Immigrants aren't stealing your jobs

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Immigrants aren't stealing your jobs

Updated by Ezra Klein on September 15, 2014, 1:40 p.m. ET
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Dylan Matthews records Bryan Caplan making a very persuasive case for open borders. One of Caplan's best arguments is the entrance of women into the workforce in the 60s, 70s and 80s. "Was the result mass unemployment for men, as women took all their jobs? Of course not." But that frames it in the negative. Does anyone doubt that the American economy is better off because women can work? Of course not. Even the most retrograde sexists base their arguments on culture rather than economics.

But a yet simpler metaphor is birth rates. Americans grok that higher birth rates are good for economies. Japan's low birth rate is routinely framed as a disaster for the country. "Japan: Death by Demographics?" reads a typical headline in the National Interest. The same goes for Europe. Here's Forbes: "What's Really Behind Europe's Decline? It's The Birth Rates, Stupid." And for all the puffery of China's economic model, no one ever suggests America adopt their one-child policy. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Fittingly, declines in the American birth rate are treated as emergencies. "Forget the debt ceiling. Forget the fiscal cliff, the sequestration cliff and the entitlement cliff," wrote Jonathan Last in the Wall Street Journal. "Those are all just symptoms. What America really faces is a demographic cliff: The root cause of most of our problems is our declining fertility rate."

But there's an easy way to solve for a declining fertility rate: open the borders.

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SAUL LOEB/AFP/Getty Images

It's intuitive to Americans that the economy benefits when there are more people around to invent, produce, and purchase stuff. As such, public opinion in America overwhelmingly favors the idea that we should make more people. But that consensus quickly breaks down when the conversation turns to letting in more people.

There are good reasons for that. A higher birth rate has very different implications for social solidarity than a spike in immigration, for instance. Plans to strengthen America's social safety net — or, much more to the point, adopt a universal basic income — would buckle beneath a massive influx of immigrants. There are difficult questions around border security. There are very hard questions about how to integrate a lot of new people into American society (or any other society).

But the reason most often given is a bad one: the idea that more immigrants will take jobs from, and depress wages for, native-born workers. There's overwhelming economic evidence that higher levels of immigration make most native-born workers better off. There's mixed evidence on the effect on low-skill workers, but even if there are small losses, those are better managed through transfer programs than by closing the border.

This is where the analogy to birth rates is truly useful, though. When you're thinking about competition between workers, the key question is how similar their skills are. Take two graduates from the same university, with the same grades, with the same major, with the same work experience, looking for the same kind of job, and an employer really might be able to play them off each other — and thus depress their wages. But take a law school graduate looking for a job with a firm and a high-school graduate looking for a job as an auto mechanic and they're not going to compete with each other much at all.

Native-born workers compete with each other much more directly than they compete with immigrant workers. The single biggest reason is that native-born workers all speak fluent English, and the jobs you can get when you're fluent in English are very different than the jobs you can get when you're not. That means immigrants are less of a threat than new native-born Americans entering the work force. (An interesting wrinkle in this is that, by the same token, immigrants are more of a threat to each other. "The group that appears most vulnerable to competitive pressure from new low-skill migrants is recent low-skill migrants," writes David Roodman in his survey of the economics of immigration.)

Which is all to say that if you're worried about competition between workers then you should be more comfortable adding workers through immigration than through higher birth rates. But to my knowledge, almost no one actually is. It's almost as if the core concern around immigration isn't really wages for low-skill native-born workers at all.

@theworldismine13 :patrice:
 

duckbutta

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That entire spill about "Jobs you get when you speak fluent English are different than jobs you can't when you don't" is so much horseshyt that I can't even understand the thought process of a person who wrote it...

I work in IT for a fortune 100 company and at least half of all the application developers in the company speak little to no English...to the point that some teams of developers have to actually have A TRANSLATOR because they speak almost no English...Had to set in a room and I was like "so we farmed this application to what contracting place?" and was told "oh these are in house developers?" "from where?" "from houston?"...nah breh these guys are definitely not "from houston?"

And these developers are not smart...they are cheap...and the company would rather pay for cheap developers who make buggy applications...because they now by the time the scathing article comes out about how crap the application is, they would have already made 100 of millions of dollars in multi year contracts for other companies and they will be off to the next cycle of developers and next brand new thing...
 

88m3

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That entire spill about "Jobs you get when you speak fluent English are different than jobs you can't when you don't" is so much horseshyt that I can't even understand the thought process of a person who wrote it...

I work in IT for a fortune 100 company and at least half of all the application developers in the company speak little to no English...to the point that some teams of developers have to actually have A TRANSLATOR because they speak almost no English...Had to set in a room and I was like "so we farmed this application to what contracting place?" and was told "oh these are in house developers?" "from where?" "from houston?"...nah breh these guys are definitely not "from houston?"

And these developers are not smart...they are cheap...and the company would rather pay for cheap developers who make buggy applications...because they now by the time the scathing article comes out about how crap the application is, they would have already made 100 of millions of dollars in multi year contracts for other companies and they will be off to the next cycle of developers and next brand new thing...

Yup, illegal immigrants are stealing IT jobs at fortune 100's. You are an idiot.

:salute:
 

Domingo Halliburton

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One of Caplan's best arguments is the entrance of women into the workforce in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Was the result mass unemployment for men, as women took all their jobs? Of course not." But that frames it in the negative. Does anyone doubt that the American economy is better off because women can work?


Couldn't you argue dual income families has now bid up the prices of living? when before a family could get by on a single income?
 
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duckbutta

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Yup, illegal immigrants are stealing IT jobs at fortune 100's. You are an idiot.

:salute:

Who said they were illegal...

If by stealing you mean they are able to get IT jobs at fortune 100 companies because they get to play by a different set of rules than american IT workers then yeah...that is exactly what they are doing.

You have no idea how easy it is to flip an american computer science engineering job that has historically paid 110k a year, to a H1B visa no benefits job that pays 55K a year...and then where do you think that difference in salary goes

Oh nevermind I just looked at your screen name...you one of those posters...carry on
 

Domingo Halliburton

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hmmm.... I wonder if that has anything at all to do with dual incomes and not other factors. Be interesting to see some "fact" or such on this.

http://www.nber.org/digest/nov02/w9013.html

this study suggests it had downward pressure on wages and increased inequality.


edit: don't get me wrong either, I'm not suggesting we go back to 1950 where women were the homemakers. And you could probably find a study that suggests the opposite...this is economics after all.
 
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88m3

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But he's right. It's a wonder all the 'certs' here don't co-sign. If they really had them, his post would have a hundred daps by now.

It probably has to do with the fact people can't survive on certs... in the real world that is.

This thread isn't about H1B visa's but he doesn't strike me as someone who is particularly bright.
 
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