I won't be calling trans women "women" anymore.

[EARFQUAKE]

I'd been on the fence about this one because I understand deeply both sides of the argument. And I understand that the reason why a lot of trans people are so radical is due to trying to clear the stigma in our society about gender roles, but the execution is oftentimes misplaced and even counterproductive.

I've always felt that people should look, wear, and act however they want. If a man wants to wear a dress and look pretty he should have that right without his manhood being questioned. If a woman is more comfortable in men clothing she should have that right without her womanhood being questioned.

And the thing is, most men and women do this without labeling themselves as trans. Fact of the matter is, there are very masculine looking women who look like men but are still comfortable with their gender as a woman, because being a woman doesn't mean being voluptuous or wearing make up.

This may be too big brained for a lot of folks, especially the coli considering its bigoted views on transgenderism. That's why this thread is here and not in TLR. That's why I'm explaining this in the most lazy and layman way.

TLR doesn't even understand the concept of someone being intersex, let alone why someone would decide to transition and what it entails.

But back to the main idea, calling a trans woman a trans woman versus calling them a woman is simple, and by no means a way to insult. It also applies to their rules where they call biological men and women cis. So it works and doesn't demean them. It's also how level headed trans people refer to themselves.

I wanted to write more but I got lazy. The end.

 

[Ya Sinning Mane]

good

 

[13473]

This may be too big brained for a lot of folks, especially the coli considering its bigoted views on transgenderism. That's why this thread is here and not in TLR.

i think thinking like this is an issue.

people disagree with you and instead of rebutting their ideas you just call them a bigot and characterize them as too dumb to understand. then u bring your beliefs to women who are seen as more tolerant and easier to manipulate, but women are hit the hardest by all this trans stuff

you even do the insult thing towards the trans people saying the ones who agree with you are levelheaded. i've seen many trans online who wouldn't be ok with that. in fact, i'd say most.

you seem to be trying to compromise on the idea (1) you don't view them as women (2) this stuff is illogical and more about protecting feelings of a subgroup of men (3) u still wanna be seen as liberal and/or open-minded unlike the "bigoted" people u describe in TLR.

 

[EARFQUAKE]

i think thinking like this is an issue.

people disagree with you and instead of rebutting their ideas you just call them a bigot and characterize them as too dumb to understand. then u bring your beliefs to women who are seen as more tolerant and easier to manipulate, but women are hit the hardest by all this trans stuff

you even do the insult thing towards the trans people saying the ones who agree with you are levelheaded. i've seen many trans online who wouldn't be ok with that. in fact, i'd say most.

you seem to be trying to compromise on the idea (1) you don't view them as women (2) this stuff is illogical and more about protecting feelings of a subgroup of men (3) u still wanna be seen as liberal and/or open-minded unlike the "bigoted" people u describe in TLR.

TLR is bigoted. They have admitted it and they don't care. A dead trans woman is just another dead man to them.

With that being said, no one wants to debate on the topic of transgenderism because they have already made up their mind. So whenever I've defended them I've been called out of my name and berated. No big deal, I don't choose to engage with the back and forth like that.

Most people don't do their research on the topic and it shows. We've had (have) trans and intersex people on here (who have all been trolled btw) and what it comes down to is means to insult these people instead of trying to understand them.

u bring your beliefs to women who are seen as more tolerant and easier to manipulate

I brought this to the salon because this place is a graveyard. More men lurk this place than women do, anyway, so it isn't about who I wanted to vent to. I didn't want to have my thread brigaded.

 

[13473]

TLR is bigoted. They have admitted it and they don't care. A dead trans woman is just another dead man to them.

how does this make them bigots?i could see if u were saying they prayed for their deaths or something, but u are basically calling them bigots for viewing these people for what they are biologically - male.

I brought this to the salon because this place is a graveyard.

other sections of this site don't have high traffic either

 

[CarmelBarbie]

I'd been on the fence about this one because I understand deeply both sides of the argument. And I understand that the reason why a lot of trans people are so radical is due to trying to clear the stigma in our society about gender roles, but the execution is oftentimes misplaced and even counterproductive.

I've always felt that people should look, wear, and act however they want. If a man wants to wear a dress and look pretty he should have that right without his manhood being questioned. If a woman is more comfortable in men clothing she should have that right without her womanhood being questioned.

And the thing is, most men and women do this without labeling themselves as trans. Fact of the matter is, there are very masculine looking women who look like men but are still comfortable with their gender as a woman, because being a woman doesn't mean being voluptuous or wearing make up.

This may be too big brained for a lot of folks, especially the coli considering its bigoted views on transgenderism. That's why this thread is here and not in TLR. That's why I'm explaining this in the most lazy and layman way.

TLR doesn't even understand the concept of someone being intersex, let alone why someone would decide to transition and what it entails.

But back to the main idea, calling a trans woman a trans woman versus calling them a woman is simple, and by no means a way to insult. It also applies to their rules where they call biological men and women cis. So it works and doesn't demean them. It's also how level headed trans people refer to themselves.

I wanted to write more but I got lazy. The end.

With all this being said, what is your opinion about trans women being lumped into the same group as "cis" women? For example, being able to use a cis-women bathroom, a cis-women locker room and join cis-women sports teams? Why do they beg to be included in cis-groups (like black girls rock)? Since there is a clear difference (and even they themselves separate themselves from us by using "sis" so they know there is) why then are they so insistent on being grouped in with biological women? Why can't "trans" women create their own space here they have their own teams, their own bathrooms, their own locker rooms, their own clinics? They don't see themselves as biological men. Fine. They don't have to be part of the male group. But they also aren't biological women--so they shouldn't be apart of our group either. They need their own space, separate from "cis-women".

I say this because no matter how they dress, talk, the hormones they use, and how they see themselves, they are not like biological women. And most biological women will not be able to relate to the trans women's journey. It's very different from ours. They are different from us. That's my issue with trans women. I'll call them whatever they want, but it's with the understanding that they are biological males. The reason many trans-women are losing support from many "cis-women" is because of them forcing themselves in our spaces (which is very much a great example of their male entitlement). We want them to do their "own" thing.

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

With all this being said, what is your opinion about trans women being lumped into the same group as "cis" women? For example, being able to use a cis-women bathroom, a cis-women locker room and join cis-women sports teams? Why do they beg to be included in cis-groups (like black girls rock)? Since there is a clear difference (and even they themselves separate themselves from us by using "sis" so they know there is) why then are they so insistent on being grouped in with biological women? Why can't "trans" women create their own space here they have their own teams, their own bathrooms, their own locker rooms, their own clinics? They don't see themselves as biological men. Fine. They don't have to be part of the male group. But they also aren't biological women--so they shouldn't be apart of our group either. They need their own space, separate from "cis-women".

I say this because no matter how they dress, talk, the hormones they use, and how they see themselves, they are not like biological women. And most biological women will not be able to relate to the trans women's journey. It's very different from ours. They are different from us. That's my issue with trans women. I'll call them whatever they want, but it's with the understanding that they are biological males. The reason many trans-women are losing support from many "cis-women" is because of them forcing themselves in our spaces (which is very much a great example of their male entitlement). We want them to do their "own" thing.

That is the talk the needs to take place but no one wants or is scared to because of the backlash. I think you hit the nail on the head when you brought up their need to be included as part of male entitlement.

I'm all for respecting people and letting them live their life but it should also be okay in acknowledging the differences.

 

[EARFQUAKE]

With all this being said, what is your opinion about trans women being lumped into the same group as "cis" women? For example, being able to use a cis-women bathroom, a cis-women locker room and join cis-women sports teams? Why do they beg to be included in cis-groups (like black girls rock)? Since there is a clear difference (and even they themselves separate themselves from us by using "sis" so they know there is) why then are they so insistent on being grouped in with biological women? Why can't "trans" women create their own space here they have their own teams, their own bathrooms, their own locker rooms, their own clinics? They don't see themselves as biological men. Fine. They don't have to be part of the male group. But they also aren't biological women--so they shouldn't be apart of our group either. They need their own space, separate from "cis-women".

I say this because no matter how they dress, talk, the hormones they use, and how they see themselves, they are not like biological women. And most biological women will not be able to relate to the trans women's journey. It's very different from ours. They are different from us. That's my issue with trans women. I'll call them whatever they want, but it's with the understanding that they are biological males. The reason many trans-women are losing support from many "cis-women" is because of them forcing themselves in our spaces (which is very much a great example of their male entitlement). We want them to do their "own" thing.

There is a huge difference in how trans women assimilate as a woman vs how a trans man assimilate to being a man. You rarely hear any controversial statements or events happening on the trans men side of the movement because, and I'm not sure why, they just understand the dynamics better, I guess. They're not fighting to use men bathrooms or play in men's sports. Not to the degree that it's so overbearing. So the contrast coincides with your statement on the "male privilege" within trans women, in some way, not all. Not all trans women are aligned, especially the white folks and minorities. Black trans representation in the media is as useful as Nike tweeting #BLM. So when they say trans women are included in black girl magic it's all noise marketing and the opposite of reality. Black trans women are hated and killed.

Personally, I don't care what gender uses what bathroom, this includes heterosexuals. I was indifferent a few years ago but reality hit me that it truly doesn't matter and what someone calls themselves isn't going to be the deciding factor to be a pervert in a public restroom.

I speak on that from an analytical and personal pov. I've had to share public bathrooms and public showers with both genders and you learn most people are just trying to go about their business. However, based on history, women do need their own private spaces. I believe in women only gyms and women only prisons. Trans women need to have their own prisons or a section in male prisons. Trans men should not be in male prisons.

I don't have a dog in the fight against trans women in women sports. I used to argue against it until I gave up because why? I'm not an athlete and if women athletes approve a trans woman as their opponent, why should I be outraged for them?

 

[Taadow]

That is the talk the needs to take place but no one wants or is scared to because of the backlash. I think you hit the nail on the head when you brought up their need to be included as part of male entitlement.

I'm all for respecting people and letting them live their life but it should also be okay in acknowledging the differences.

Frankly, that was the one point she made I disagree with.

I don’t see how wanting to be included is strictly a male thing; if anything,
I would say that’s more female.

 

[Taadow]

I don't have a dog in the fight against trans women in women sports. I used to argue against it until I gave up because why? I'm not an athlete and if women athletes approve a trans woman as their opponent, why should I be outraged for them?

I think when it comes down to it, this is women’s stance in general
regarding most things.

You don’t care too hard if you don’t have a dog in the fight.

 

[Bud Bundy]

I just call people by whatever name they want and keep it moving.

 

[QuintessentialMan]

TERFs in da house

Yeah its common sense you dont have to sound so apologetic.

We have cis women and we have trans women. Their words. Even THEY make the distinction. So case closed.

The 2 can never be the same. Feelings be damned.

 

[Mowgli]

I never did

 

[boogers]

i see what ya mean OP. personally i dont care what another man does cause i have a life.

what does bother me is hearing about shyt like that swimmer in Pennsylvania walking around the locker room naked with a boner, smiling at all the other girls. some of the teammates have come out and talked about their behavior. that person knew what they were doing. been team TERF since i was on twitter a while back and saw them going HAM on the harry potter lady... talkin about their dikks and periods (sandwiched between questions about hermione and dumbledore from actual kids) and sending death threats. smh

im not gonna tell someone else how to life their life but this shyt is outta control... you dont see the f2m types pulling shyt like this.. if you step far enough back from the situation it just looks like men have found another way to make womens lives worse... something they really dont need right now.

 

[F*ckthemkids]

Maaaam I’m going back to TLR