Bill Simmons says he'll take Nash ahead of Iverson

[ISO]

It’s gonna be false talking points on both sides with narratives about both players.

And then you gonna have dudes pivoting to race in this discussion and talking about “real nikkas” and bullshyt barbershop banter that has nothing to do with basketball.

In a vacuum Iverson and Nash are in the same tier of player. Iverson’s detractors will talk about his inefficiency but he ain’t play with many worthwhile offensive players. His teams defended and rebounded and leaned on him heavily for offensive production. Also, he should have never been playing that many damn minutes. Later in his career when he played with Carmelo and Webber his efficiency jumped.

Nash is going to be called a product of a system. Even though he was an All-Star and All-NBA player in Dallas. The fact is that Nash is an All-Time great shooter and passer, he’s an offensive engine. He did benefit from the system but he also was the system. Mike D’Antoni was a nobody before Nash. D’Antoni then struggled until he got another transcendent scorer/playmaker in Harden.

A.I. was an immediate star while Nash was a late bloomer. Nash was a late bloomer because he ain’t get the keys. He was drafted to a team with Sam Cassell, Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd. Nash went to a small college and didn’t have that reputation he also had injuries early in his career. The talent was obviously always there though. Players aren’t in control of circumstances early in their careers.

On defense neither were stoppers of course, Nash was a bigger liability his defense sucked he could draw charges but that’s it. Iverson could at least use his athleticism and wingspan to be a league leader in steals he could play a team role in an elite defense the same way Steph does today. In fact I see Steph as a hybrid of Iverson and Nash.

Both All-Time great guards. Nash wasn’t a ball hog, didn’t have to be your number one option, didn’t bump heads with teammates/coaches and didn’t indulge in off the court bullshyt/wasn’t as troubled as A.I. so I say if you building a “championship” team Nash might be a better fit. Both supremely talented offensive players and very flashy.

I’ve always been a bigger Iverson fan obviously but I can be objective about this shyt.

 

[Bigblackted4]

Lol nikkas in the thread arguing posters are white because they think a 2x MVP could be better than Iverson

I get fried by my homies anytime I argue it’s close

 

[Kliq_Souf]

Nash went from playing with Dirk, Finley, and Juwan Howard to playing with Matrix, Stat, and young Joe Johnson.

AI had Aaron Mckie as a second option for a few years to freaking Kenny Thomas and Matt Harpring
to a washed Glen Robinson, a washed Kukoc, Keith Van Horn, a washed Webber... nothing seemed to work

 

[BlackAchilles]

Not really an outlandish take

 

[ISO]

Iverson was better than both. Iverson's sixers even beat Allen's Bucks

Iverson shot under 35% in that series. The Bucks were the better team. This series was also allegedly rigged and one of the most controversial of the Donaghy era.
Milwaukee Bucks: Scott Williams’ legend was further forged in conspiracy

Ray Allen still remembers, questions controversial Bucks-76ers series | Sporting News

 

[OG Talk]

I’m taking Nash over Iverson 10 times out of 10

You not winning shyt with either of as your best player.

So it all comes down to what you prefer aesthetically

 

[10bandz]

First off @ISO if you wanna take a shot at me than tag me instead of subbing like a hoe, as if my whole argument in this thread as been about race or barbershop shyt


Secondly, your entire post is fukking trash. AI and Steve Nash were NOT the same fukking tier of player. AI accomplished more with less and was better for MUCH longer than Nash so how are they the same tier?


You idiots keep saying Nash wasn’t a product of the system because he was “All-NBA” in Dallas. Stop saying that shyt like he was the fukking man in Dallas. He played 6 seasons there and was only an All Star for 2 seasons. Now how exactly is that ELITE shyt??? Sure he was a good player and borderline all star in Dallas. Now how is that elite? He averaged 7-8 dimes a game in Dallas, he wasn’t putting up elite PG numbers. The only time he was ELITE was in PHX under MDA system. Then he fell off with Terry Porter and was elite for another year or two when Gentry was running a version of MDAs system. Now compare that to AI who was ELITE HIS WHOLE CAREER with worse teammates and accomplished more and somehow they’re in the same tier????


You say Nash wasn’t given the keys. What the fukk is that supposed to mean??? He was a late bloomer cuz he didn’t the keys? THATS BULLshyt. If he’s was so damn good and in the same tier as AI, wouldn’t he have TOOK the keys? Not in his rookie or 2nd season, but by his 4th season he wasn’t even a full time starter? Was Sam Cassell, Kevin Johnson, or Jason Kidd preventing Steve from starting in his 4th season? NO, Nash lost the starting job battle to ROBERT PACK. And the only reason Nash had the starting job in his 3rd season (first in Dallas) is because Pack didn’t play until February that season.


Allen Iverson was elite his whole career on every team he was on. AI didn’t need to wait until he was 27 to ball. AI didnt need to battle Robert Pack for starting spots in his 4th season. How the fukk is someone who dominates at 21 years old on the same level as a late bloomer who peaked at fukking 30 under a specific system?


Prime Nash or any version of nash would NOT take the 01 Sixers to the Finals. No version of AI would have trouble “getting the keys” in Dallas. PERIOD.

Say what you want about MDA the fact is he inflated the assist numbers of many players and Steve Nash is one of them. Nash was definitely the perfect player for his system, a match made in heaven. That doesn’t change the fact Nash was never elite in any other system like real superstars do.


Steve Nash was a good/borderline all star player who became great in MDA’s system. To even put him on AI’s level is fukking pathetic. And you can mock the “real nikkas” barbershop thing all you want but that’s a lot better than having cacified opinions on sports. That’s a lot better than being black and caping for a cac who took 7 years to blow up as if any black player would get the same pass. The only people cosigning Nash are CACS and a certain stanbase that has dug themselves a hole with the efficiency stats shyt. And I love how you say you can be objective, notice how the only guys who gotta tell people they’re being objective are guys of a certain stanbase? You’re not being objective at all, you’re propping up Nash and putting down AI because that efficiency stats narrative is all you sucker nikkas got.

If you would draft Nash instead of AI in 96 you don’t know shyt. If you think it’s a toss up you don’t know shyt.

Every single week you lame ass “cacfied” wanna be basketball expert nikkas expose yourselves and everyone on this forum can see it. Everyone.

 

[10bandz]

You not winning shyt with either of as your best player.

So it all comes down to what you prefer aesthetically

I mean just because you not winning shyt with either doesn’t mean they are the same tier of baller. And what AI did in the 01 Finals Game 1 Nash could never do simple as that

 

[OneManGang]

AI disrespect never ceases to amaze and annoy me

 

[10bandz]

AI disrespect never ceases to amaze and annoy me

this forum is an alternate reality bro imagine drafting Nash over AI in 96

shyt is mind boggling this forum is an alternate reality.

 

[Houston911]

Nash went from playing with Dirk, Finley, and Juwan Howard to playing with Matrix, Stat, and young Joe Johnson.

AI had Aaron Mckie as a second option for a few years to freaking Kenny Thomas and Matt Harpring
to a washed Glen Robinson, a washed Kukoc, Keith Van Horn, a washed Webber... nothing seemed to work

These guys lol

 

[killacal]

It is.

Steve ain't better than AI... Like not even close. Those 6ixers teams would've been in the lottery with Nash.

Nash exploded when the league fully instituted freedom of movement.

just like curry

 

[ISO]

First off @ISO if you wanna take a shot at me than tag me instead of subbing like a hoe, as if my whole argument in this thread as been about race or barbershop shyt


Secondly, your entire post is fukking trash. AI and Steve Nash were NOT the same fukking tier of player. AI accomplished more with less and was better for MUCH longer than Nash so how are they the same tier?


You idiots keep saying Nash wasn’t a product of the system because he was “All-NBA” in Dallas. Stop saying that shyt like he was the fukking man in Dallas. He played 6 seasons there and was only an All Star for 2 seasons. Now how exactly is that ELITE shyt??? Sure he was a good player and borderline all star in Dallas. Now how is that elite? He averaged 7-8 dimes a game in Dallas, he wasn’t putting up elite PG numbers. The only time he was ELITE was in PHX under MDA system. Then he fell off with Terry Porter and was elite for another year or two when Gentry was running a version of MDAs system. Now compare that to AI who was ELITE HIS WHOLE CAREER with worse teammates and accomplished more and somehow they’re in the same tier????


You say Nash wasn’t given the keys. What the fukk is that supposed to mean??? He was a late bloomer cuz he didn’t the keys? THATS BULLshyt. If he’s was so damn good and in the same tier as AI, wouldn’t he have TOOK the keys? Not in his rookie or 2nd season, but by his 4th season he wasn’t even a full time starter? Was Sam Cassell, Kevin Johnson, or Jason Kidd preventing Steve from starting in his 4th season? NO, Nash lost the starting job battle to ROBERT PACK. And the only reason Nash had the starting job in his 3rd season (first in Dallas) is because Pack didn’t play until February that season.


Allen Iverson was elite his whole career on every team he was on. AI didn’t need to wait until he was 27 to ball. AI didnt need to battle Robert Pack for starting spots in his 4th season. How the fukk is someone who dominates at 21 years old on the same level as a late bloomer who peaked at fukking 30 under a specific system?


Prime Nash or any version of nash would NOT take the 01 Sixers to the Finals. No version of AI would have trouble “getting the keys” in Dallas. PERIOD.

Say what you want about MDA the fact is he inflated the assist numbers of many players and Steve Nash is one of them. Nash was definitely the perfect player for his system, a match made in heaven. That doesn’t change the fact Nash was never elite in any other system like real superstars do.


Steve Nash was a good/borderline all star player who became great in MDA’s system. To even put him on AI’s level is fukking pathetic. And you can mock the “real nikkas” barbershop thing all you want but that’s a lot better than having cacified opinions on sports. That’s a lot better than being black and caping for a cac who took 7 years to blow up as if any black player would get the same pass. The only people cosigning Nash are CACS and a certain stanbase that has dug themselves a hole with the efficiency stats shyt. And I love how you say you can be objective, notice how the only guys who gotta tell people they’re being objective are guys of a certain stanbase? You’re not being objective at all, you’re propping up Nash and putting down AI because that efficiency stats narrative is all you sucker nikkas got.

If you would draft Nash instead of AI in 96 you don’t know shyt. If you think it’s a toss up you don’t know shyt.

Every single week you lame ass “cacfied” wanna be basketball expert nikkas expose yourselves and everyone on this forum can see it. Everyone.

You too emotional bro nobody subbing you I told you that straight up in other debates and you’re not the only one in here running with the barber shop talk and making it a white vs. black thing and attacking people blackness over a ball debate. I only half read the thread fore I jumped in.

Yeah, he was a late bloomer I already told you the circumstances. He was an under-recruited Canadian prospect who played at UC-Santa Barbara, a small mid major in the early to mid-90’s, he was a 4 year player. He was drafted to the Suns and was under used and undervalued and stuck behind vets Jason Kidd, Sam Cassell, Kevin Johnson. Robert Pack was also a veteran, Nash was young and unproven. It’s politics and circumstances in the game that have held back many. Iverson was a stand out and a higher level prospect and was drafted to be the man from day one.

D’Antoni has only flourished with Nash and Harden. He was a nobody before Nash. Nash is an All-Time great shooter and passer. It’s clear as day off not stats but the eye test as well. Nash had a lot of offensive impact beyond numbers. Them last 2-3 years in Dallas it clicked for him (he was All-Star and All-NBA) and with more usage and higher pace Nash broke out further in Phoenix.

Again this is your problem you get too emotional you hinting at some Bron stan shyt too now? Ur sick b.

Please tell me what shots I took at Iverson? I love A.I., I specifically told y’all the efficiency shyt is overstated and ignores circumstances. The point of my post was to dispel narratives against both.

“That’s a lot better than being black and caping for a cac who took 7 years to blow up as if any black player would get the same pass.”

What are you even talking about? What pass? Plenty of great black players were late bloomers. You can argue Curry was a late bloomer. Gary Payton didn’t make his first All-Star until he was 25. Kemba didn’t make his first All-Star team until 26. Kyle Lowry didn’t make it until he was 28. Kobe had to wait like 4 years to break out. Chauncey Billups didn’t make his first All-Star team until he was 29. He was a journeyman until he got to Detroit. Same goes for Ben Wallace.

The facts is if you list they accolades Nash and A.I. is in the same tier of player. Nash is a HoF’er. He had influence in the game as well got sons in the league. Give credit. Lakers fans don’t fukk with Nash because he stole one of Kobe’s MVP’s and he flopped when y’all made that Big 4.

If A.I. and Nash had the same college careers and were the same prospects and were coming out in the 2020 NBA draft, A.I. would be drafted first.

Still, they’re in the same tier of player. How are they not? You can’t just say well Nash only blew up because of D’Antoni. The game is the game.

 

[Sadbrownsfan]

Hard to rank Nash. He was a great player that found himself in the perfect place at the perfect time. It bumps his play/production up a few levels and it’s hard to tell where he really sits.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

A.I. was the more talented player but he was inefficient and shot too much. It was horrible. I didn’t like watching that Sixer team in 2001 who wants to see this lil nikka go 9/30 every night. Can you imagine playing with that dude

Ninja have you heard players talk about Allen Iverson