Is Mandatory Sentencing The Solution To Justice Inequality

[Mr. Somebody]

Should there be a fixed amount of time served for each crime on the books and will this solution end inequality as it concerns justice in the courtroom.

 

[Everythingg]

Sounds like a good plan but at times with cases, there are variables that would interfere

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Sounds like a good plan but at times with cases, there are variables that would interfere

Such as.

 

[tmonster]

did they not try and are trying this already (immigration and drugs) with disastrous results due to selectivity and partiality in determining which crimes fall under mandatory sentencing?

Why Is a Florida Man Facing Life in Prison For Lending a Friend His Car and Going to Sleep?
Ryan Holle, who has no prior record, is currently serving his eleventh year of a life sentence.

Charles Grodin
March 24, 2014

(AP Photo)

About the Author
Charles Grodin
Charles Grodin is an advocate for non-violent inmates. He is the receipient of the William Kunstler for Racial Justice...

Several years ago I read a piece in The New York Times by Adam Liptak about Ryan Holle. Ryan, who had no prior record, is serving a life sentence with no chance of parole in Florida. He was convicted of pre-meditated murder, even though no one, including the prosecutor, disputes that Ryan was asleep in his bed at home at the time of the crime. This could only happen in America, because we are the only country that retains the Felony Murder Rule. What the Felony Murder Rule essentially says is if anyone has anything to do with a felony in which a murder takes place, such as a robbery, that person is as guilty as the person who has committed the murder. Every other country including England, India and Canada has gotten rid of it because of its unintended consequences. In America, Michigan, Kentucky and Hawaii no longer have the law. The Canadian Supreme Court ruled, when they discarded the Felony Murder Rule, that a person should be held responsible for his own actions not the actions of others.

Exactly what did Ryan Holle do? At a party in his apartment over ten years ago, he lent his car to his roommate and went to sleep. He had lent his car to his roommate many times before with no negative consequences. This time the roommate and others went to a house where they knew a woman was selling marijuana from a safe. They planned to get the marijuana, but in the course of their break-in a teenage girl was killed. Those at the scene all received appropriately harsh sentences, but so did Ryan Holle. I got involved with the case shortly after I read Adam Liptak’s piece. I have been advocating on behalf of clemency for Ryan, who was first offered a plea deal of ten years but chose to go to trial. I’m sure it was difficult for a young man, who had never been arrested, and who believed he had done nothing to accept that he should go to prison for ten years, so he went to trial, was convicted and sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole. He is now in his eleventh year of incarceration. Again, this is a young man who was home asleep in bed at the time of the crime. I personally know of no other felony murder conviction where the person was not even present, and the pre-meditated part of the conviction suggests that Ryan knew his car was going to be used in the course of a murder, which to me, isn’t credible. To the best of my knowledge, in the entire history of the criminal justice system in America, no one has ever been convicted and sentenced to life in prison for loaning a car and going to sleep.

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A few years ago I was on a television show with the father of the girl who was murdered in the robbery attempt. The father felt that it was entirely justified that Ryan Holle spend his life in prison. At the time, I couldn’t bring myself to say what I was feeling. I felt the father and mother were a lot more responsible for their daughter’s death than Ryan Holle. The mother did actually serve three years in prison for selling drugs, but both parents in no way should have been involved in selling drugs from their house. It would only be a question of time before the wrong person knocked on the door. In my judgment, parents who would do that with two teenage daughters at home have a lot more responsibility for this tragedy than Ryan Holle.

Ryan writes me from prison telling me that when he gets out, he plans to speak out against the Felony Murder Rule. Unless people of good will and common sense publicize his case, Ryan Holle will die in prison.

Note: Since writing the above, I have been told that Ryan was just denied clemency.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

did they not try and are trying this already (immigration and drugs) with disastrous results due to selectivity and partiality in determining which crimes fall under mandatory sentencing?

Why Is a Florida Man Facing Life in Prison For Lending a Friend His Car and Going to Sleep?
Ryan Holle, who has no prior record, is currently serving his eleventh year of a life sentence.

Charles Grodin
March 24, 2014

(AP Photo)

About the Author
Charles Grodin
Charles Grodin is an advocate for non-violent inmates. He is the receipient of the William Kunstler for Racial Justice...

Several years ago I read a piece in The New York Times by Adam Liptak about Ryan Holle. Ryan, who had no prior record, is serving a life sentence with no chance of parole in Florida. He was convicted of pre-meditated murder, even though no one, including the prosecutor, disputes that Ryan was asleep in his bed at home at the time of the crime. This could only happen in America, because we are the only country that retains the Felony Murder Rule. What the Felony Murder Rule essentially says is if anyone has anything to do with a felony in which a murder takes place, such as a robbery, that person is as guilty as the person who has committed the murder. Every other country including England, India and Canada has gotten rid of it because of its unintended consequences. In America, Michigan, Kentucky and Hawaii no longer have the law. The Canadian Supreme Court ruled, when they discarded the Felony Murder Rule, that a person should be held responsible for his own actions not the actions of others.

Exactly what did Ryan Holle do? At a party in his apartment over ten years ago, he lent his car to his roommate and went to sleep. He had lent his car to his roommate many times before with no negative consequences. This time the roommate and others went to a house where they knew a woman was selling marijuana from a safe. They planned to get the marijuana, but in the course of their break-in a teenage girl was killed. Those at the scene all received appropriately harsh sentences, but so did Ryan Holle. I got involved with the case shortly after I read Adam Liptak’s piece. I have been advocating on behalf of clemency for Ryan, who was first offered a plea deal of ten years but chose to go to trial. I’m sure it was difficult for a young man, who had never been arrested, and who believed he had done nothing to accept that he should go to prison for ten years, so he went to trial, was convicted and sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole. He is now in his eleventh year of incarceration. Again, this is a young man who was home asleep in bed at the time of the crime. I personally know of no other felony murder conviction where the person was not even present, and the pre-meditated part of the conviction suggests that Ryan knew his car was going to be used in the course of a murder, which to me, isn’t credible. To the best of my knowledge, in the entire history of the criminal justice system in America, no one has ever been convicted and sentenced to life in prison for loaning a car and going to sleep.

Please support our journalism. Get a digital subscription for just $9.50!

A few years ago I was on a television show with the father of the girl who was murdered in the robbery attempt. The father felt that it was entirely justified that Ryan Holle spend his life in prison. At the time, I couldn’t bring myself to say what I was feeling. I felt the father and mother were a lot more responsible for their daughter’s death than Ryan Holle. The mother did actually serve three years in prison for selling drugs, but both parents in no way should have been involved in selling drugs from their house. It would only be a question of time before the wrong person knocked on the door. In my judgment, parents who would do that with two teenage daughters at home have a lot more responsibility for this tragedy than Ryan Holle.

Ryan writes me from prison telling me that when he gets out, he plans to speak out against the Felony Murder Rule. Unless people of good will and common sense publicize his case, Ryan Holle will die in prison.

Note: Since writing the above, I have been told that Ryan was just denied clemency.

Just seems like a demonic judge or prosecutor is involved in this case. If they cant prove he had knowledge of what was taking place then obviously, he shouldnt be going to prison.

 

[tmonster]

Just seems like a demonic judge or prosecutor is involved in this case.

it's not just on case breh

If they cant prove he had knowledge of what was taking place then obviously, he shouldnt be going to prison.

read your thread title, that's the problem your suggestion creates
/thread

 

[Mr. Somebody]

it's not just on case breh

I think that part of the law should be done away with and has nothing to do with the person that actually committed the crime. Its convoluted to say lending someone a car who commits a crime without knowing they are going to do it, is a crime, friend. Thats a demonic interpretation of the law that has nothing to do with what im talking about right now, friend.

 

[tmonster]

I think that part of the law should be done away with and has nothing to do with the person that actually committed the crime. Its convoluted to say lending someone a car who commits a crime without knowing they are going to do it, is a crime, friend. Thats a demonic interpretation of the law that has nothing to do with what im talking about right now, friend.

this is how mandatory sentence has been used
it's problematic...inherently as is the dispensation of justice

 

[Mr. Somebody]

this is how mandatory sentence has been used
it's problematic...inherently as is the dispensation of justice

Well im saying it should be changed then because its to much of an arch in justice. Someone with a brain should revamp that aspect of it, friend. My idea is right.

 

[Everythingg]

Such as.

You really need an example? Lets say a 18 year old was sexually abused by his uncle and then murdered his uncle because of it. Now the mandatory sentencing demands that the 18 year old be put to death. But do you not see how the outside circumstances should be accounted for in the situation? Without mandatory sentencing, that could be the case. With it, you can see the problems right?

 

[Mr. Somebody]

You really need an example? Lets say a 18 year old was sexually abused by his uncle and then murdered his uncle because of it. Now the mandatory sentencing demands that the 18 year old be put to death. But do you not see how the outside circumstances should be accounted for in the situation? Without mandatory sentencing, that could be the case. With it, you can see the problems right?

That boy should go to the police. The law is the law. Unless the boy killed the man in the act or after the act of abuse, which would be self defense. Murder is murder and we have to act on principles of laws, friend. Unless you think sentencing should be left to someone with a bias, i dont see how that system is better then what im reccomending.

If a gang members friend is killed and he then kills the man who killed his friend, should he be sentenced less then the man who killed his friend? Murder is murder.

 

[tmonster]

My idea is right.

ok friend

 

[Everythingg]

That boy should go to the police. The law is the law. Unless the boy killed the man in the act or after the act of abuse, which would be self defense. Murder is murder and we have to act on principles of laws, friend. Unless you think sentencing should be left to someone with a bias, i dont see how that system is better then what im reccomending.

If a gang members friend is killed and he then kills the man who killed his friend, should he be sentenced less then the man who killed his friend? Murder is murder.

My point is that there are outside circumstances that can get in the way of "mandatory" sentencing. What your situation implies is that we should not take into account that the boy was sexually abused and that being the possible reason of the killing. Dont you think we should take that into account in his sentencing? Or ignore it? I would think that we should take it into account but with your logic we should ignore it and give him the mandatory sentencing.

The gang member stuff is irrelevant and isnt in tune with the analogy I presented. Respectfully I say that.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

My point is that there are outside circumstances that can get in the way of "mandatory" sentencing. What your situation implies is that we should not take into account that the boy was sexually abused and that being the possible reason of the killing. Dont you think we should take that into account in his sentencing? Or ignore it? I would think that we should take it into account but with your logic we should ignore it and give him the mandatory sentencing.

The gang member stuff is irrelevant and isnt in tune with the analogy I presented. Respectfully I say that.

To be equal, all circumstances should be ignored and children should be more educated on the laws in schools.

If you are an adult who kills a man because of something he did to you, you're a murderer and once you give preferential treatment to one it opens the door for others to interpret the laws more loosely which opens the demonic flood gates.

Again if you're being assaulted and kill a man, thats one thing, If you're being assaulted, go home, get a gun, go back and kill, you should go to Prison the same as any other murderer. If you dont trust the law to give you justice then the problem is there.

Many people that kill feel justified in what they do friend. We cant get into that, we just give that flat fee for a crime and keep it moving.

 

[Everythingg]

To be equal, all circumstances should be ignored and children should be more educated on the laws in schools.

If you are an adult who kills a man because of something he did to you, you're a murderer and once you give preferential treatment to one it opens the door for others to interpret the laws more loosely which opens the demonic flood gates.

Again if you're being assaulted and kill a man, thats one thing, If you're being assaulted, go home, get a gun, go back and kill, you should go to Prison the same as any other murderer. If you dont trust the law to give you justice then the problem is there.

Many people that kill feel justified in what they do friend. We cant get into that, we just give that flat fee for a crime and keep it moving.

So answer the question. During sentencing we shouldnt take into account the anger/pain the man caused in sexually abusing the boy when sentencing the boy? That pain/anger that was caused because of a crime should in no way be taken into account is what you're saying?