#BlackLivesMatter Activists Plan to Disrupt Hillary Clinton Event

Jello Biafra

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:beli: that nikka a plant. Hillary just so happens to get confronted by the only mumble mouthed BLM activist in America? :leostare: Isn't it interesting that he respectfully approached Hillary while perfectly setting her up to give a response that allows her to play to both white liberals (who hate to be considered personally culpable for their racism), independents (who are getting sick of the BLM movement antics). Isn't it interesting how she disparages moral conviction when she has the most to lose if a candidate's moral record is on the table? Isn't it interesting how Hillary is being universally praised for how she passed the black issues test with flying colours when in reality she has a terrible track record with black issues? How she has the audacity to talk about changing systems when she was one of the main supporters of the largest systemic problem is beyond me.
I am not attacking you or anything but I keep seeing similar posts like yours about Hillary and I am curious as to just what policies you are speaking on that she voted for/supported? If it's stuff that happened when she was First Lady then that is not really fair to blame her for because no First Lady is going to be publicly opposed to her husband's policies and shouldn't be held accountable for them either as if they are her record.
When Michelle Obama decides to run for office (and she will) I doubt she would want to be blamed for Barack raining indiscriminate robotic death from the sky down on unsuspecting Arab citizens.
She actually has a voting record to hold her accountable for that has more than enough stuff on it to criticize without hanging all Bill's decisions on her too.
It especially comes off as incredulous when she gets lambasted harder for things she had no legislative hand in while Joe Biden gets lauded in this forum and he actually was knee deep in the muck with Bill Clinton in a lot of the shyttier policies that fukked over minorities in this country.
 

King Kreole

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I am not attacking you or anything but I keep seeing similar posts like yours about Hillary and I am curious as to just what policies you are speaking on that she voted for/supported? If it's stuff that happened when she was First Lady then that is not really fair to blame her for because no First Lady is going to be publicly opposed to her husband's policies and shouldn't be held accountable for them either as if they are her record.
When Michelle Obama decides to run for office (and she will) I doubt she would want to be blamed for Barack raining indiscriminate robotic death from the sky down on unsuspecting Arab citizens.
She actually has a voting record to hold her accountable for that has more than enough stuff on it to criticize without hanging all Bill's decisions on her too.
It especially comes off as incredulous when she gets lambasted harder for things she had no legislative hand in while Joe Biden gets lauded in this forum and he actually was knee deep in the muck with Bill Clinton in a lot of the shyttier policies that fukked over minorities in this country.
Clinton was probably the most politically involved First Lady in US history. Remember, they called the Clinton Health Care Plan of 1993 "Hillarycare". As the video pointed out, she actively lobbied in favour of Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act. She also used her level of involvement as FLOTUS as a qualification in both her candidacy for Senator and now for President. You can't be as politically involved as she was then back away when faced with your own hypocrisy. Michelle Obama isn't out there publicly lobbying for increased drone strikes, and if she was, she should be held accountable for that. And it's not just black issues, she's gonna have to answer for this:

I'm not buying that she had some great moral epiphany in the past 10 years. She was 57 years old, old enough to know better. The issue is her flip-flopping and moral equivocation.
 

Jello Biafra

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Clinton was probably the most politically involved First Lady in US history. Remember, they called the Clinton Health Care Plan of 1993 "Hillarycare". As the video pointed out, she actively lobbied in favour of Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act. She also used her level of involvement as FLOTUS as a qualification in both her candidacy for Senator and now for President. You can't be as politically involved as she was then back away when faced with your own hypocrisy. Michelle Obama isn't out there publicly lobbying for increased drone strikes, and if she was, she should be held accountable for that. And it's not just black issues, she's gonna have to answer for this:

I'm not buying that she had some great moral epiphany in the past 10 years. She was 57 years old, old enough to know better. The issue is her flip-flopping and moral equivocation.

She rode for her husband when he was president...I can't hang her with his record any more than I can give her credit for it regardless of what she may want.

And that video means jack shyt. Most Dems said the same thing including Barack Obama and Joe Biden. She took the politically expedient route of championing "traditional marriage" while being in support of civil unions for homosexuals. That was par for the course for every middle of the road Democrat in the early to mid 2000s.
My main issue here is that there seems to be this disconnect in this forum where Hillary Clinton's flaws as a politician are magnified and exaggerated to ridiculous degrees while other pols who are just as morally equivocal and wishy washy are being rode for like they are not just as shytty as she is.
As a pol and as a president she'd be no worse than Barack Obama has been or Joe Biden/Al Gore/Martin O'Malley would be. If you have voted for or see yourself voting for in the future any of those dudes then you should be perfectly fine with Hillary.
At least with Bernie there is a marked difference between the two candidates but other than that hating on her and being a fanboy for anyone not named Sanders/Liz Warren/Russ Feingold just strikes me as a bit hypocritical.
 

King Kreole

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She rode for her husband when he was president...I can't hang her with his record any more than I can give her credit for it regardless of what she may want.

And that video means jack shyt. Most Dems said the same thing including Barack Obama and Joe Biden. She took the politically expedient route of championing "traditional marriage" while being in support of civil unions for homosexuals. That was par for the course for every middle of the road Democrat in the early to mid 2000s.
My main issue here is that there seems to be this disconnect in this forum where Hillary Clinton's flaws as a politician are magnified and exaggerated to ridiculous degrees while other pols who are just as morally equivocal and wishy washy are being rode for like they are not just as shytty as she is.
As a pol and as a president she'd be no worse than Barack Obama has been or Joe Biden/Al Gore/Martin O'Malley would be. If you have voted for or see yourself voting for in the future any of those dudes then you should be perfectly fine with Hillary.
At least with Bernie there is a marked difference between the two candidates but other than that hating on her and being a fanboy for anyone not named Sanders/Liz Warren/Russ Feingold just strikes me as a bit hypocritical.

This isn't about pinning her with Bill's decisions, it's about her being a grown woman and actively supporting policies in a politically influential way. I don't care if that's her husband, she had the right to make up her own mind. If she wanted to be alderman of bumfukk city, then whatever. But she wants to be President of the United States. She's not even trying to disavow her past actions either, she admits it. She didn't say ":whoa: those were Bill's decisions, not mine" because she knows a lot of her legacy and credibility was built on her work as FLOTUS.

The gay marriage video means a lot because it shows she's a flip-flopper. When you run for President, you don't get passes for stances you took only 10 years ago, especially if they're moral issues. If it was a small policy issue, then sure, situations change so flip-flopping isn't a mortal sin. But on whether gay people should be allowed to get married? :francis:. One of the main wedges between Obama and Hillary in the 2008 Dem Primary was that Hillary supported the Iraq war and Barack didn't. This is worse than that. When they start running that video come election time, what is she gonna say? ":dame: I changed"? :francis:. This is especially bad for Clinton because the presence of Bernie Sanders provides a stark contrast in moral fortitude. Not to say that he's perfect, but Clinton is probably the most insincere frontrunning candidate in a long time. She believes whatever she needs to believe to get elected and seems to be pretty devoid of scruples. Politicians are usually slimy but the Clintons takes the cake, and I haven't even gotten to the Arkansas fukkery.
 

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This isn't about pinning her with Bill's decisions, it's about her being a grown woman and actively supporting policies in a politically influential way. I don't care if that's her husband, she had the right to make up her own mind. If she wanted to be alderman of bumfukk city, then whatever. But she wants to be President of the United States. She's not even trying to disavow her past actions either, she admits it. She didn't say ":whoa: those were Bill's decisions, not mine" because she knows a lot of her legacy and credibility was built on her work as FLOTUS.

The gay marriage video means a lot because it shows she's a flip-flopper. When you run for President, you don't get passes for stances you took only 10 years ago, especially if they're moral issues. If it was a small policy issue, then sure, situations change so flip-flopping isn't a mortal sin. But on whether gay people should be allowed to get married? :francis:. One of the main wedges between Obama and Hillary in the 2008 Dem Primary was that Hillary supported the Iraq war and Barack didn't. This is worse than that. When they start running that video come election time, what is she gonna say? ":dame: I changed"? :francis:. This is especially bad for Clinton because the presence of Bernie Sanders provides a stark contrast in moral fortitude. Not to say that he's perfect, but Clinton is probably the most insincere frontrunning candidate in a long time. She believes whatever she needs to believe to get elected and seems to be pretty devoid of scruples. Politicians are usually slimy but the Clintons takes the cake, and I haven't even gotten to the Arkansas fukkery.
She has already been challenged on her prior stance on gay marriage though. How that is going to become some big deal when the majority of Dems have gone through the same progression and seem to be unscathed by it? Obama was running around with ex-Gays and anti-gay preachers in 2008. He came out and said he "evolved" on the issue. So did Joe Biden. The playbook for changing positions on the issue of gay marriage is already there for her to use as a blueprint. And that vid existed and was trotted out years ago but Clinton's support among the gay Dem voters never took a major hit.
And it is naive to point to Hillary Clinton as this anomaly as far as crass politicians go. She is just like the rest of them with the only difference being she has been on the scene at the highest levels longer than most other people running for president so she has had more attacks thrown at her than the rest of them. But they all are self-absorbed egomaniacs whose number one mission is to be elected at all costs.
Against Sanders there is some contrast (and even that is negligible if you take a look at their voting records and how they line up when compared) but remove Sanders from the equation and Hillary is just like every other Dem pol that gets a fraction of the scorn she gets from people who proclaim to be progressives.
 

King Kreole

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She has already been challenged on her prior stance on gay marriage though. How that is going to become some big deal when the majority of Dems have gone through the same progression and seem to be unscathed by it? Obama was running around with ex-Gays and anti-gay preachers in 2008. He came out and said he "evolved" on the issue. So did Joe Biden. The playbook for changing positions on the issue of gay marriage is already there for her to use as a blueprint. And that vid existed and was trotted out years ago but Clinton's support among the gay Dem voters never took a major hit.
And it is naive to point to Hillary Clinton as this anomaly as far as crass politicians go. She is just like the rest of them with the only difference being she has been on the scene at the highest levels longer than most other people running for president so she has had more attacks thrown at her than the rest of them. But they all are self-absorbed egomaniacs whose number one mission is to be elected at all costs.
Against Sanders there is some contrast (and even that is negligible if you take a look at their voting records and how they line up when compared) but remove Sanders from the equation and Hillary is just like every other Dem pol that gets a fraction of the scorn she gets from people who proclaim to be progressives.
- She hasn't been challenged on a national election level. It wasn't a big problem for Obama because the other candidates had the same stance, but Bernie Sanders was pro gay rights for 40 years. What the hell is Hillary going to say to that? "I evolved on whether gays should be given fundamental human rights and black should be thrown into the bowls of institutional racism in the past few years :skip:" Bernie Sanders marched on Washington in '63 and participated in sit ins. Hillary has no real civil rights credibility and championed one of the biggest institutional problems w/r/t civil rights. Bernie Sanders was calling for gay rights since the 70s. Hillary is on tape saying marriage is between a man and a woman only 10 years ago while. The disparity couldn't be clearer. She's been on the scene for a long time but her real opinions only came out in the past few years? :martin:

- Hillary isn't an anomaly in terms of being crass, and yes, most politicians are self-absorbed egomaniacs, but she really is the most Nixonian of them all. Her paranoia is only surpassed by her thirst for power and duplicity. Her opinions and beliefs are are pegged to the polls. With this email scandal picking up steam, she's going to be such an easy mark. What does Hilary actually believe in? She was against gay marriage before it became expedient for her to be pro gay marriage. She was pro Industrial Prison Complex before it became expedient for her to be against the Prison Industrial Complex. I'm having a hard time imaging how she's even going to campaign. "Forget everything I did in my past, these are my real views now :skip:". I can only imagine when they start hitting her with this
Vd6ilbl.png
 

Jello Biafra

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- She hasn't been challenged on a national election level. It wasn't a big problem for Obama because the other candidates had the same stance, but Bernie Sanders was pro gay rights for 40 years. What the hell is Hillary going to say to that? "I evolved on whether gays should be given fundamental human rights and black should be thrown into the bowls of institutional racism in the past few years :skip:" Bernie Sanders marched on Washington in '63 and participated in sit ins. Hillary has no real civil rights credibility and championed one of the biggest institutional problems w/r/t civil rights. Bernie Sanders was calling for gay rights since the 70s. Hillary is on tape saying marriage is between a man and a woman only 10 years ago while. The disparity couldn't be clearer. She's been on the scene for a long time but her real opinions only came out in the past few years? :martin:

- Hillary isn't an anomaly in terms of being crass, and yes, most politicians are self-absorbed egomaniacs, but she really is the most Nixonian of them all. Her paranoia is only surpassed by her thirst for power and duplicity. Her opinions and beliefs are are pegged to the polls. With this email scandal picking up steam, she's going to be such an easy mark. What does Hilary actually believe in? She was against gay marriage before it became expedient for her to be pro gay marriage. She was pro Industrial Prison Complex before it became expedient for her to be against the Prison Industrial Complex. I'm having a hard time imaging how she's even going to campaign. "Forget everything I did in my past, these are my real views now :skip:"
While Bernie has the consistency argument down I really don't see her changing (or "evolving" as pols like to call it) on gay marriage as being that big a deal.
She is on the record as voting against a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage; she is all for gay marriage now, and during her time as SoS she gave all married gay employees the same benefits as their heterosexual counterparts in a move that was independent of anything being done by the Obama admin at the time.
On gay stuff I don't see Hillary getting hammered at all because its not like she is going to become president and make gay marriage illegal or anything.

And her views on the Prison Industrial Complex (which I still think you are conflating greatly with her husband's) returns us to my initial point...she is castigated for her stances on these issues while passes are being handed out to people like Joe Biden who are far more complicit than Hillary since Joe actually wrote and sponsored legislation that got turned into awful laws. Hillary and Bernie Sanders are different political animals but Hillary and someone like Joe Biden are pretty much the same shade of a$$hole.
 

King Kreole

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While Bernie has the consistency argument down I really don't see her changing (or "evolving" as pols like to call it) on gay marriage as being that big a deal.
She is on the record as voting against a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage; she is all for gay marriage now, and during her time as SoS she gave all married gay employees the same benefits as their heterosexual counterparts in a move that was independent of anything being done by the Obama admin at the time.
On gay stuff I don't see Hillary getting hammered at all because its not like she is going to become president and make gay marriage illegal or anything.
If her political career started 5 years ago then sure, there would be no problem and her record for gay rights would be great. It's really that video that I'm seeing being the issue. It's a great piece of political currency for any Clinton opponent. It's one thing to know she was against gay marriage, but to have a video of her explicitly defining marriage as between a man and a woman is like "Read my lips, no new taxes" level. She can survive it, but I think it could be very harmful to her if utilized properly by her opponents. It's not that she'll repeal anything, it's that it speaks to her lack of moral conviction.

And her views on the Prison Industrial Complex (which I still think you are conflating greatly with her husband's) returns us to my initial point...she is castigated for her stances on these issues while passes are being handed out to people like Joe Biden who are far more complicit than Hillary since Joe actually wrote and sponsored legislation that got turned into awful laws. Hillary and Bernie Sanders are different political animals but Hillary and someone like Joe Biden are pretty much the same shade of a$$hole.

Bill and Hillary aren't the same person, but they're uniquely conjoined. They have supported each other and have used each other to bolster their political credibility. She just has no credibility on the issue of mass incarceration when she actively lobbied for it and was a key part of an administration that signed it into law. It wasn't her bill and she wasn't the president who signed it in, but she was a large supporter of it. It's the same as with the Iraq war, she didn't start it but she had to answer for her support of it. Biden isn't getting a pass per se, he's just not in the race (yet). If he does enter, he will (should) have to answer for his support as well. Hillary and Biden are probably the same shade of a$$hole, but Biden is a far superior politician and doesn't have a big scandal above his head, making him a far superior candidate in my eyes. Biden is adept at coming off as affable and avuncular whereas Hillary comes off as slimy and pretty untrustworthy in my opinion.
 

King Kreole

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I mean, this is just very ugly.

Hillary Clinton Is Suddenly Interested in Criminal Justice Reform

For critics who have long argued that our criminal justice system puts too many people behind bars for too long, Clinton's words of outrage were welcome. But they were also hard to take seriously given her history on this issue. While condemning overincarceration, she glided over her own role in promoting it and exaggerated her efforts to correct it. She referred only obliquely to the war on drugs, which has played an important role in sending nonviolent offenders to prison. And three decades after the prison population began the dramatic climb that she now considers shameful, Clinton offered almost no specific ideas for reversing it, which makes her look like a dilettante compared to politicians in both major parties who have given the issue serious thought.

As first lady in the 1990s, Clinton was a cheerleader for the "tough on crime" policies that produced the "era of mass incarceration" she now condemns. "We need more police," she said in a 1994 speech. "We need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders. The 'three strikes and you're out' for violent offenders has to be part of the plan. We need more prisons to keep violent offenders for as long as it takes to keep them off the streets." The Clinton administration gave us all that and more, bragging about building more prisons, locking up more people (including nonviolent offenders) for longer stretches, opposing parole, expanding the death penalty, putting more cops on the street, and implementing a "comprehensive anti-drug strategy."

...

Clinton's position on her husband's crime policies—that they were appropriate back then but maybe went a little overboard—rankles activists who were resisting the war on drugs when Bill Clinton was escalating it. Here is how Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, put it in a Huffington Post essay last week: "Even as I rejoice at this outbreak of bipartisanship on a cause to which I've devoted my life, I must admit it also brings up feelings of anger and disappointment at the failure of Hillary Clinton, and other candidates, and so many other ostensible leaders to acknowledge that they were willing and even eager proponents of the very policies that produced America's records-breaking rates of incarceration. The laws and policies we embraced back in the 1980s and 1990s, they're all saying in one way or another, were the right thing at the time—but now we just need to roll them back now that times have changed. But the drug war policies of that era were never justifiable, and the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that they did far greater harm than good. No policy that results in the highest rate of incarceration in the world, and the highest in the history of democratic nations, is justifiable. And no policy that generated such devastating consequences for African American citizens and communities can or should ever be excused as a necessary response to the drug and crime problems a generation ago."

Compounding skepticism about Hillary Clinton's enlistment in the cause of criminal justice reform is her general lack of interest in the issue during her eight years in the U.S. Senate. She does not seem to have introduced any bills in this area, although she did continue to support more cops on the street and longer prison sentences (for sex offenders and violent criminals motivated by bigotry). In her Columbia speech, she referred to "measures that I and so many others have championed to reform arbitrary mandatory minimum sentences." But the only example she cited was her cosponsorship of 2007 legislation aimed at reducing crack cocaine sentences.

...

Clinton is late to this party, and endorsing reforms backed by Republicans such as Paul, Cruz, and Lee would highlight that fact. Paul's office responded to her speech by noting that "Hillary Clinton [is] trying to undo some of the harm inflicted by the Clinton administration" and "is now emulating proposals introduced by Senator Rand Paul over the last several years." The press release cited five criminal justice bills Paul already has introduced this session, addressing mandatory minimum sentences, asset forfeiture, restoration of felons' voting rights, expungement of criminal records, and police body cameras. "We welcome her to the fight," it said.
 
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