NJPW believes in a organic growth approach with wrestlers. Something that the WWE hasn't done in ages because they are too quick to push wrestlers to the moon, instead of letting them cook a bit (Roman Reigns). The thing about Naito is that it took dude a minute for him to become a major star in NJPW. Naito going to Mexico to peep game on how to be a rudo and taking that knowledge back to the G1 was friggin amazing. Every match dude looked like he could give two shyts about the match and the wrestler. Dude came a long way from being Tana 2.0.
How Was Japan Able to Create an Over As fukk Heel/Anti-Hero When WWE Hasn't Done So In 10+ Years?
- Thread starter Drones
- Start date
Tetsuya Naito is one of the most over dudes in New Japan, his clique has the hottest merch in the company, and he's done it as a swaggering a$$hole. WWE used to be great at creating guys like this: heels that got so over that they became de facto faces, but unless you count Phil in the mid-2000s they haven't done it since the Attitude Era.
It's evident that they want (or perhaps wanted) Rollins to be that guy, but he's not nearly there yet thanks to some questionable booking and their refusal to de-push Reigns. So what exactly has NJPW bottled with Naito that continues to elude Vince and the E?
At WK11 when I watched Naito flick the IC IWGP belt into the ring like it was a blunt roach, it instantly grabbed me and made me wonder who the hell he was. It was awesome but frankly it made me miss the days when I saw WWE wrestlers able to get over in the same assholish, you're-not-supposed-to-like-me-but-you-can't-help-it way.
They did all that with Lesnar. That was his gimmick when he came back
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Mikael Blowpiff
#LosIngobernabrehs
naito works because his character goes against a lot of traditional japanese values that younger fans feel a certain resentment towards in the wake of japan's decades-long malaise. its not really anything that can work here. at least not in the wwe.
Interesting perspective.
Austin worked because he appealed to the fantasy of giving your boss the finger and kicking him in the stomach. Naito works because he doesn't care for the pageantry of wrestling or, as you said, greater Japanese societal values. Both resonate(d) with resentful young people who want(ed) to rebel.
Perhaps there is a character WWE could create to resonate with the disillusionment and cynicism American millennials feel about the country they've inherited. Problem is I don't have any faith in WWE to book that story with nuance and enough time to get it over.
SpacelySprockets
Veteran
funny thing is reigns can be that guy
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
at the revisionism Puro in general, New Japan included, tends to give huge pushes to young guys as soon as they show enough promise. In the last 15 years, two of the three big main eventers New Japan has had were pushed quick as fukk and didn't show any "organic growth" (Nakamura and Okada). With Shinsuke, it mostly failed for 5 years until he went to Japan and unleashed his Swagamura gimmick. With Okada it clicked as soon as he came back from his failed US excursion. And Tanahashi, although it took longer to get a main event spot, was still highly protected before 06' with the U-30 belt that was pretty much created for him.
Naito was given a big ass push from the get go too. As soon as he was the clear star of NO LIMIT he started getting wins (including a "shocking" win over Tana in a G-1 semifinal). He was gonna get a big title win at the Dome too until his push backfired. He went to Mexico plenty of times and was a rudo before turning heel in Japan, he always had "it" as a heel but booking took pretty much 1 year longer than needed to turn him and let him reign free.
New Japan booking has been waaaaay better than most of WWE's in the last 10 years but let's not act like they are this special place were booking clicks on all cylinders.
I disagree completely, at least regarding Gedo. He gave Naito the super push and fans weren't buying it, so they turned on him, but he kept pushing him just as hard and Naito had to go away for a while and assume a gimmick from a CMLL stable and come back to get his career back on track. When Gedo brought Okada back, he immediately pushed him to the top of the card and insinsted that he was the future and will be the ace no matter what. He went over Tanahashi a month after his return from excursion and has never lost his position since. Tanahashi and Nakamura got similar "these are the new top guys, deal with it" pushes way early for both of them as well.
Gedo was more than happy to run endless combinations of Tanahashi/Nakamura/Okada and Ishii/Honma/Shibata until the wheels fell off, but he was graced by TNA's incompetence and AJ Styles fell in his lap. Then AJ/Nak both left at the same time and he was forced to elevate Naito and Omega, who otherwise would absolutely still be in the same positions they were in 2015.
BlackAchilles
Veteran
That's an interesting point, though TBH there are some potential aspects of American culture that could be a source of this tho WWE is too conservative/lazy/
to give it a shot.Anyway OP with all due respect I actually think they've had too many of what you described, and would be better served trying to come up with a main event face who's legit over with the fans and is neither a white meat lame nor a cynical a$$hole
Scottie Drippin
Should Never Mention Me
Are you insinuating that there isn’t a youth culture in the US absolutely fed-up with their generational predecessors and their country? The WWE has been tone deaf since the 00’s. They never left the 90’s. They FINALLY have a heel mirroring the social media celebrity culture with The Miz.
Naito’s gimmick is just playing up a stereotypical millennial, even down to the fact that all the LIJ merch just copies the design cues of streetwear brands like Been Trill.
The LIJ gimmick was born in Mexico, worked in Japan, and would work in the US as well. The sentiment is universal.
Funnily enough, this thread ignores that AJ is booked as a heel but just gets cheered for everything he does
Lack of competition and tenure prevents WWE from doing this.
Seriously, The WWE is in a very comfortable place right now, they have so much good talent they are just sitting on, they don't feel the need to take risks and outside of New Japan, nobody is even close to competing with them. Why work hard when you can coast and still be #1? In the attitude era, people were hungry and willing to take risks because they had nothing else to lose. Its a publically traded company now, the company itself is going nowhere so no need to stretch outside of the comfort zone.
Also, because there are so many established guys at the top who have been around for a decade plus who are just lingering around, there isn't any room for a hungry younger guy to make a name for himself. Cena and Orton been on top for 13 years and still taking main event spots from talented guys. Its actually why I respect guys like The Rock and Austin because they came in, rode their wave and then moved on to something else. There is only so many spots and the guys on top will always get preferential treatment, but when HHH, Brock, Taker, Kane, Big Show, Cena, Orton AND Batista are all popping up every 4 months, they are all taking spots from guys that could be establishing themselves.
Seriously, The WWE is in a very comfortable place right now, they have so much good talent they are just sitting on, they don't feel the need to take risks and outside of New Japan, nobody is even close to competing with them. Why work hard when you can coast and still be #1? In the attitude era, people were hungry and willing to take risks because they had nothing else to lose. Its a publically traded company now, the company itself is going nowhere so no need to stretch outside of the comfort zone.
Also, because there are so many established guys at the top who have been around for a decade plus who are just lingering around, there isn't any room for a hungry younger guy to make a name for himself. Cena and Orton been on top for 13 years and still taking main event spots from talented guys. Its actually why I respect guys like The Rock and Austin because they came in, rode their wave and then moved on to something else. There is only so many spots and the guys on top will always get preferential treatment, but when HHH, Brock, Taker, Kane, Big Show, Cena, Orton AND Batista are all popping up every 4 months, they are all taking spots from guys that could be establishing themselves.
PlayerNinety_Nine
Produced, Arranged, Composed and Performed by....
'Summer Of Punk' happened a couple of months before Occupy Wall Street. Punk getting at Vince for being out of touch old money was pretty much exactly what you laid out, but they did it in a much more narrow way, and rushed the post Money In The Bank storyline. I thought it was such a waste because some of the most well remembered champions of the past reflected some facet of American society - Hogan - America in the 80's. Austin - Generation X, Rock - The late 90's 'Platinum' hip-hop era.
Since then, I don't know if they've managed it. I might be wrong though
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WWE crowds are completely different, the smark crowds wouldn't let 99% of the NJPW heels actually be heels they'd be cheered so loud and the product would turn to trash
just look at this thread full of smarks, you guys can't get enough of fukking heels that try to act too cool
just look at this thread full of smarks, you guys can't get enough of fukking heels that try to act too cool
ExodusNirvana
Change is inevitable...
The product would turn to trash because instead of giving teh smarks what they want, they'd try to cool off the person who is over in lieu of pushing the person THEY want to push
ex. Roman Reigns
Punk and brock were both bigger than Naito in the same space