Dr. Ellis on Michael Eric Dyson, Cornel West and the Black Cultural Crisis

[valet]

Interview with Dr. Carl Ellis (professor at Westminter Theological Seminary) where he discusses Dyson, West missing what he feels is the true cultural crisis (low achievers setting the tone in the Black community). And in his view, an outdated model.

 

[KenyaDoll]

A summary of the video:

Racism is still an issue (not nearly as much of an issue as it used to be). The bulk of the problem is a cultural crisis.

Felt that Cosby addressed the failures of the non achiever culture among us. Cosby used economic categories to identify the none achievers. He did acknowledge that maybe Cosby didn't use the right terminology, but understood where he was coming from.

He critiqued Dyson's critique that Cosby was just criticizing poor people. He felt that Dyson didn't get the message related to the culture of poverty.

He feels that while most AA, 88%, are achievers or have achiever values, a small minority lives by non achiever values. Generally, achievers set the trends and tones for everyone else; they are the leaders. However, He feels that the non achievers have become the dominant group/voice of blacks and that they sets the trends for us.


My questions:

Are the none achievers setting the tone for the Black race? Are the non-achievers the leaders in our community? If so, how did they become the voice of our race?

 

[Dada]

Yes. I've had this convo many times. I was going to type out a lot but screw it. 4/5 of us can be doing right and the 1/5 will be out front. Not only that but 2/4(out of 5) will be idolizing the 1/5.

 

[wheywhey]

My questions:

Are the none achievers setting the tone for the Black race? Are the non-achievers the leaders in our community? If so, how did they become the voice of our race?

I wouldn't call them leaders, but they do set the tone for blacks in America.

Reasons they become the voice of our race:

- In the 1960's black community activists declared a war on drugs. In the 1970s black members of Congress demanded and voted for tougher drug laws. This led to gansta rap and negative black American stereotypes being spread across the world in music, videos, and movies.

- Cable TV and social media led to reality shows and websites like World Star showing blacks at their worst. People are able to tweet the most inane comments and get mainstream media attention. Many Instagram "models" are strippers, escorts/prostitutes, and professional baby mamas and are encouraging young girls to do the same thing.

- In order to maintain membership, most black churches do not have a high standard of moral behavior, Non-achievers can easily set the tone in a particular congregation.

These people have always been around, now they just have a large platform. I personally don't associate with them or worry about their lives. They simply have values that are different from mine. I'm not going to change them and they aren't going to change me.

 

[Black Hans]

He hit the nail right on the head.

 

[acri1]

I'm kinda in the middle on this.

Dyson, West, etc. do sometimes fail to address cultural issues in the black community, which are serious. In particular the anti-academic culture we have. But I do think Dr. Ellis is underestimating racism as a factor when he says that "99% of the problems in the black community aren't because of racism".

It's more subtle than it was in the 60s, but you have drugs laws that (to a great degree) disproportionately affect black people, whites having social connections that make it much easier for them to have jobs, black being less likely to get home loans, etc. I would hardly say race isn't an issue.

 

[ltheghost]

A summary of the video:

Racism is still an issue (not nearly as much of an issue as it used to be). The bulk of the problem is a cultural crisis.

Felt that Cosby addressed the failures of the non achiever culture among us. Cosby used economic categories to identify the none achievers. He did acknowledge that maybe Cosby didn't use the right terminology, but understood where he was coming from.

He critiqued Dyson's critique that Cosby was just criticizing poor people. He felt that Dyson didn't get the message related to the culture of poverty.

He feels that while most AA, 88%, are achievers or have achiever values, a small minority lives by non achiever values. Generally, achievers set the trends and tones for everyone else; they are the leaders. However, He feels that the non achievers have become the dominant group/voice of blacks and that they sets the trends for us.


My questions:

Are the none achievers setting the tone for the Black race? Are the non-achievers the leaders in our community? If so, how did they become the voice of our race?

I think it has something to do with the constant media propping of these non-achievers on every "news" channel. It's promoting the ideal of non-achievers succeeding. Which also falls into the fallacy of the American dream. nikkas hitting the lotto, living out their dreams, and then going broke. What you don't see is the stories on the young black generation that is doing something positive...they are hit or miss. Or we prop up religious leaders who aren't qualified to run a church but somehow get a mic and speak for all of us. Even rappers...even rappers turn pastors. The real fallacy is that there is a "Black" community to begin with. We are not homogenous and if you go from North to South, the "Community" is radically different. So in the absence of any real leadership we are accepting of everything because there is no real community to be harmed.
Dudes wearing dresses. Whore worshiping. Materialism. They are all accepted in this "community"....

 

[valet]

Fast forward 22.00 to 43:37 mark. He speaks more achievers vs. non achievers. The value system, destruction of the hood, criminals, etc.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I get tired of talking about black people problems. People take whichever side lets them demonize whichever group they hate rather than addressing the whole problem. And at the end of the day its just talk talk talk. We need more action.

 

[theworldismine13]

I get tired of talking about black people problems. People take whichever side lets them demonize whichever group they hate rather than addressing the whole problem. And at the end of the day its just talk talk talk. We need more action.

No we don't need any action, we need to talk about where are culture is going, and yeah we will have to feminized certain people

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

No we don't need any action, we need to talk about where are culture is going, and yeah we will have to feminized certain people

Nothing happens w/o action.

 

[Prince Akeem]

I get tired of talking about black people problems. People take whichever side lets them demonize whichever group they hate rather than addressing the whole problem. And at the end of the day its just talk talk talk. We need more action.

Pretty fukking much.

 

[theworldismine13]

Nothing happens w/o action.

Of course, but before action we need to sit around and talk about our culture and where it's been and where it's going, that is the intelligent way to do things

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Of course, but before action we need to sit around and talk about our culture and where it's been and where it's going, that is the intelligent way to do things

Like I said we've talked enough. We know where we are, what's wrong, what we need to do. It's time to do it. Some dialog to help steer the ship is fine, but not to where it stops us from actually executing.

 

[Poitier]

Black Americans live in the White supremacist country as an underclass and that will always be our fate.