Cato: The Libertarian Alternative

[DEAD7]

Maybe it’s because I live in the south, but I think the idea (no offense) that slavery, segregation, etc, would’ve just worked itself out here anyways (because the market wouldn’t incentivize it) to be preposterous. There are still mad places here that wouldn’t serve black people if they could get away with it.

I don’t understand how people like Ron Paul aren’t for the civil rights act.

I still feel strongly that libertarianism is a utopian philosophy that falls apart when it’s taken off paper.

This is an ad hominem, but most libertarians I’ve known are upper middle class or upper class white guys (with the exception of one Asian guy) that don’t have a ton of empathy for those less fortunate than them, and/or just don’t grasp some basic concepts about life. One of these guys told me with a straight face in a libertarian society, poor minorities in the south that didn’t like their state’s discriminatory laws could just pack up and move states, as if that was actually a realistic solution.

Paul explained that while he supports the fact that the legislation repealed the notorious Jim Crow laws, which forced racial segregation, he believes it is the government, not the people, that causes racial tensions by passing overreaching laws that institutionalize slavery and segregation. Today’s race problems, he said, result from the war on drugs, the flawed U.S. court system and the military.

“The real problem we face today is the discrimination in our court system, the war on drugs. Just think of how biased that is against the minorities,” he said. “They go into prison much way out of proportion to their numbers. They get the death penalty out of proportion with their numbers. And if you look at what minorities suffer in ordinary wars, whether there’s a draft or no draft, they suffer much out of proposition. So those are the kind of discrimination that have to be dealt with, but you don’t ever want to undermine the principle of private property and private choices in order to solve some of these problems.”






My support for Ron, was based on policy.
His sons a disgrace

 

[DEAD7]

Libertarianism is when you really really hate poor people.

False.


I live in California and let me tell you liberals here hate the poor. If you are poor stay away from this state.We have homeless people with full time jobs. Let that sink in.

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

I have friends out that way, I'm too familiar

False.


I live in California and let me tell you liberals here hate the poor. If you are poor stay away from this state.We have homeless people with full time jobs. Let that sink in.

 

[DEAD7]

Okay 4 points here :
every socialist state is either sanctioned or toppled
by foreign powers who control global capital . The model presents a
direct threat to pre-existing elites and has to not only be eliminated but
discredited and actively discouraged.

I dont believe China's Communist party was sanctioned or toppled I believe their people were starving under the tenets of socialism and it has been the acceptance of capitalism that has created the second largest economy in the world.
That said, I believe you are illustrating the fundamental weakness of socialism as a system. It hasnt been subject to any pressures that capitalism and all of its many iterations havn't... yet it has succumb.

Number 2 :
For all it's failures socialism has improved literacy rates, life expectancy, industrialization
for the masses.

You can replace socialism with capitalism and this remains true... not sure what you are getting at.

Number 3:
Why do you ignore the successful example of Libya as a socialist state ?

Why do you ignore the successful example of Norway/Finland/Switzerland/Canada as capitalist states?
To answer you though, i considered Libya a military dictatorship, socialist in name only.
Qadafi was suspected of human rights violations Not sure thats the horse you wanna ride...

Controlled capitalism is what the Chinese are doing right now but this capitalism vs socialism
debate is both redundant and stupid since the U.S. itself has Social Security and Medicare
and has implemented many socialist programs throughout history.

I dont consider safety programs, socialism... but i agree the debate is stupid. Actual socialism isnt on the table.

 

[jj23]

Nah. Billionaires that control the narrative are trying to convince people to go against their best interests.

Let's not pretend this is a global and decided issue.

Oh I see... its a superior system, but no one on the planet employs it because of evil billionaires.
Alright.


You realize their are actual socialist and communist parties in power(some in absolute power) around the world that have leaned back and now practice capitalism...
Countries That Are Considered Socialist - WorldAtlas

Please no 'thats not real socialism', my point is no one is buying what socialist are selling, and its not because rich people say so.

The market will force billionaire businessmen to behave

Claimed no one

Argue out of both sides of your mouth brehs ....

 

[DEAD7]

Argue out of both sides of your mouth brehs ....

 

[jj23]

Dismiss the influence of billionaires on how socialism is portrayed, but at the same time acknowledge even libertarians can control the behaviour of billionaires.

 

[Cynic]

I dont believe China's Communist party was sanctioned or toppled I believe their people were starving under the tenets of socialism and it has been the acceptance of capitalism that has created the second largest economy in the world.
That said, I believe you are illustrating the fundamental weakness of socialism as a system. It hasnt been subject to any pressures that capitalism and all of its many iterations havn't... yet it has succumb.

I'm pretty sure they had their hands full with the Soviets during that period...
Here is a list of US backed regime changes against socialist leaders

Spoiler

• Argentina
• 1.2Bolivia
• 1.3Brazil
• 1.4Cuba
• 1.5Chile
• 1.6Costa Rica
• 1.7Dominican Republic
• 1.8El Salvador
• 1.9Guatemala
• 1.10Haiti
• 1.11Nicaragua
• 1.12Panama
• 1.13Paraguay
• 1.14Peru
• 1.15Uruguay
• 1.16Venezuela

Add Thomas Sankara and Patrice Lumumba into that as well.

China has always had famines throughout it's history going back as as the monarchs of the Shang Dynasty
so food insecurity isn't really down to economic models but other factors such as topography.

That would be akin to saying recessions/boom and bust cycles are the fundamental weakness of capitalism

You can replace socialism with capitalism and this remains true... not sure what you are getting at.

Given the same level of economic development ...socialism offers a higher quality of life

Here is a source :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/pdf/amjph00269-0055.pdf

Why do you ignore the successful example of Norway/Finland/Switzerland/Canada as capitalist states?
To answer you though, i considered Libya a military dictatorship, socialist in name only.

Norway has a sovereign wealth fund for the benefit of the citizenry plus high taxation to fund social programs.
Is that capitalist by your libertarian view point ?

Finland fines you traffic tickets based on your % wealth... are you sure you want claim these statist countries as capitalist ?

Gaddafi nationalized resources and redistributed wealth ...if that isn't socialist what is ?

Qadafi was suspected of human rights violations Not sure thats the horse you wanna ride...

Given the human rights record of the US - I'd ease up on this talking point breh

I dont consider safety programs, socialism... but i agree the debate is stupid. Actual socialism isnt on the table.

They are at least from a libertarian perspective since "taxes are theft" used by big government to fund these programs,

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

My support for Ron, was based on policy.
His sons a disgrace

 

[DEAD7]

 

[Black Panther]

Y'all reminded me of this blog post:

Meditations On Moloch



This is just one example form that post, but the whole post is great, check it out brehs

because thinking of the system as an agent throws into relief the degree to which the system isn’t an agent.

 

[EndDomination]

Paul explained that while he supports the fact that the legislation repealed the notorious Jim Crow laws, which forced racial segregation, he believes it is the government, not the people, that causes racial tensions by passing overreaching laws that institutionalize slavery and segregation. Today’s race problems, he said, result from the war on drugs, the flawed U.S. court system and the military.

“The real problem we face today is the discrimination in our court system, the war on drugs. Just think of how biased that is against the minorities,” he said. “They go into prison much way out of proportion to their numbers. They get the death penalty out of proportion with their numbers. And if you look at what minorities suffer in ordinary wars, whether there’s a draft or no draft, they suffer much out of proposition. So those are the kind of discrimination that have to be dealt with, but you don’t ever want to undermine the principle of private property and private choices in order to solve some of these problems.”






My support for Ron, was based on policy.
His sons a disgrace

Ron Paul is under the illusion, that a purported "free market" can't reproduce institutionalized systems of bias, discrimination, and hyper-exploitation.

Capital will accumulate and simply reproduce these systems - especially when contracted exploitation lies at the root of most coerced labor contracts.

And as of right now, market conditions do "coerce."

 

[DEAD7]

Ron Paul is under the illusion, that a purported "free market" can't reproduce institutionalized systems of bias, discrimination, and hyper-exploitation.

Capital will accumulate and simply reproduce these systems - especially when contracted exploitation lies at the root of most coerced labor contracts.

And as of right now, market conditions do "coerce."

The idea is it is less oppressive than the govt. enforced systems of bias and discrimination we currently have with state intervention.
I've never heard the market referred to as perfect or the solution... market actors are simply less oppressive than state ones.