do it once. Don't let Bill Simmons gas you up into believing his shyt.

 

[Apprentice]

a 2x MVP who didn’t even deserve one of them. Last time I checked AI won MVP right??? Same year he got to the finals right??? At 25, same age Nash was a 7/4 player right???? fukk outta here you nikkas are pathetic and don’t hang around real nikkas

Shut yo bytch ass up you emotional over a basketball conversation be a man and articulate your point without emotion

 

[Houston911]

Lmao how did Ray Allen enter this debate? Dude is a Robin through and through, you can't put him in conversation with these guys...

Nash and Iverson are similar stature, neither was much better than the other. You can't have a real conversation about Iverson without nikkas getting in their feelings, as evidenced in this thread, because he was an icon to most black kids that grew up watching him...

All the points about why you shouldn't choose either have already been presented, I'll just add this. Iverson, a superstar, played in the weakest conference and weakest era in the entire history of the NBA for pretty much his entire prime. In his prime, he led his team to:

•('99) equivalent of 46 wins, 6-seed, swept from 2nd Rd
•('00) 49 wins, 5-seed, 2nd Rd exit
•('01) 56 wins, 1-seed, L Finals
•('02) 43 wins, 6-seed, L 1st Rd
•('03) 48 wins, 4-seed, L 2nd Rd
•('04) team went 19-29 (.396) with him, 14-20 (.412) without him, missed playoffs
•('05) 43 wins, 7-seed, L 1st Rd
•('06) 38 wins, missed playoffs

Iverson was an inefficient Kyrie, before there was a Kyrie. That '01 year was lightning in a bottle, he never elevated a team to the ECF again, remember, in the weakest era of basketball history. He was excitement and captivating but that '01 run was a one-off...

Conversely, Nash was an elite point for two of the best offensive coaches of all time. I don't have an issue with an assertion Nash was a system player, but I think you then have to point out Nash's adaptability and ease of fitting pieces around him. His prime started later than Iverson's, but also lasted longer...

Ultimately they are in the same class of greatness. Like someone up thread mentioned, some of yall gotta stop acting like hoes because someone prefers a different HOFer. They were both great players. I think Nash was slightly better, but I grew up idolizing Iverson because well, that's what all black kids did growing up in the 00s, pretty much...

you can’t have a “real conversation about both” because 75 percent of this board did not watch nash until dantoni so they are unaware of that being the sole reason he was ever considered a superstar

they don’t remember mike Bibby vs Steve nash being a debate

they don’t remember the “Marbury owns Steve nash”

they don’t remember the “should Dallas give the keys to nick van exel”

put Allen iverson in a system where teams are forced to either defend him on an island, or help and leave shooters and rim runners open when the league has not evolved with personnel to defend it and see what happens

put nash in a system where his teammates can’t catch the ball or hit shots and see what happens

Anyone following basketball closely before 2005 knows that this thread is disrespectful to iverson

look at the way Isaiah Thomas Gary Payton etc react on open court when nash is brought up. they openly call him a beneficiary of a system and would laugh at this nonsense

 

[Bledswole]

Man let’s be real Iverson was good but when you get older and understand the game like you supposed to dude is a tad bit overrated

 

[phillycavsfan]

I disagree, but that's not all that outlandish.

 

[murksiderock]

you can’t have a “real conversation about both” because 75 percent of this board did not watch nash until dantoni so they are unaware of that being the sole reason he was ever considered a superstar

they don’t remember mike Bibby vs Steve nash being a debate

they don’t remember the “Marbury owns Steve nash”

they don’t remember the “should Dallas give the keys to nick van exel”

put Allen iverson in a system where teams are forced to either defend him on an island, or help and leave shooters and rim runners open when the league has not evolved with personnel to defend it and see what happens

put nash in a system where his teammates can’t catch the ball or hit shots and see what happens

Anyone following basketball closely before 2005 knows that this thread is disrespectful to iverson

look at the way Isaiah Thomas Gary Payton etc react on open court when nash is brought up. they openly call him a beneficiary of a system and would laugh at this nonsense

I don't have a problem with these points, but you gotta then say Nash did it for two systems under two coaches. We can play the "if" game with any player who ever lived ("if" Nash hadn't had this, "if" AI had that)...

All the points already been made for and against both. I think my only disagreement is the idea that it should be disrespectful to Iverson to compare him to Nash. They in the same realm, and I don't have a problem which one either picks. It ain't disrespectful to either one...

 

[Bledswole]

I don't have a problem with these points, but you gotta then say Nash did it for two systems under two coaches. We can play the "if" game with any player who ever lived ("if" Nash hadn't had this, "if" AI had that)...

All the points already been made for and against both. I think my only disagreement is the idea that it should be disrespectful to Iverson to compare him to Nash. They in the same realm, and I don't have a problem which one either picks. It ain't disrespectful to either one...

I tell dudes that all the time! Can’t play the if game you can do that for ANYONE and either boost their career or take away from it,if it ain’t happen it don’t count period!

And dudes acting like D’Antoni made Nash! D’Antoni system ain’t work until Nash it was his second head coaching job. So who made who??? Nash was still getting 17&8 out in Dallas! Let’s not get it twisted!

 

[The_Third_Man]

People looking at this through the Sloan Conference lens of 2020
In that era no one was really complaining or hating on AI for gunning. I recently watched a 1998 Hawks vs Sonics game on espn classic and it was comedy how dudes would run down the floor and brick a mid range shot without even setting the offense. The score was like 64-62....IN THE FOURTH QUARTER. In that context you take AI 100 times out of 100 over nash. Not even sure how it's debatable. That 9/28 shooting still would be like 25-30 points after free throws and all that. In that environment of iso ball with tougher defense that's about all you could ask for

not true at all. I know that because I'm huge AI fan and I was defending him a lot in sohh back in the day. His inefficiency and score-first mentality (not to mention his drama) were always brought up. they blamed AI when Stackhouse Larry Hughes got traded.

AI was definitely one of the most polarizing figures off all-time. the same shyt that's being said about Westbrook nowadays, was said about AI and more.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Was watching this not too long ago. The bald guys shots at A.I. were steeped in




"He kept it "real"...congrats."
"He was anti-corporate...cool, I guess."

All the dog whistling I needed to read.

Thank you