I was wrong about Devin Harris, he is booty butt cheeks but Horf is that dude.
Hawks fans, I like Smoove and he's good but Horford can be elite
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malbaker86
Gators
Horford and Howard would work together.
I spent most of my day watching Hawks and Horford games today. I will have to say that Horford is being used as if he's Z-Bo. Mainly because we don't have a PG and we play this extra passes offense that is basically some college Princeton BS.
Anyway of course, his % are down because he isn't being used to his strengths nor is it possible since we do not have a PG. Just Jannero Pargo presence had a couple decent PnR's even though Pargo is generally a below average PnR ball handler. I don't want to hear sh*t about Jeff Teague, our offense doesn't require him to create or facilitate. The lack of Joe Johnson while it's help our spacing is actually hurting Josh and Al as he attracted double teams and had a low TO rate.
I actually think Josh is better this year in terms of offensive BBIQ than last year even if the numbers say otherwise. He is making more sound decisions and he is at least looking for other options before he does something utterly stupid. He is still trying to lead fast breaks and that is an issue of course. Last year he had Joe Johnson who drew double teams. That really helped the Hawks.
Overall, everyone is being underused except for Teague, Harris and Korver. I think Josh would be better with a legit #1 option(not Joe) on offense as playing next to a true center (not Horford). I really like Atlanta's current offense for Smith, I just do not like the fit of Atlanta's offensive personnel for Smith. Smith just can't be taking the amount of shots he takes. You can't win that way and it hurts the team.
Horford is one of the most efficient players in the NBA but let's be real. He can't create his own offense. He has an excellent jumper, excellent movement skills off the ball, sets great screens and reads the screener extremely well, very athletic, he is basically Karl Malone like. His problem is he can't create his own offense. He has mixed results at best with it especially when he is going up v. Centers who can defend. He's a PF as well playing out of position. Another issue but it doesn't change the fact he is being used wrong. I still say he is the best PF in the NBA by a good margin but Atlanta isn't doing him any service masquerading Teague as a PG.
Honestly, both Josh Smith and Al Horford are All Star and All NBA type players. Atlanta is misusing them greatly. At the same time, neither are elite players given the current situation. In the right situation, maybe Josh can be elite. One where he's is used on offense but isn't expected to carry the load but one where he can run the show from the paint. He is one of the best post passers in the NBA as is Horford. Two way PF's are hard to find and the only reason why Atlanta is winning so much is because of it.
Note: It may seem like I hate Teague. I don't. He is a good player who is talented. He reminds me of Bobby Jackson who for Sacramento Kings was the best bench player in the NBA and was a top 50 NBA player in his prime. I see Teague in the range. I do so more of a starter in Teague if used like we use him unlike Jackson but neither should be starters.
Anyway of course, his % are down because he isn't being used to his strengths nor is it possible since we do not have a PG. Just Jannero Pargo presence had a couple decent PnR's even though Pargo is generally a below average PnR ball handler. I don't want to hear sh*t about Jeff Teague, our offense doesn't require him to create or facilitate. The lack of Joe Johnson while it's help our spacing is actually hurting Josh and Al as he attracted double teams and had a low TO rate.
I actually think Josh is better this year in terms of offensive BBIQ than last year even if the numbers say otherwise. He is making more sound decisions and he is at least looking for other options before he does something utterly stupid. He is still trying to lead fast breaks and that is an issue of course. Last year he had Joe Johnson who drew double teams. That really helped the Hawks.
Overall, everyone is being underused except for Teague, Harris and Korver. I think Josh would be better with a legit #1 option(not Joe) on offense as playing next to a true center (not Horford). I really like Atlanta's current offense for Smith, I just do not like the fit of Atlanta's offensive personnel for Smith. Smith just can't be taking the amount of shots he takes. You can't win that way and it hurts the team.
Horford is one of the most efficient players in the NBA but let's be real. He can't create his own offense. He has an excellent jumper, excellent movement skills off the ball, sets great screens and reads the screener extremely well, very athletic, he is basically Karl Malone like. His problem is he can't create his own offense. He has mixed results at best with it especially when he is going up v. Centers who can defend. He's a PF as well playing out of position. Another issue but it doesn't change the fact he is being used wrong. I still say he is the best PF in the NBA by a good margin but Atlanta isn't doing him any service masquerading Teague as a PG.
Honestly, both Josh Smith and Al Horford are All Star and All NBA type players. Atlanta is misusing them greatly. At the same time, neither are elite players given the current situation. In the right situation, maybe Josh can be elite. One where he's is used on offense but isn't expected to carry the load but one where he can run the show from the paint. He is one of the best post passers in the NBA as is Horford. Two way PF's are hard to find and the only reason why Atlanta is winning so much is because of it.
Note: It may seem like I hate Teague. I don't. He is a good player who is talented. He reminds me of Bobby Jackson who for Sacramento Kings was the best bench player in the NBA and was a top 50 NBA player in his prime. I see Teague in the range. I do so more of a starter in Teague if used like we use him unlike Jackson but neither should be starters.
bigmanharris
Coli Gangsta
You are delusional about Horford. All he has is that wet J. Other than that he has little game. He lacks explosiveness and lift. I was at the Bulls game and he couldn't beast on Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer.... Both of whom are better than Horford.
list of PFs > Horford
Pau
Melo
Bosh
Smoov
Dirk
Z-Bo
David Lee
Paul Milsap
Al Jefferson
Derrick Favors
Earl Clark
Blake
KG
Kevin Love
David West
feel free to add on.....
His lack of explosiveness limits him....and he has no post game outside of his mechanical bullying in the paint. If he goes to see Hakeem he could be top 5 possibly......but he ain't crafty enough like Z-Bo
How do I address a post so awful?
This has to be the most stupid thing a Hawk fan wrote. Then you have the nerves to praise Teague in another thread. I am not so sure you aren't a
He's very explosive for starters hence:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJBwbuDw1XY[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhTFVnry0yE[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbsMCWAS66g[/ame] @1:34
G*d Damn you are one stupid motherf**ker.
The only thing you said that was accurate is he is mechanical in the paint.
There isn't one PF I would take over Horford, not one. This son of a bytch said Al isn't explosive as if we are talking about Al Jefferson or something. Al is one of the most athletic bigs in the NBA from a pure perspective that he runs the floor like a gazelle, has great stamina, and he's explosiveness on offense and defense and has elite BBIQ on both sides of the court.
bigmanharris,
Don't talk on the Hawks again breh if you gonna be retarded about it. That's one of the worst posts I've ever read. Any list where Earl Clark is better than Al Horford isn't a list done by a real fan of the game.
@bigmanharris, since you are a fellow Hawk fan, I shouldn't berayed you like that, my bad breh. But in the meantime why did you say you think Horford is overrated in your opinion? I watched generally 95% percent of all Hawks games from 2003 to now. I watched Horford, Smith, Joe, and many others. Horford is by far our best player we have ever had since Nique. Smith is our 2nd best in this recent era than it's Joe who was our best offensive player we have had since Nique. You reasoning it seems is Horford is not good because you went to the Bulls game and he didn't kill Gibson and Boozer. The problem is I went to a Bulls game when MJ was with Chicago, he struggled some with Atlanta's defense which was one of the best in the league, I didn't think MJ sucked after it and say Isaiah Rider is better than Michael Jordan like you did and claim something completely false like he's not explosive like other top guards in the NBA. Sorry dog but I am calling shenanigans on your false statement.
In Atlanta coli fans we do this a lot. There was a lot of chatter from fans that Jamal Crawford is better than Joe Johnson when he was in Atlanta. I really say most fans can't see the in between in the game of Basketball. Shout-out to @Malta, @tremonthustler1 and other guys who see the game for more than the obvious stuff at times. We may disagree but I can see where you are coming from.
In Atlanta coli fans we do this a lot. There was a lot of chatter from fans that Jamal Crawford is better than Joe Johnson when he was in Atlanta. I really say most fans can't see the in between in the game of Basketball. Shout-out to @Malta, @tremonthustler1 and other guys who see the game for more than the obvious stuff at times. We may disagree but I can see where you are coming from.
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bigmanharris
Coli Gangsta
Joe Johnson >>> Crawford. Joe busted Crawfords ass to show fans what was up when they played each other too. And Joe is our best player since Dominique. Not even close with him and Al.
I didn't base my assessment off one game. I've consistently said over the past couple of years that Horford wasn't explosive. He's athletic, but not explosive. He doesn't have a quick first step. If he did have that explosion he would work these big guys he plays against. Do you ever see him jab step with a defender on him and yoke on him? Rarely if ever. He just has that automatic J and i'm cool with that. I can't see him being great. Just can't, i've watched him too many years. I once thought he could, same with Smoove, but them dudes just don't have it in them to be GREAT. To be GREAT means consistency. 16 & 10 ain't greatness. You keep comparing him to Karl Malone.....Karl was a MONSTER. 25 & 10 for 8 straight years. Al will never come close to that unless you use him in NBA Live. Al has made slight improvements from year to year, but lets not act like he doesn't have the opportunity to shine. He got the stage. He can't take off because he's very good, not great. Ok that list was overboard, but my assessment of him as a player is correct. Amare used to be explosive, no BBIQ, but he was what i'd call explosive. Al needs to call Hakeem. That lil baby hook where he gets 2 centimeters off the ground is not the move. I call it like I see it.....i'm wrong at times and I can admit that. I thought this team wouldn't be where they are, but due to Drew getting everyone to share the ball its working. Drew shoulda bossed up on Joe and told him we not running Woody's iso stuff. All he had to do was show him tape of how he could be more effective with ball movement and if he didn't comply then fukk it. If you hire me to do a job i'm gonna do it my way.
So is Al better than Josh to you?
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Joe Johnson >>> Crawford. Joe busted Crawfords ass to show fans what was up when they played each other too. And Joe is our best player since Dominique. Not even close with him and Al.
I didn't base my assessment off one game. I've consistently said over the past couple of years that Horford wasn't explosive. He's athletic, but not explosive. He doesn't have a quick first step. If he did have that explosion he would work these big guys he plays against. Do you ever see him jab step with a defender on him and yoke on him? Rarely if ever. He just has that automatic J and i'm cool with that. I can't see him being great. Just can't, i've watched him too many years. I once thought he could, same with Smoove, but them dudes just don't have it in them to be GREAT. To be GREAT means consistency. 16 & 10 ain't greatness. You keep comparing him to Karl Malone.....Karl was a MONSTER. 25 & 10 for 8 straight years. Al will never come close to that unless you use him in NBA Live. Al has made slight improvements from year to year, but lets not act like he doesn't have the opportunity to shine. He got the stage. He can't take off because he's very good, not great. Ok that list was overboard, but my assessment of him as a player is correct. Amare used to be explosive, no BBIQ, but he was what i'd call explosive. Al needs to call Hakeem. That lil baby hook where he gets 2 centimeters off the ground is not the move. I call it like I see it.....i'm wrong at times and I can admit that. I thought this team wouldn't be where they are, but due to Drew getting everyone to share the ball its working. Drew shoulda bossed up on Joe and told him we not running Woody's iso stuff. All he had to do was show him tape of how he could be more effective with ball movement and if he didn't comply then fukk it. If you hire me to do a job i'm gonna do it my way.
So is Al better than Josh to you?
Al is much better to me than Josh in the grand spectrum of things but I can see why someone would think Josh is more talent, Josh is more talented.
Al is much better than Joe to me as well. Much better. I liked Joe, all around player. Our best guard since I can remember in Atlanta. Maybe since Pistol. Better than Smitty and I liked Smitty. Still one of the best post games from a guard I've seen and had a that mid range game on lock
But Joe wasn't elite at anything. Josh and Al are elite at things. Al is elite at movement, running the floor, his spot-up mid range jumper, his team defense and his BBIQ. Josh is elite at blocking shots, altering shots, off the ball defense from the paint, passing skills for a big, running the court non b/h, elite athleticism, and his stealing ability for a big on and off the ball. Both Josh and Al can do things elite. Al is more consistent but Josh is more talented. I like Joe, he can draw double teams, he has some playmaking ability but can't pass out of a double team and is slow reacting to advanced defenses at times. Joe really doesn't do anything poorly. I don't see how you can say he isn't explosive. Do you have tape to prove otherwise. I was just watching a lot of the games yesterday,
nope don't see your point. Falls on deaf ears. He has a decent first step but nope, he is not 24 year old Amare or Blake Griffin but then again, who is? David Lee is doing just fine who Horford has a quicker first step then.
Horford is not extremely skills and athletic like Kemp or Griffin? I didn't know that, the tape said that but I didn't know.
You sound like a hater
. Of course he doesn't do that. He's not that type of PF. That's like expecting Reggie Miller to do some MJ or Wade shyt. That's not in his skill-set. That's obvious. You think Earl Clark is better. You are no different than those Joe haters saying Lou Williams is a clear upgrade and using adv. statistics when Atlanta uses Joe wrong and we really can't use Lou right. Joe is a much better player as well.
Al will never be Hakeem in the post. That's not his game. He is a movement guy. So was Malone. A big part of Malone's success is based on John Stockton and their system. Every big knew it as Webber mentioned it in that Legend's roundtable and Chuck mentioned it numberous times as well. Malone had Stockton
and has Jeff "Not a PG" Teague 
That's like expecting Moss to get over a 1K receiving with Andrew Walter. So ain't gonna happen. I don't even think you understand skill-sets breh. Just my opinion based on this. Look at Malone for example breh.[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US-h15qVBCc[/ame]
This is how you run the PnR from Malone himself. Of course, it's MUCH easier when you got a PG with court vision, BBIQ, knows how to run offensive sets, passing skills and a PnR big man which are hard to find in the NBA. I can give you a couple of them. Robinson(Sac), West(Indy), Boozer, young Amare. Some guys are okay at it like Griffin, Jordan, M. Gasol, Bonner, etc. Gasol or Bonner can't move but Boozer, West, and Robinson are pretty good at it. Horford is the only one great at it sans Malone. Elite movement bigs are rare in the NBA. You can find good ones but the elite ones
. They are hard to find like elite movement guards like Reggie Miller, Rip, and Peja. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_yozMkcXFs[/ame]
I didn't mind the iso ball. It was effective when you had Jamal and Joe and Bibby getting us into sets. Smith always would kills sets by moving to the three point line but he improved on that of late. Now he just does it because our offense is drawn up that way.
I still say our biggest need is a #1 or #2 option who is all around sorry Monta Ellis or a PnR PG. I think we could use a real center as well but those are hard to come by.
What I like about this team is Josh Smith, Al Horford and Jeff Teague but I hate the same sans Horford. Teague is doing a solid job at his role but he isn't getting us where we need to be as he can't run an offense, his PnR creation is exclusively for his offense, he has poor court vision, and he's inconsistent.
All three are two way players who give you both offense and defense which is a huge plus. Teague doesn't lose you games. He doesn't win you them either. Josh can win and lose you games. Al helps you win games but he doesn't really win you games often.
Amare had average BBIQ but he was so talented and gifted that he could score 40 and 50 on any defender. Tim Duncan had issues defending him. Steve Nash liked Amare but Amare wasn't good at execution, he was great at everything talent wise. He is the only PF offensive who had the total offensive reportire. Not even Dirk had who Amare had talent and skill wise. If Amare had the BBIQ, he would have been the best ever. Still the most gifted offensive PF I've seen. Amare was great at face up, movement, shooting, and his athleticism was elite. There wasn't much Amare couldn't do offensively.
I wrote this scouting report a year ago.
Josh Smith and Al Horford.
To be honest, nothing has changed. I think he has gotten much smarter in terms of decision making but it is still a major issue for him. At least this time, his more personnel than just him being dumb. He has also proved that he's is never a legit #1 option even for a bad team because he is too good for his team to suck.
Josh Smith
Smith is one of the most talented players in the NBA. He is a supremely athletic, elite defensive player. He is our best defensive player since Mutombo. On top of that he has some solid offensive skills. He has a solid array of post moves. Smith has decent footwork in the low post. He is an up-tempo player with great ability to run the floor. Josh is a smart defensive player. He can play PF and SF. He can defend the post at PF at a solid clip. Understanding of timing of blocks and steals is second to none for Smoove only comparable to Dwight. In fact, he is a lot like Dwight on defense. Dwight just has more athletic ability, great size, has elite defensive bbiq, and a better help side defense. Has elite recovery ability when beaten on defense. Processes excellent speed for his position and runs like deer. Rarely is in foul trouble. People do not realize how discipline Smith is on defense. Clutch defender. Smith plays with a strong fire and passion for the game.
Smith has talent in bunches on offense too. He passes the ball as well as any low post player in the NBA. He has very good court vision from the post and the top of the key. Very good jumper within 15 feet. Understands where to be on offensive plays and where everyone else should be as well. He really excels in a full court offense. He is a talented rebounder by his timing and god given athletic ability. Very good playmaker. Very good hands. Strong finisher when on the move. Good second and third step. Smith definitely has an impact on the game. Smith really has room to grow in terms of being a better decision maker. He still has untapped potential.
Smith has potential to really put up great numbers for teams that aren't so good. He has limitations that prevent him to getting to that next level as a player. He has low offensive bbiq. He lacks movement in the half court when it's not called in the play. He lacks innovation when he doesn't have the ball in his hands on offense. He lacks understanding of his limitations. He does not know his limitations. He has slew feet which hinders his perimeter man defense. This not a killer for his defense. Lebron James and Dwight Howard also have slew feet but Dwight doesn’t guard perimeter guys. He mainly anchors from the low post and Lebron has so many tools and he is so stronger and his ability to recover is great he make hide it. His lack of position and size really affects his overall ability even with great talents. Smith lacks the ability to create his own offense at a very good rate. He can create his offense at a solid rate. Rarely boxes out for rebounds. Poor all around ball handler. It prevents him from reaching his potential on so many levels. From creating his shot, beating people off the dribble, leading the fast break and playing SF full time. Has trouble getting position on the blocks due to his size. Most PF’s who are All Star level or higher have an explosive first step that rivals guards. For someone with his speed, you expect better.
Smith has severe issues in terms of his impact. He has the ability to impact every game he plays in more ways than most players and more so anyone on the Hawks. He has the innate ability to keep the Hawks in games as well as lose them. He can go through mental withdrawal during games and never come out of them. He can have an attitude issue. When frustrated, he will lose composure. This is quite different from players like Dwight Howard who also have attitude issues. He can still positively impact the game with his; Smith actually cannot when he has issues.
He also is inconsistent to an extreme level but I really feel that it has to do with his mental state than his ability. Just because of his flaws, he will always have consistency issues. But mental flaws are there with Smith. This may cause some teams to fear that he’s a guy you can have as a major part of a championship team. Some may view him as a 6th man and not a starter for a contender but I disagree. I feel he can be a major part of a title team and even a second option given a coach who willing to put up with Smith and a PG who can create his offense and run a full court offense full time. Steve Nash is prime example of that PG.
Smith is a very good player. He can have elite impact as well as NBA bench player impact any given game. At best he is the #1 option on a bad team or 6th man on a contender. He would be even better than he is if he was able to play with an up-tempo playmaker at PG who plays fast like Steve Nash. Then he could actually have elite impact more so than not. He needs to play next to a true center that rebounds well and stays around the basket a lot as well. His defense is a good enough reason why he would start every game for almost all NBA teams.
Josh Smith and Al Horford.
To be honest, nothing has changed. I think he has gotten much smarter in terms of decision making but it is still a major issue for him. At least this time, his more personnel than just him being dumb. He has also proved that he's is never a legit #1 option even for a bad team because he is too good for his team to suck.
Josh Smith
Smith is one of the most talented players in the NBA. He is a supremely athletic, elite defensive player. He is our best defensive player since Mutombo. On top of that he has some solid offensive skills. He has a solid array of post moves. Smith has decent footwork in the low post. He is an up-tempo player with great ability to run the floor. Josh is a smart defensive player. He can play PF and SF. He can defend the post at PF at a solid clip. Understanding of timing of blocks and steals is second to none for Smoove only comparable to Dwight. In fact, he is a lot like Dwight on defense. Dwight just has more athletic ability, great size, has elite defensive bbiq, and a better help side defense. Has elite recovery ability when beaten on defense. Processes excellent speed for his position and runs like deer. Rarely is in foul trouble. People do not realize how discipline Smith is on defense. Clutch defender. Smith plays with a strong fire and passion for the game.
Smith has talent in bunches on offense too. He passes the ball as well as any low post player in the NBA. He has very good court vision from the post and the top of the key. Very good jumper within 15 feet. Understands where to be on offensive plays and where everyone else should be as well. He really excels in a full court offense. He is a talented rebounder by his timing and god given athletic ability. Very good playmaker. Very good hands. Strong finisher when on the move. Good second and third step. Smith definitely has an impact on the game. Smith really has room to grow in terms of being a better decision maker. He still has untapped potential.
Smith has potential to really put up great numbers for teams that aren't so good. He has limitations that prevent him to getting to that next level as a player. He has low offensive bbiq. He lacks movement in the half court when it's not called in the play. He lacks innovation when he doesn't have the ball in his hands on offense. He lacks understanding of his limitations. He does not know his limitations. He has slew feet which hinders his perimeter man defense. This not a killer for his defense. Lebron James and Dwight Howard also have slew feet but Dwight doesn’t guard perimeter guys. He mainly anchors from the low post and Lebron has so many tools and he is so stronger and his ability to recover is great he make hide it. His lack of position and size really affects his overall ability even with great talents. Smith lacks the ability to create his own offense at a very good rate. He can create his offense at a solid rate. Rarely boxes out for rebounds. Poor all around ball handler. It prevents him from reaching his potential on so many levels. From creating his shot, beating people off the dribble, leading the fast break and playing SF full time. Has trouble getting position on the blocks due to his size. Most PF’s who are All Star level or higher have an explosive first step that rivals guards. For someone with his speed, you expect better.
Smith has severe issues in terms of his impact. He has the ability to impact every game he plays in more ways than most players and more so anyone on the Hawks. He has the innate ability to keep the Hawks in games as well as lose them. He can go through mental withdrawal during games and never come out of them. He can have an attitude issue. When frustrated, he will lose composure. This is quite different from players like Dwight Howard who also have attitude issues. He can still positively impact the game with his; Smith actually cannot when he has issues.
He also is inconsistent to an extreme level but I really feel that it has to do with his mental state than his ability. Just because of his flaws, he will always have consistency issues. But mental flaws are there with Smith. This may cause some teams to fear that he’s a guy you can have as a major part of a championship team. Some may view him as a 6th man and not a starter for a contender but I disagree. I feel he can be a major part of a title team and even a second option given a coach who willing to put up with Smith and a PG who can create his offense and run a full court offense full time. Steve Nash is prime example of that PG.
Smith is a very good player. He can have elite impact as well as NBA bench player impact any given game. At best he is the #1 option on a bad team or 6th man on a contender. He would be even better than he is if he was able to play with an up-tempo playmaker at PG who plays fast like Steve Nash. Then he could actually have elite impact more so than not. He needs to play next to a true center that rebounds well and stays around the basket a lot as well. His defense is a good enough reason why he would start every game for almost all NBA teams.
Al Horford
Please note: I am copying and pasting from early Dec 2011.
After the first small write-up, I seemed extremely scatterbrained. I will section this one.
Offense-
Strengths: Very good mid range jumper. In fact, when he is open, he has an elite mid range jumper. Good ball handler. He can beat bigger or slower defenders on the dribble. Good speed for his position. Has excellent foot speed for his size. Very good athlete. It gives him a major advantage when bursting to the basket from the perimeter from a screen. Very high Offensive bbiq. Has very good passing ability out of the post. Decent court vision. Boxes out at a solid rate. Very good offensive rebounder. Has potential to be elite at it. Good instincts in terms of the offense and plays within himself. Sneaky quick for his position. Here is where he truly excels, movement. He has excellent innovative skills. He will break the offense if he sees something open that wasn’t there. Has elite movement moving around the court. Is a very tough matchup for any defender because he is always moving. He is extremely aggressive setting picks. Knows how to set clean picks and is quick enough to get open after the pick. Strong finisher. Excellent Hands. Elite motor. Can play several positions on offense and is versatile. His second and third step is good. Gets position in the post at a good clip with Bibby at PG. Has a vocal presence. Possesses very good intangibles and still has room to grow. Excellent in terms of attacking the basket after setting picks. Has a strong desire to win.
Weaknesses: Al cannot create his own shot. He’s just not talented enough to do so. He doesn’t have great low post skills. Solid low post skills and can command a double team but can be stopped by a good defender on the blocks. Has trouble shooting when he isn’t open. This is not unusual for most NBA players but for an All Star talent it is. Decent first step for his position. This is something where he differs from most studs. Most PF’s who are All Star level or higher have an explosive first step that rivals guards. For someone with his footwork, you expect better. He second and third step is good. Not aggressive enough with his offense. He is willing to take a back seat and when he forces his offense, it looks even worst. Not much of a playmaker. Is strong as an ox. Could grow in terms of attacking the basket when he is not using PnR’s. Average to say the least as a NBA player. Was strong at it in college.
Defense-
Strengths: Elite defensive bbiq. This really makes him tough even when out of position. His excellent footwork makes him such a multi-purpose defender. He has at times defended all five positions. His quickness keeps him in position when the offensive player has a good skill set of moves. Very good post defender. Excellent rebounder and has move for improvement especially given his current situation in Atlanta. Is solid at shot blocking. Good recovery ability. Very good athlete and that helps him as well. Elite team defender. Rarely commits silly fouls. Clutch defender. Because of these things, it also makes him a great team defender
Weaknesses: Not much of a help side defender, in fact he’s not that good at it. Can get into early foul trouble. He does struggle with bigger players who are very talented. He can be beaten by screens on occasion. While he is a great man defender, he can struggle to defend the PnR at times. This really didn’t happen much under Hinrich as much as Bibby. I wonder if this was just Bibby fault since he is a horrible defender.
Please note: I am copying and pasting from early Dec 2011.
After the first small write-up, I seemed extremely scatterbrained. I will section this one.
Offense-
Strengths: Very good mid range jumper. In fact, when he is open, he has an elite mid range jumper. Good ball handler. He can beat bigger or slower defenders on the dribble. Good speed for his position. Has excellent foot speed for his size. Very good athlete. It gives him a major advantage when bursting to the basket from the perimeter from a screen. Very high Offensive bbiq. Has very good passing ability out of the post. Decent court vision. Boxes out at a solid rate. Very good offensive rebounder. Has potential to be elite at it. Good instincts in terms of the offense and plays within himself. Sneaky quick for his position. Here is where he truly excels, movement. He has excellent innovative skills. He will break the offense if he sees something open that wasn’t there. Has elite movement moving around the court. Is a very tough matchup for any defender because he is always moving. He is extremely aggressive setting picks. Knows how to set clean picks and is quick enough to get open after the pick. Strong finisher. Excellent Hands. Elite motor. Can play several positions on offense and is versatile. His second and third step is good. Gets position in the post at a good clip with Bibby at PG. Has a vocal presence. Possesses very good intangibles and still has room to grow. Excellent in terms of attacking the basket after setting picks. Has a strong desire to win.
Weaknesses: Al cannot create his own shot. He’s just not talented enough to do so. He doesn’t have great low post skills. Solid low post skills and can command a double team but can be stopped by a good defender on the blocks. Has trouble shooting when he isn’t open. This is not unusual for most NBA players but for an All Star talent it is. Decent first step for his position. This is something where he differs from most studs. Most PF’s who are All Star level or higher have an explosive first step that rivals guards. For someone with his footwork, you expect better. He second and third step is good. Not aggressive enough with his offense. He is willing to take a back seat and when he forces his offense, it looks even worst. Not much of a playmaker. Is strong as an ox. Could grow in terms of attacking the basket when he is not using PnR’s. Average to say the least as a NBA player. Was strong at it in college.
Defense-
Strengths: Elite defensive bbiq. This really makes him tough even when out of position. His excellent footwork makes him such a multi-purpose defender. He has at times defended all five positions. His quickness keeps him in position when the offensive player has a good skill set of moves. Very good post defender. Excellent rebounder and has move for improvement especially given his current situation in Atlanta. Is solid at shot blocking. Good recovery ability. Very good athlete and that helps him as well. Elite team defender. Rarely commits silly fouls. Clutch defender. Because of these things, it also makes him a great team defender
Weaknesses: Not much of a help side defender, in fact he’s not that good at it. Can get into early foul trouble. He does struggle with bigger players who are very talented. He can be beaten by screens on occasion. While he is a great man defender, he can struggle to defend the PnR at times. This really didn’t happen much under Hinrich as much as Bibby. I wonder if this was just Bibby fault since he is a horrible defender.
Actually seeing Josh as a #1 option in Atlanta has convinced me that he is too good now and his team will be at least decent with him. So it's impossible for him to really play for a bad team sans Charlotte but they aren't going to land Josh Smith so it doesn't matter. I don't know what's Josh best fit is. Who knows. He is totally unorthodox. I would he needs to be a true center and a #1 option. That's about it. He runs the court better than any 3/4 I know in the NBA sans Bron.
bigmanharris
Coli Gangsta
Al is much better to me than Josh in the grand spectrum of things but I can see why someone would think Josh is more talent, Josh is more talented.
Al is much better than Joe to me as well. Much better. I liked Joe, all around player. Our best guard since I can remember in Atlanta. Maybe since Pistol. Better than Smitty and I liked Smitty. Still one of the best post games from a guard I've seen and had a that mid range game on lock
I don't see how you can say he isn't explosive. Do you have tape to prove otherwise. I was just watching a lot of the games yesterday,
He has a decent first step but nope, he is not 24 year old Amare or Blake Griffin but then again, who is? David Lee is doing just fine who Horford has a quicker first step then.
Horford is not extremely skills and athletic like Kemp or Griffin? I didn't know that, the tape said that but I didn't know.
You sound like a hater
That's obvious. You think Earl Clark is better. You are no different than those Joe haters saying Lou Williams is a clear upgrade and using adv. statistics when Atlanta uses Joe wrong and we really can't use Lou right. Joe is a much better player as well.
Al will never be Hakeem in the post. That's not his game. He is a movement guy. So was Malone. A big part of Malone's success is based on John Stockton and their system. Every big knew it as Webber mentioned it in that Legend's roundtable and Chuck mentioned it numberous times as well. Malone had Stockton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US-h15qVBCc
This is how you run the PnR from Malone himself. Of course, it's MUCH easier when you got a PG with court vision, BBIQ, knows how to run offensive sets, passing skills and a PnR big man which are hard to find in the NBA. I can give you a couple of them. Robinson(Sac), West(Indy), Boozer, young Amare. Some guys are okay at it like Griffin, Jordan, M. Gasol, Bonner, etc. Gasol or Bonner can't move but Boozer, West, and Robinson are pretty good at it. Horford is the only one great at it sans Malone. Elite movement bigs are rare in the NBA. You can find good ones but the elite ones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_yozMkcXFs
I didn't mind the iso ball. It was effective when you had Jamal and Joe and Bibby getting us into sets. Smith always would kills sets by moving to the three point line but he improved on that of late. Now he just does it because our offense is drawn up that way.
I still say our biggest need is a #1 or #2 option who is all around sorry Monta Ellis or a PnR PG. I think we could use a real center as well but those are hard to come by.
What I like about this team is Josh Smith, Al Horford and Jeff Teague but I hate the same sans Horford. Teague is doing a solid job at his role but he isn't getting us where we need to be as he can't run an offense, his PnR creation is exclusively for his offense, he has poor court vision, and he's inconsistent.
All three are two way players who give you both offense and defense which is a huge plus. Teague doesn't lose you games. He doesn't win you them either. Josh can win and lose you games. Al helps you win games but he doesn't really win you games often.
Amare had average BBIQ but he was so talented and gifted that he could score 40 and 50 on any defender. Tim Duncan had issues defending him. Steve Nash liked Amare but Amare wasn't good at execution, he was great at everything talent wise. He is the only PF offensive who had the total offensive reportire. Not even Dirk had who Amare had talent and skill wise. If Amare had the BBIQ, he would have been the best ever. Still the most gifted offensive PF I've seen. Amare was great at face up, movement, shooting, and his athleticism was elite. There wasn't much Amare couldn't do offensively.
Joe >>> Josh and Al
Joe's 2007 season > their careers.
You bring up David Lee, but I don't see anyone saying he is a top 5 PF. People barely talk about him. Al is good, just not great. I said I went overboard with the list, Earl Clark isn't better than Al as well as a few others like Favors and even Lee....but ain't nobody stopping Al from getting 20 & 10, but him and his limited game. Don't get me wrong he's a nice piece and can be an important cog on a championship team, but he not going to do any heavy lifting. Simple and plain, Al can't create his own shot. He's a good passer and plays the high low game well. This offense suits him, but he still not beasting. Him and Josh play perfectly off each other. Neither are consistent tho. I still love this team as they play as a team and are entertaining. Thats all I ask for right now because i've have to live thru the Chris Crawford years, the Jason Terry years, the years Woody was trying to make Boris Diaw a PG.
I'm fine with Al as he is, but the same way some of us drank the Josh kool aid, i'm pouring out the Al kool aid. He was supposed to take that next step after he practiced against the World Championship team that one year.....but we've only seen incremental increases.....
Joe >>> Josh and Al
Joe's 2007 season > their careers.
You bring up David Lee, but I don't see anyone saying he is a top 5 PF. People barely talk about him. Al is good, just not great. I said I went overboard with the list, Earl Clark isn't better than Al as well as a few others like Favors and even Lee....but ain't nobody stopping Al from getting 20 & 10, but him and his limited game. Don't get me wrong he's a nice piece and can be an important cog on a championship team, but he not going to do any heavy lifting. Simple and plain, Al can't create his own shot. He's a good passer and plays the high low game well. This offense suits him, but he still not beasting. Him and Josh play perfectly off each other. Neither are consistent tho. I still love this team as they play as a team and are entertaining. Thats all I ask for right now because i've have to live thru the Chris Crawford years, the Jason Terry years, the years Woody was trying to make Boris Diaw a PG.
I'm fine with Al as he is, but the same way some of us drank the Josh kool aid, i'm pouring out the Al kool aid. He was supposed to take that next step after he practiced against the World Championship team that one year.....but we've only seen incremental increases.....
Joe lead the Hawks to a 30-52 record and Josh was giving you 16.4/9/3. No one took us serious that year, don't suffer from Wizardrhea.
Breh, what don't you get.
He's a movement PF, our offense now is about ball movement, not player movement due to the fact that Teague can't run a NBA level offense at an efficient level. Look at these highlights, he is mainly on the block. If you have a PnR movement PF, why the hell is he on the block at center of positions trying to score points.
That's like trying to run the PnR exclusively with Al Jefferson, it's not a good idea. Saying no one is stopping him is a completely false statement, that's like saying, Lebron should have won a title in Cleveland like he did in Miami, no one is stopping him.
David Lee is a good PF and a very good PnR PF. He was the only PF averaging 20/10 this year for a large part of the season. One of the best passing PF's in the NBA and he is a top 10 PF in the NBA, I would say top 5 for this season alone.
Really breh
Do you watch the games? So you think we win games because of Kyle Korver and Devin Harris at SG right? I don't even know why I am entertaining this. This is more personal for you than actual realism.