CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

[ADevilYouKhow]

When did the NRA do that?

 

[Dirty Mcdrawz]

Can you provide some evidence?

evidence of what specifically? what's your question? am i providing evidence of the nra being pro gun control until the late 1970s?

Black Panther Party | American organization

The Secret History of Guns

National Rifle Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When did the NRA do that?

misread that.

to clarify the nra never took guns away. they just supported the mulford act which was a direct response to the black panthers.

gun control =/= gun ban

fukk the nra, they had no problem with taking guns out minorities hands.

the bolded is not referring to the nra taking guns out of minorities hands but the government.

i was typing on my phone and didn't reread what i typed before hitting post.

 

[thekingsmen]

evidence of what specifically? what's your question? am i providing evidence of the nra being pro gun control until the late 1970s?

Black Panther Party | American organization

The Secret History of Guns

National Rifle Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




misread that.

to clarify the nra never took guns away. they just supported the mulford act which was a direct response to the black panthers

Yeah cause that issue was much different.

 

[thekingsmen]

You don't even have an answer.

 

[Dirty Mcdrawz]

Yeah cause that issue was much different.

i didn't mean the nra was taking guns. i edited the post you quoted to clarify what i meant.

 

[Tate]

Only way to get gun laws passed is to stress that black criminals use guns. White America trashed the New Deal rather than share it with Blacks, they'd do the same with the Second Amendment. Tides have turned on that for the moment though.

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

What is funny is that in these instances pro-gun brehs often compare the US to POORER countries. The US is the most powerful, richest, most advanced country in the world, probably in history, and we're comparing it to the Nicaraguas and the Liberias of the world? It should strictly be compared to countries with similar GDPs, Canada, GB, France, Japan, that kind of countries. French people don't pats themselves on the back because homicides are lower here than in Albania

well if we're talking GDP America would still be $7 trillion higher than number 2. there isn't much of a comparison there unless you take the whole EU into account but this is all besides the point really.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

well if we're talking GDP America would still be $7 trillion higher than number 2. there isn't much of a comparison there unless you take the whole EU into account but this is all besides the point really.

Is it still safe to say American poverty is the cause of high gun deaths when poorer countries have negligible gun deaths in comparison to population and wealth?

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

Is it still safe to say American poverty is the cause of high gun deaths when poorer countries have negligible gun deaths in comparison to population and wealth?

I don't know. I'm not going to speculate on it. I hate the gun debate to begin with.

 

[Tate]

Is it still safe to say American poverty is the cause of high gun deaths when poorer countries have negligible gun deaths in comparison to population and wealth?

Poverty, inequality, and the high concentration of guns, as well as high rates of urbanization and segregation along racial and class lines are the important differences. Our horseshyt gun culture plays a role too.

 

[ill]

It's because we are "multicultural"...... infer from that what you may, I don't even think @Ill even understands what's really being said there

What is funny is that in these instances pro-gun brehs often compare the US to POORER countries. The US is the most powerful, richest, most advanced country in the world, probably in history, and we're comparing it to the Nicaraguas and the Liberias of the world? It should strictly be compared to countries with similar GDPs, Canada, GB, France, Japan, that kind of countries. French people don't pats themselves on the back because homicides are lower here than in Albania

@ADevilYouKhow

The Geography of U.S. Gun Violence

Let me start by pointing out that the overall rate of death by gun is closely related both gun-related suicide (.80) and gun-related homicides (.83). But gun-related suicides and homicides are far less related to one another (with a correlation of .35).

It is commonly thought that gun violence is higher in bigger cities and metros. But that is not what we find. Population size is negatively associated with suicide-related gun deaths (-.46) and not significantly associated with either total gun deaths or murder by gun at the metro level. Population density is not significantly associated murder by gun and negatively and significantly associated with gun-related suicides (-.67) and the overall rate of death by gun (-.46).

Poverty is a substantial factor in gun deaths by metro, as it was in our previous state-level analysis. The percentage of a metro’s population below the poverty line is significantly associated with all three types of gun death — homicide (.45), suicide (.35), and the overall rate (.49).

Inequality has been increasing in America and is a major source of economic anxiety and tension. It is associated (.33) with murder by gun (this differs from the state level where we did not find a statistically significant correlation), but not with gun-related suicides or the overall rate of gun deaths.

Unemployment is a substantial source of economic anxiety, but we find no association between it and any category of gun death at the metro level. This is in line with our earlier finding for states. But it is at odds with Moroz’s analysis that found a close association between unemployment and gun deaths in center cities. Unemployment rates, of course, are typically much higher in center cities than states or metro areas. This is one area where we see clearly different patterns at across these three basic levels of geography.

Economic advantage plays a substantial role in moderating death by gun, at the metro level as it did for states. More affluent metros have lower rates of all forms of gun death. That said, economic advantage — measured as per capita income — plays a bigger role in moderating the overall rate of gun death (-.55) and that for gun-related suicide (-.64) than for gun-related murders (-.32).

Education plays a similar role in moderating gun death, with more highly-educated metros having lower levels of all types of gun death. The share of adults that are college grads is negatively correlated with of gun death overall (-.57), suicides (-.52), and murders (-.46).

Gun death also varies by socio-economic class. Higher levels of knowledge-based, creative class work at the metro level is associated with lower levels of all three types of gun death — overall gun deaths (-. 55), gun-related suicides (-.53), and gun-related homicides (-.39). The same pattern holds for high-tech industry. A metro’s share of high-tech industry is negatively associated with overall gun deaths (-.49), gun-related suicides (-.53), and homicides (-.32). Conversely, metros with higher shares of blue-collar working class jobs experience higher rates of all three, with positive correlations to overall gun deaths (.52), suicides (.49), and murders (.37).

 

[ill]

This would make sense if the bulk of murders were across cultural lines, but the majority of murders in the US have perps and victims of the same race and background

So "cultural conflict" is no go... and actually, the top 10 AND bottom 10 countries by murder rate are very homogeneous, or at the minimum way more so than the US.

So again I ask, why can't we compare gun crime rates of countries of varying cultural homogeneity, since it's obvious there is no correlation between cultural composition and gun crime? Again, this is a mondo gun rights (and right wing in general) red herring... something that gets thrown out by people who hear things and don't think them through :scumbag:

You can't compare them because the US is unique in its demographics and culture. Like I said before, poverty is the #1 driver of gun violence. (See above post).

Homogenous populations tend to all be on the same playing field. Swiss are all generally financially stable and they are fine with guns. Honduras is the opposite and the entire population is in conflict thus their rates are very high. But it applies to the large majority of the population. Everyone is basically on the same page. In a place like the US, different cultures means people are always at different points in their financial well being. Theres always new waves of immigrants on the come up. Everyones fighting to get a piece of the pie and get ahead. Heterogenous populations may not in themselves foster higher gun crime rates but they do contribute to the underlying issues that cause gun crimes.

 

[mbewane]

well if we're talking GDP America would still be $7 trillion higher than number 2. there isn't much of a comparison there unless you take the whole EU into account but this is all besides the point really.

Still would be a more reasonable comparison. And why not compare to all of the EU, which is more multicultural than individual EU member states? You'd still find less gun-related deaths than in the US.

@ADevilYouKhow

The Geography of U.S. Gun Violence

I'll play along. You claim poverty is the #1 driver of gun violence. I have 2 questions though.

1. Why is it that poor people in the US have easy access to guns, as opposed to poor people in France, Spain, Greece, Italy (where the mafia is heavy), GB, all countries with significant poor populations, and, in the case of France and GB, multicultural too?

2. If we believe that poverty is the #1 driver of gun violence, and that we agree (I hope we can at least agree on this) that gun violence is a worrying issue...what is being done to reduce said poverty?

 

[tmonster]

 

[ill]

Still would be a more reasonable comparison. And why not compare to all of the EU, which is more multicultural than individual EU member states? You'd still find less gun-related deaths than in the US.



I'll play along. You claim poverty is the #1 driver of gun violence. I have 2 questions though.

1. Why is it that poor people in the US have easy access to guns, as opposed to poor people in France, Spain, Greece, Italy (where the mafia is heavy), GB, all countries with significant poor populations, and, in the case of France and GB, multicultural too?

2. If we believe that poverty is the #1 driver of gun violence, and that we agree (I hope we can at least agree on this) that gun violence is a worrying issue...what is being done to reduce said poverty?

GB is a terrible example to use. Their violent crime rates skyrocketed after they banned guns. I posted the chart in this thread. Wales has the highest rates of violent crime in the developed world.

Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime. Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries

Criminal Victimization in Seventeen Industrialized Countries, Dutch Ministry of Justice, 2001

Crime has been rising since enacting a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two years after Australian gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics showed a dramatic increase in criminal activity. 32 In 2001-2002, homicides were up another 20%. 33

From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:

• Firearm-related murders were up 19%
• Armed robberies were up 69%
• Home invasions were up 21%

Some reading material
Comparing murder rates and gun ownership across countries - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org
The Geography of U.S. Gun Violence
Gun Facts | Gun Control and Crime in non-US Countries