Let’s have a mature discussion on hip hop, eras and expectations

tybo

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So let me start by saying I am one of the :flabbynsick: on this board. Perhaps my perspectives are skewed based on the prism through which I observe and engage hip hop. I grew up on Sedgwick Ave., one building over from where hip hop was born. So I was born into it. It runs through my blood. I couldn’t ignore it even if I tried (and I have).

All that said, I am curious to hear your thoughts on whether the industry has used ageism to dilute the quality of hip hop music, commercially at least. Every time an old head laments the state of the game a younger brother says “that’s just because you flabby and sick”...that phrase is still funny as hell, even when it’s used on me :pachaha:. The narrative is dangerous though. It suggests that just because you’re younger your standards should be lowered and your expectations of artists should be waived. Nas was a legend as a teenager. Mob Deep was changing the game as teens as well. Rakim, Kane, BDK was barely in their 20’s while dropping classics. It didn’t matter the coast either. From Cube and Snoop to Kast and Goodie Mob the QUALITY was tremendous. They influenced young gods like Kendrick, Cole, Drake (older stuff that I will assume that he actually wrote), Big Sean, etc. At some point, which I rather not give my opinion on, expectations were dramatically lowered for quality (again I stress mainstream). There became a universal acceptance for repetitive, non-unique conformist beats and flows. Swag moved to the forefront and vibe overtook creativity. This has been a slippery slope. Do you see it differently? If so why? Are you more optimistic? Is there a perspective I am overlooking? I have a genuine interest in being edified. I’m eager to hear your thoughts on this, hopefully in a mature fashion on a HIP HOP board we all love.
 

Street Knowledge

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Half these rap nikkas are older than me so I always thought the “you don’t like insert rapper here cause you old” was hilarious:russ:
 

ISO

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Y'all showed y'all ass yesterday claiming y'all don't know who Travis Scott, Lil Baby, or Fivio Foreign are :mjlol:

And it's no point in linking y'all to tracks because if the artist isn't rhyming like '99 Mos Def he's :trash:

Y'all can't keep knocking the cultural expressions of the youth like that Tribe song goes "the music of our youth since 1979"

There's a lot of dope shyt going on that even objectively you have to respect artistically and sonically from these new artists and there's a lot of diversity in the game at the moment but ya'll choose to focus on top 40 radio singles and y'all think everything sounds the same when it doesn't. :hubie:
 

tybo

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Y'all showed y'all ass yesterday claiming y'all don't know who Travis Scott, Lil Baby, or Fivio Foreign are :mjlol:

And it's no point in linking y'all to tracks because if the artist isn't rhyming like '99 Mos Def he's :trash:

Y'all can't keep knocking the cultural expressions of the youth like that Tribe song goes "the music of our youth since 1979"

There's a lot of dope shyt going on that even objectively you have to respect artistically and sonically from these new artists and there's a lot of diversity in the game at the moment but ya'll choose to focus on top 40 radio singles and y'all think everything sounds the same when it doesn't. :hubie:
So I went to a Travis Scott concert while I was in Vegas last year and he was AMAZING!!! His energy was off the charts and he really engaged the crowd. Gained a lot of respect from me. Gave me new appreciation for his music.
 

get these nets

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OP,
If you're from that era....you wouldn't think that age-ism is new to hip hop.
When Rakim came out, he made damned near EVERYTHING that came before him obsolete to the young fans of the music.
Melle Mel is one of the GOATS, but when I was a kid....after Kane,Rakim,Krs came out...Melle might as well have been 75 years old. He was over as far as we were concerned.
 

TripleAgent

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OP,
If you're from that era....you wouldn't think that age-ism is new to hip hop.
When Rakim came out, he made damned near EVERYTHING that came before him obsolete to the young fans of the music.
Melle Mel is one of the GOATS, but when I was a kid....after Kane,Rakim,Krs came out...Melle might as well have been 75 years old. He was over as far as we were concerned.
I don't totally disagree with you, but the 80s and 90s eras were skill based. The MCs you listed were exponentially better than Melle Mel, so it made some sense. What I think OP is referring to is the complete opposite, a regression, which isn't natural. nikkas are damn near proud to be wack now, which makes no real sense.
 

get these nets

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I don't totally disagree with you, but the 80s and 90s eras were skill based. The MCs you listed were exponentially better than Melle Mel, so it made some sense. What I think OP is referring to is the complete opposite, a regression, which isn't natural. nikkas are damn near proud to be wack now, which makes no real sense.
thanks, good point
 

tybo

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OP,
If you're from that era....you wouldn't think that age-ism is new to hip hop.
When Rakim came out, he made damned near EVERYTHING that came before him obsolete to the young fans of the music.
Melle Mel is one of the GOATS, but when I was a kid....after Kane,Rakim,Krs came out...Melle might as well have been 75 years old. He was over as far as we were concerned.
I completely feel that. I think the difference then was the older guard felt they were being boxed out because the technical evolution of hip hop was happening faster than they could keep up with.
 

JustCKing

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I don't totally disagree with you, but the 80s and 90s eras were skill based. The MCs you listed were exponentially better than Melle Mel, so it made some sense. What I think OP is referring to is the complete opposite, a regression, which isn't natural. nikkas are damn near proud to be wack now, which makes no real sense.

But being wack is subjective. Obviously, rap music has moved away from being about skills and more about the overall vibe. It isn't about the Wow effect of "did you hear what he just said", "let me rewind that". It is more about the vibe. Among the new rappers, I don't really see the discussions about lyrics because it really isn't about these guys wanting to be Top anything. I feel like Kendrick, Cole, and Drake are the last era that really competed to be the best. With this new crop of rappers, I don't hear or see the competitive side. They make their songs and keep it moving. The campaigning for being "the best rapper alive" or "GOAT" doesn't seem to be a factor with them like when we saw Wayne screaming it.
 

CrimsonTider

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So let me start by saying I am one of the :flabbynsick: on this board. Perhaps my perspectives are skewed based on the prism through which I observe and engage hip hop. I grew up on Sedgwick Ave., one building over from where hip hop was born. So I was born into it. It runs through my blood. I couldn’t ignore it even if I tried (and I have).

All that said, I am curious to hear your thoughts on whether the industry has used ageism to dilute the quality of hip hop music, commercially at least. Every time an old head laments the state of the game a younger brother says “that’s just because you flabby and sick”...that phrase is still funny as hell, even when it’s used on me :pachaha:. The narrative is dangerous though. It suggests that just because you’re younger your standards should be lowered and your expectations of artists should be waived. Nas was a legend as a teenager. Mob Deep was changing the game as teens as well. Rakim, Kane, BDK was barely in their 20’s while dropping classics. It didn’t matter the coast either. From Cube and Snoop to Kast and Goodie Mob the QUALITY was tremendous. They influenced young gods like Kendrick, Cole, Drake (older stuff that I will assume that he actually wrote), Big Sean, etc. At some point, which I rather not give my opinion on, expectations were dramatically lowered for quality (again I stress mainstream). There became a universal acceptance for repetitive, non-unique conformist beats and flows. Swag moved to the forefront and vibe overtook creativity. This has been a slippery slope. Do you see it differently? If so why? Are you more optimistic? Is there a perspective I am overlooking? I have a genuine interest in being edified. I’m eager to hear your thoughts on this, hopefully in a mature fashion on a HIP HOP board we all love.
First off, what you don’t like doesn’t not equal lower quality or less than standard. All of that is subjective

most importantly it’s called HIP hop. It’s the fastest progressing music that’s been invented. The beauty of hiphop is how fast it moves on to the next sound

next, rap music has always been swag and vibe. How you say something will always be more important than what you say or barz
 

CrimsonTider

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I don't totally disagree with you, but the 80s and 90s eras were skill based. The MCs you listed were exponentially better than Melle Mel, so it made some sense. What I think OP is referring to is the complete opposite, a regression, which isn't natural. nikkas are damn near proud to be wack now, which makes no real sense.
You have to define wack.

someone prioritizing melody, hook writing and quotables over metaphors and syllables doesn’t make you wack


There’s plenty of rap fans that think the similes/punchline rap that y’all thought was lyrical is largely corny
 

TripleAgent

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But being wack is subjective. Obviously, rap music has moved away from being about skills and more about the overall vibe. It isn't about the Wow effect of "did you hear what he just said", "let me rewind that". It is more about the vibe. Among the new rappers, I don't really see the discussions about lyrics because it really isn't about these guys wanting to be Top anything. I feel like Kendrick, Cole, and Drake are the last era that really competed to be the best. With this new crop of rappers, I don't hear or see the competitive side. They make their songs and keep it moving. The campaigning for being "the best rapper alive" or "GOAT" doesn't seem to be a factor with them like when we saw Wayne screaming it.
But they know. You will find a lot of them bragging about not being skilled. It's probably an excuse to dumb the music down and get away with being trash, but that doesn't change it.
 
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