Is Group Economics Among Black Americans Just A Pipe Dream?

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

fukk it, just throw "Jesus" in the mix here in Dallas, you can find something like 5 black megachurches within a 5 mile radius. Black people are interested in investing in Christ economics than group economics.

 

[Crakface]

Sometimes I believe that group economics is just a bunch of hype to give black people hope that one day we'll be able to prosper in the U.S. But I think that deep down a lot of us know that it'll never become a reality.

Its a pipe dream for people that have already given up.

 

[cinna_man]

Y'all need to learn to separate the concepts of "race" and "culture".

As a culture? No, black people will never have a thriving city like we talk about in modern day. The values of the past hold 'em back.

As a race? Yes, absolutely. Human DNA is 99.999% the same. The differences we see are epigenetic changes (non-permanent way the gene is expressed) and cultural beliefs. For instance, inner cities love basketball, and poor blacks descend from hundreds of years of poorness (perfect for better gene expression, but not enough time to actually select better DNA like with evolution), so we see a lot of basketball players come out of there. Jewish people, particularly the Ashkenazis, have a liberal and intellectual culture from birth, so naturally they go on to be most intelligent sub-race in the world, having far more Nobel Prizes than in proportion to any other race.

This is where modern day racism comes from. People think skin color = race = culture. They're different things. Give White people 100 years of slum living while Blacks become suburbanites, and Whites will develop the best athletes, through epigenetics and belief. Put Blacks in a highly intellectual culture and kick the Jewish people out, and the Blacks will become the smartest race in history.

I could dispell so many myths. Why do people think white people can't dance? Well, white music has no rhythm, so they didn't grow up dancing. Why doesn't white music have rhythm? Whites traditionally have idealized music at literally the opposite end of the spectrum (see classical music), and old habits die hard. Why have whites traditionally idealized non-rhythmic and highly structural music? Because it was originally for churches and white religion (Christianity) is very sexually repressed. True, blacks nowadays are sometimes Christian, but they still hold a lot of contradictory beliefs that came from before they were Christian: like during slave days or back in Africa.

It's cliche maybe, but it's really true that we're just human.

 

[bigDeeOT]

I'm glad you state in your thread title group economics among black Americans, instead of black people. Because I see this occurring with African and Afro carribean areas. Things like Susu and partners are unheard of outside of these groups. It works and it's micro financing at its finest.



In the US I could point to Atlanta and Maryland as examples. Internationally there is countless places in Africa. Just because the commercials here show kids with flies around their face does not mean the entire place is like that.

Edit:
the more I read into what you say the more it disgusts me. You think the world just ended up the way it is? There are countless events we can draw a timeline through that shows you how black people ended up this way. Notice I did not say 'we' because I question if you are indeed black.

Atlanta has one of the highest violent crime rates in the country. 99% of other cities in the U.S. have less violent crime than atlanta. Same for Baltimore. Only 4% of US cities are safer to live in than baltimore.

I don't mean to disgust you. This is just how I see the world bruh. I honestly want you to prove me wrong. I don't WISH it so that blacks are uncivilized. This is just how I see the world. Unfortunately, my views are so extreme that people always think I'm trolling or that I'm a white guy. I guess I just don't have that filter that most people have that prevents them from having extremely radical beliefs.

And for the record, could you name a predominately black city in africa that we should all look up to? I'm not asking for anything perfect, just something we can work with.

 

[bigDeeOT]

Y'all need to learn to separate the concepts of "race" and "culture".

As a culture? No, black people will never have a thriving city like we talk about in modern day. The values of the past hold 'em back.

As a race? Yes, absolutely. Human DNA is 99.999% the same. The differences we see are epigenetic changes (non-permanent way the gene is expressed) and cultural beliefs. For instance, inner cities love basketball, and poor blacks descend from hundreds of years of poorness (perfect for better gene expression, but not enough time to actually select better DNA like with evolution), so we see a lot of basketball players come out of there. Jewish people, particularly the Ashkenazis, have a liberal and intellectual culture from birth, so naturally they go on to be most intelligent sub-race in the world, having far more Nobel Prizes than in proportion to any other race.

This is where modern day racism comes from. People think skin color = race = culture. They're different things. Give White people 100 years of slum living while Blacks become suburbanites, and Whites will develop the best athletes, through epigenetics and belief. Put Blacks in a highly intellectual culture and kick the Jewish people out, and the Blacks will become the smartest race in history.

I could dispell so many myths. Why do people think white people can't dance? Well, white music has no rhythm, so they didn't grow up dancing. Why doesn't white music have rhythm? Whites traditionally have idealized music at literally the opposite end of the spectrum (see classical music), and old habits die hard. Why have whites traditionally idealized non-rhythmic and highly structural music? Because it was originally for churches and white religion (Christianity) is very sexually repressed. True, blacks nowadays are sometimes Christian, but they still hold a lot of contradictory beliefs that came from before they were Christian: like during slave days or back in Africa.

It's cliche maybe, but it's really true that we're just human.

Most of what you say is true but I can't agree with the notion that there are no genetic differences among races (if that's what you're saying). I think the reason why so many blacks are in the NBA is partially because blacks are genetically gifted.

Take for instance the 100m sprint. No white person has ever been able to compete with the top 100m sprinters in the world. I don't see how you can say that's due to 100% cultural differences. There has surely been plenty of whites who would have loved to be a world class 100m sprinter. But no matter how hard they try, they will never make it.

No matter what variable you control, blacks consistently score lower on IQ tests. Even if IQ is not equal to intelligence, you still would have to admit that blacks are genetically different from whites and asians on some sort of mental level. Perhaps black people just think "differently." You can't tell me blacks, whites, and asians all think the same way on a genetic level when no matter what variables you control for, blacks and whites score differently.

I think regardless of whether or not what I'm saying is true, a lot of people would never in a million years agree with me. And simply because some truths are too hard to swallow. Its just like religion. People who believe in jesus aren't looking for the truth. Because when their search for the truth leads them to question their beliefs about jesus, it scares them and it hurts their feelings. Same thing with racial issues. A lot of what I say will hurt people's feelings so they refuse to believe it, irrespective of how right I may be.

 

[cinna_man]

Most of what you say is true but I can't agree with the notion that there are no genetic differences among races (if that's what you're saying). I think the reason why so many blacks are in the NBA is partially because blacks are genetically gifted.

Take for instance the 100m sprint. No white person has ever been able to compete with the top 100m sprinters in the world. I don't see how you can say that's due to 100% cultural differences. There has surely been plenty of whites who would have loved to be a world class 100m sprinter. But no matter how hard they try, they will never make it.

No matter what variable you control, blacks consistently score lower on IQ tests. Even if IQ is not equal to intelligence, you still would have to admit that blacks are genetically different from whites and asians on some sort of mental level. Perhaps black people just think "differently." You can't tell me blacks, whites, and asians all think the same way on a genetic level when no matter what variables you control for, blacks and whites score differently.

I think regardless of whether or not what I'm saying is true, a lot of people would never in a million years agree with me. And simply because some truths are too hard to swallow. Its just like religion. People who believe in jesus aren't looking for the truth. Because when their search for the truth leads them to question their beliefs about jesus, it scares them and it hurts their feelings. Same thing with racial issues. A lot of what I say will hurt people's feelings so they refuse to believe it, irrespective of how right I may be.

Think of each race as a supposed separate gene pool. You will find all of the same genes in all of the pools, except for a handful. In biology, it would not be enough to label them distinct gene pools like species or even sub-species.

I'm not saying there is zero genetic difference between races. I'm saying that every race has about all of the genetic potential that another race has. The way those genes are expressed is what makes all the difference. You should read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston A. Price (here's a link: http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html). Price goes around to indigenous tribes all over the world to learn of the effects of modern civilization (primarily diet, but exercise/sleep/etc in the lifestyle matter too). I'll use the African example since this forum seems to be predominantly African in origin.

Wide dental arches, strong cheekbones, etc. Good overall facial development. This is what people have come to see as the "standard" type of race in black people.

Narrower arches, underbites, weaker cheekbones, weaker jaws... This is sort of what's become synonymous with the typical white face. Why? Well, these are the changes you see when civilization hits with it's lower fat, higher sugar, lower protein, less exercise, and less sleep protocol. White people have lived in civilization longer, and the epigenetic changes have built up leading to the difference we have today. Even still though, they're not permanent. They say that it takes a few generations to fully reverse the changes through a different diet and lifestyle.


What's more, when you talk about the .001% of the population in the case of professional athletes, you're talking about folks who put extra effort into mastering their craft. This comes from a life of work, which is dictated by culture because no one decides at 5 years old to start working on their jumper to play in the NBA. Other people teach us. Could Mozart or Tiger Woods accomplish what they did if they weren't placed in the perfect situation to succeed?

To answer your questions about the NBA and the 100m sprint. We're not talking about anything important, so you shouldn't be looking at these examples as key differences in race. It would be like eating fries from Burger King and McDonalds and then using as much detail as possible to differentiate them. Are 3 milligrams of salt more or less going to make that much of a difference?
-The NBA requires height more than anything. Here are the tallest people in the world: the Dutch, the Danish, the Dinardic Alps people (Serbians, Montenegrans, Croatia, etc), the Tutsuis and Dinkas of Africa. They all average over 6' in height. Guess what? They're also at the very top of dairy consumption in the world. It's no coincidence. Eating dietary fat and protein is what builds bones (calcium is overrated). In America, it could be argued that "soul food" and "junk food", while bad for you in some ways, actually provide more nutrients for growth than what is considered a healthy diet.
-The 100m dash is decided by a fraction of a second. If somebody runs a 10 flat (like white Chris Lemaitre), and someone else runs a 9.6 (like black Usain Bolt); does that really mean anything in the real world? That said, Jamaicans have the strongest "track culture" in the world going in their favor, so they produce far more track athletes than podunk France would, where Lemaitre is from. Furthermore, blacks have a slightly more tropically adapted body, which means longer limb ratios than whites on average. This gives them more efficient strides. I don't really believe the "greater amount of muscle fibers" myth regarding black people. Why wouldn't they dominate powerlifting? Eastern Europe does. Part of that is, again, cultural. But if Eastern Europe has the muscles that Africa does, then why don't they kick ass in sprints? I think it's limb ratios.

Other questions.....

-Black culture thinks differently than White and Asian culture. There have been no studies on IQ tests taken by populations of black people raised in white culture because that hasn't happened yet. People are quite segregated by their skin color. Black parents teach their kids black values which were taught to them by their parents, and if you go back far enough, those values were carried all the way from Africa via slave ships. Black people been more separatist regarding their cultural values than maybe any other culture because they're the most contrasting to modern civilization. Blacks came from tribes 300 years ago. Asians, Indians, almost all Europeans, etc had civilizations at that time. Look at Native Americans, Australian Aborigines, and Mexicans with large amounts of Aztec (or some other tribe's) blood. You see them being separatist to the same degree, although their cultures aren't as large in population, historically significant to America, or relevant to pop culture (ie music and sports), so it doesn't stand out.

-I agree that people struggle with inconvenient truths. I've looked at race from all angles. I think rather than nitpicking tiny things, you have to ask if the DNA is truly significantly different. I don't deny that African kinky hair is substantially different from European straight/wavy hair which is different from Asian/Native American super straight hair. I don't deny that Asians have flaps on the corners of their eyes. I don't deny that people living in tropical places tend to have longer limb ratios. Are they differences we have to accept and live with, like ketchup vs mayo? Or are they minutae differences, like more or less salt? The answer, to me, is clearly the latter. 95% of the different lies in the experiences (epigenetics and cultural belief) while 5% lies in the DNA.

The true inconvenient truth is that people can change and be what they want to be, but they'd rather blame god or genetics or some shyt so they can live without responsibility.

Not only does this truth mean you have to be responsible and stuff, but it means you're not a special snowflake when it comes to your genetics too.

Can white people give up thinking they're smarter and more accomplished than everyone? You know how much white people love being intellectual. I fukking hate that shyt. I love actual smartness, but I hate the pseudointellectual culture that makes non-smart people think they're smart.
Can they take responsibility for sucking on the athletic field because they play videogames all day and don't get exercise during their entire youth and they come from 3 generations of men and women who sat on their asses (leading to their possible epigenetic shortcomings)? I think they readily will because it's a fairly simple fix, even though it wasn't their fault.

Can black people give up thinking they're the baddest thugs, the best rappers, the best athletes, the best fukkers in the bedroom, etc? I know how much black people like to brag about that shyt. I see that being a hard thing to give up too.
Can they take responsibility for not performing in school? Not making enough money? Having communities ridden with crime? It's no fun taking responsibility for something that really wasn't their doing until recently (what with slavery, segregation, and all), but they will have to bite the bullet at some point.

Can all people give up their dogma, their agenda and look at others as equals?

 

[Drummage_EL]

Its a pipe dream for people that have already given up.

So you actually believe that blacks can one day prosper in America??? Never mind the fact that black americans are not really citizens here & people can pretty much do whatever they want to us here because we have no rights, only certain privileges.

Blacks are going to be here 5 decades from now still repeating that group economics mantra & fighting a losing battle.

 

[Hawaiian Punch]

Atlanta has one of the highest violent crime rates in the country. 99% of other cities in the U.S. have less violent crime than atlanta. Same for Baltimore. Only 4% of US cities are safer to live in than baltimore.

I don't mean to disgust you. This is just how I see the world bruh. I honestly want you to prove me wrong. I don't WISH it so that blacks are uncivilized. This is just how I see the world. Unfortunately, my views are so extreme that people always think I'm trolling or that I'm a white guy. I guess I just don't have that filter that most people have that prevents them from having extremely radical beliefs.

And for the record, could you name a predominately black city in africa that we should all look up to? I'm not asking for anything perfect, just something we can work with.

I will name 5:
Luanda, Angola (considered the most expensive place to live in the world)

N’Djamena, Chad
Libreville, Gabon
Niamey, Niger
Victoria, Seychelles

I feel no desire to debate you. Even if you are black I would encourage you to purchase skin lightening cream. You see the world through white lenses and I care not to change that view. But consider the fact that black people were forced to this country as slaves and stripped of their identity. When they finally gained their 'freedom' they were treated as second class citizens. Denied opportunites for job, loans and higher education because of their skin color (fact). Successful communities that were developed were attacked and destroyed. Community leaders that attempted to bring black people together were assassinated. Images in media portrayed us as servants and jungle savages...Yet after all of these attacks and injustices and denied opportunites you question our intelligence? You question why others who have never faced these injustices are in better positions than us? The civil rights act in this country was passed 50 years ago, yet we should be at the same level as those who had the same civil rights in the country for 400 years? And even in 2014 black people are denied job interviews because the names on their resume sound ethic. And you question us? How dare you

Let me be clear on this breh you disgust me. I pray you bleach your skin and marry a white woman and have light children, and they go on to marry white women until every trace of black that you 'claim' exists in you is erased.

 

[Crakface]

So you actually believe that blacks can one day prosper in America??? Never mind the fact that black americans are not really citizens here & people can pretty much do whatever they want to us here because we have no rights, only certain privileges.

Blacks are going to be here 5 decades from now still repeating that group economics mantra & fighting a losing battle.

Progress is slow and steady.

 

[Kritic]

Somebody named BarNone just sent me a private message saying that I used inappropriate language in this thread & accused me of being racist.

the way white folks got it set up the black community cannot rise up. eg the killing of mississippi mayor.
the black community is destroyed and any black leader that's trying to change it will be destroyed. that's the message. that's why all these black leaders are ending up "sick" and dead.
anyone who thinks we'll just somehow come out of this is lying to themselves.
this is what happens when you have surveillance in the hands of racist insecure ppl.


theyll have it down to where making a thread about it will be illegal punishable by banning and 50 yrs in prison.

 

[Everythingg]

I dont get some people on here. They know the markets are controlled. They know what happened to Black Wallstreet and Rosewood. And yet they think that they're gonna come up in economy uninhibited? Once yall start making progress they gonna off that movement guys. Gotta be smarter than them when it comes to the game.

EDIT: After reading the thread, I see people have already shared this sentiment. Didnt mean to piggyback off anyone but its good to see that people understand the problem of SUCCESSFULLY advancing in this economy. Not when its controlled. At best what we could do is advance then bounce like Garvey wanted. But people are scared to take that leap

 

[thaKEAF]

IMO it is a pipedream for this generation. If those of us with any type of sense raise kids who understand this concept at a young age, it is definitely possible in the future.

 

[Kritic]

IMO it is a pipedream for this generation. If those of us with any type of sense raise kids who understand this concept at a young age, it is definitely possible in the future.

so we're talking at least 100+ yrs before that make any impact culturally because most black parents think backwards..

 

[alpo]

I dont get some people on here. They know the markets are controlled. They know what happened to Black Wallstreet and Rosewood. And yet they think that they're gonna come up in economy uninhibited? Once yall start making progress they gonna off that movement guys. Gotta be smarter than them when it comes to the game.

EDIT: After reading the thread, I see people have already shared this sentiment. Didnt mean to piggyback off anyone but its good to see that people understand the problem of SUCCESSFULLY advancing in this economy. Not when its controlled. At best what we could do is advance then bounce like Garvey wanted. But people are scared to take that leap

We can't run tho, they are everywhere!

 

[bigDeeOT]

Think of each race as a supposed separate gene pool. You will find all of the same genes in all of the pools, except for a handful. In biology, it would not be enough to label them distinct gene pools like species or even sub-species.

You're assuming that because only a handful of genes are different, these handful of genes alone cannot be enough to change the way someone thinks. Why can't it be the case that a handful of genes makes one race think differently than another? Why can't it be the case that a handful of genes makes one race more prone to act violent than another?

I'm not saying there is zero genetic difference between races.

Thank goodness.

I'm saying that every race has about all of the genetic potential that another race has.

I don't believe this. How much longer do we have to wait before we can finally conclude that blacks are predisposed to act violent, have a tendency to be uncivilized, and are overall less intelligent than whites? If in three THOUSAND years from now, we still have a huge IQ gap between blacks and whites, would you still blame that on the legacy of slavery or cultural differences? If in three THOUSAND years from now, blacks still account for a disproportionate amount of violent crime in this country, would you still blame that on the legacy of slavery? How long do we have to wait for the gaps to close?

The way those genes are expressed is what makes all the difference...
...Even still though, they're not permanent. They say that it takes a few generations to fully reverse the changes through a different diet and lifestyle.

Ok, that's interesting. So what is the logical conclusion you're trying to make from that in terms of the topic at hand?

What's more, when you talk about the .001% of the population in the case of professional athletes, you're talking about folks who put extra effort into mastering their craft. This comes from a life of work, which is dictated by culture because no one decides at 5 years old to start working on their jumper to play in the NBA. Other people teach us. Could Mozart or Tiger Woods accomplish what they did if they weren't placed in the perfect situation to succeed?

I think it is a combination of genetics and environment. Environment plays the largest role by far, but the genetics acts as the ceiling. Without the right genetics, you're less likely to hit the professional league vs someone who's gifted.

To answer your questions about the NBA and the 100m sprint. We're not talking about anything important, so you shouldn't be looking at these examples as key differences in race.

I think it proves that when it comes to doing certain things, some races are BETTER at doing them than others. Do you deny the fact that africans are BETTER at the 100m sprint?

-The NBA requires height more than anything. Here are the tallest people in the world: the Dutch, the Danish, the Dinardic Alps people (Serbians, Montenegrans, Croatia, etc), the Tutsuis and Dinkas of Africa. They all average over 6' in height. Guess what? They're also at the very top of dairy consumption in the world. It's no coincidence. Eating dietary fat and protein is what builds bones (calcium is overrated). In America, it could be argued that "soul food" and "junk food", while bad for you in some ways, actually provide more nutrients for growth than what is considered a healthy diet.

White people in america eat junk food too.

-The 100m dash is decided by a fraction of a second. If somebody runs a 10 flat (like white Chris Lemaitre), and someone else runs a 9.6 (like black Usain Bolt); does that really mean anything in the real world?

Absolutely. That fraction of a second makes all the difference in the world when the africans will ALWAYS win by a fraction of a second. When I say always I mean like at least 80-90% of the time. That fraction of a second wouldn't matter if half the time white people would win by a fraction of a second.

That said, Jamaicans have the strongest "track culture" in the world going in their favor, so they produce far more track athletes than podunk France would, where Lemaitre is from. Furthermore, blacks have a slightly more tropically adapted body, which means longer limb ratios than whites on average. This gives them more efficient strides. I don't really believe the "greater amount of muscle fibers" myth regarding black people. Why wouldn't they dominate powerlifting? Eastern Europe does. Part of that is, again, cultural. But if Eastern Europe has the muscles that Africa does, then why don't they kick ass in sprints? I think it's limb ratios.

Limb ratios... so then genetics.

Other questions.....

-Black culture thinks differently than White and Asian culture. There have been no studies on IQ tests taken by populations of black people raised in white culture because that hasn't happened yet.

You don't think there has been blacks raised in white culture? Or do you mean, there have been no studies done on blacks raised in white culture?

People are quite segregated by their skin color. Black parents teach their kids black values which were taught to them by their parents, and if you go back far enough, those values were carried all the way from Africa via slave ships. Black people been more separatist regarding their cultural values than maybe any other culture because they're the most contrasting to modern civilization. Blacks came from tribes 300 years ago. Asians, Indians, almost all Europeans, etc had civilizations at that time. Look at Native Americans, Australian Aborigines, and Mexicans with large amounts of Aztec (or some other tribe's) blood. You see them being separatist to the same degree, although their cultures aren't as large in population, historically significant to America, or relevant to pop culture (ie music and sports), so it doesn't stand out.

So what conclusion would you draw from this?

-I agree that people struggle with inconvenient truths.

Oh absolutely. Look at religious people.

I've looked at race from all angles. I think rather than nitpicking tiny things, you have to ask if the DNA is truly significantly different.

Again, perhaps all it takes is three genes out of a billion genes, to make a race predisposed to be less civilized than others.

I don't deny that African kinky hair is substantially different from European straight/wavy hair which is different from Asian/Native American super straight hair. I don't deny that Asians have flaps on the corners of their eyes. I don't deny that people living in tropical places tend to have longer limb ratios. Are they differences we have to accept and live with, like ketchup vs mayo? Or are they minutae differences, like more or less salt? The answer, to me, is clearly the latter. 95% of the different lies in the experiences (epigenetics and cultural belief) while 5% lies in the DNA.

Why do people accept that racial groups have physical differences but not mental differences? Asians on average have smaller penises than blacks do. Clearly there are physical differences among racial groups. So why can't there be mental ones? Why would nature draw an imaginary boundary and say ok, let there be physical differences among races but no mental ones? That doesn't make any sense.

The true inconvenient truth is that people can change and be what they want to be, but they'd rather blame god or genetics or some shyt so they can live without responsibility.
Not only does this truth mean you have to be responsible and stuff, but it means you're not a special snowflake when it comes to your genetics too.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I've seen people use it as an excuse to not learn math. I'm pretty sure 95% of the time its just because they're too lazy or afraid to do it.

Can all people give up their dogma, their agenda and look at others as equals?

Racial groups are not equals.

Lets try a thought experiment. If it turns out that everything I am saying is true, if black people really do think differently from white people, would it be racist to acknowledge it?