Let's keep it real: Patrick Ewing was a better college Basketball player than Michael Jordan

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More dominate
Better resume
Did a lot more with less than MJ did at UNC-CH
A lot more team success. Three Final Fours and National Championship games.
Barely losing to UNC due to a MJ game-winner which Ewing who was a true freshman was the best player with James Worthy that day. MJ was a role player on that Tar Heels team.

Beating a Houston team with Akeem who was also a superstar for the NCAA title and won the most outstanding player.

Lost to Villanova on some bullshyt in the NCAA natty.

MJ had elite squads in his Soph and Junior years. In his junior year, he had Brad Dougherty (1st overall), Kenny Smith (top 5), Sam Perkins (4th overall) and MJ (3rd overall).

Lost to a trash UGA team lead by Dominique Wilkins.

Then got smoked by Bobby Knight and Indiana in the next season.

This is MJ's awards:
1981-82 ACC Rookie of the Year
1982 All-ACC Tournament - 1st Team
1982 NCAA All-Tournament
1982-83 All-ACC - 1st Team
1982-83 Sporting News Player of the Year
1982-83 Consensus All-America - 1st Team
1983 All-ACC Tournament - 2nd Team
1983 NCAA Tournament All-Region
1983-84 ACC Player of the Year
1983-84 All-ACC - 1st Team
1983-84 AP Player of the Year
1983-84 NABC Player of the Year
1983-84 Naismith Award
1983-84 Rupp Trophy
1983-84 Sporting News Player of the Year
1983-84 UPI Player of the Year
1983-84 USBWA Player of the Year
1983-84 Wooden Award
1983-84 Consensus All-America - 1st Team
1984 All-ACC Tournament - 2nd Team


Look at Ewing awards:
1981-82 All-Big East - 2nd Team
1981-82 Big East All-Freshman
1981-82 Big East Defensive Player of the Year
1981-82 Big East Rookie of the Year
1982 All-Big East Tournament - 1st Team
1982 NCAA All-Tournament
1982 NCAA Tournament All-Region
1982-83 All-Big East - 1st Team
1982-83 Big East Defensive Player of the Year
1982-83 Consensus All-America - 1st Team
1983-84 All-Big East - 1st Team
1983-84 Big East Defensive Player of the Year
1983-84 Big East Player of the Year
1983-84 Consensus All-America - 1st Team
1984 All-Big East Tournament - 1st Team
1984 Big East Tournament MVP
1984 NCAA All-Tournament
1984 NCAA Tournament All-Region
1984 NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player
1984-85 All-Big East - 1st Team
1984-85 AP Player of the Year
1984-85 Big East Defensive Player of the Year
1984-85 Big East Player of the Year
1984-85 NABC Player of the Year
1984-85 Naismith Award
1984-85 Rupp Trophy
1984-85 Sporting News Player of the Year
1984-85 Consensus All-America - 1st Team
1985 All-Big East Tournament - 1st Team
1985 Big East Tournament MVP
1985 NCAA All-Tournament
1985 NCAA Tournament All-Region

 
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ITS COMMON KNOWLEGDE JORDAN WAS HELD BACK BY DEAN SMITH.


:devil:
:evil:

Why do people, especially MJ stans continue to repeat this? MJ was a college player of the year and Dean Smith's four corners offense was the best perimeter-based offense of its time. No one in college was going iso like that in the early to mid-1980s. The college game wasn't played to the dribble drive and fast-break which was MJ's specialty we saw in Chicago when he was in the NBA.
 

ISO

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Yeah, Ewing was a big deal in college. People thought he would be “the next Bill Russell”. The whole first draft lottery he was the prize it was a big deal. Ewing is sadly forgotten because he never won a title but he’s a legend.

As a college player he ranks higher than Jordan. Why did you make that thread that B.S. poll that ESPN did?
 

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Yeah, Ewing was a big deal in college. People thought he would be “the next Bill Russell”. The whole first draft lottery he was the prize it was a big deal. Ewing is sadly forgotten because he never won a title but he’s a legend.

As a college player he ranks higher than Jordan. Why did you make that thread that B.S. poll that ESPN did?
Bill Russell or bust. I think people assumed because Ewing carried average players in college that he would do the same in the NBA and win. The NBA even rigged the draft for him.

I made this thread for the idiots who don't realize how good these guys were before the NBA. Ewing was the #1 recruit in the nation.

Read this:
The other day we in New York had a small river of crocodile tears running through our sports world. The occasion was Patrick Ewing's return to New York for the first time since he was traded to Seattle in the offseason.



a_ewing_i.jpg

Patrick Ewing's return to New York as a Sonic on Feb. 27 was overhyped and insincere.
Not only was the occasion -- like so many others in sports -- overhyped, the idea being that this was an important event for serious New York sports fans and that the emotions on all sides would be powerful. But the candor displayed by the majority of sportswriters was of dubious authenticity.


I realize the need for some kind of midseason hype -- the season is a long one, marked by endless patches of midwinter gray, and anything fresh to write about is to be seized upon. But I also happen to know what many of the sportswriters who contributed to the night of Ewing nostalgia think about Ewing and his game, and it is significantly less than how they wrote about both.


Having been scorned a thousand times in postgame lockerroom interviews, in private, they are a great deal more scornful of him and the limitations of his game than they are in public. Nonetheless, there was an immense flurry of attention in all the local papers and on the local media, as if this game and this occasion truly mattered. The local media was simply desperate to find something to write about in a long season.


The game itself quickly came and mercifully passed. Ewing, an older player with bad knees who should have retired several seasons ago but who in the madness of contemporary sports salaries still makes $17 million a year, duly played his assigned role in the homecoming, displaying emotions rarely exhibited during his Knicks career.


Then it was all over, and he went his way, some $200,000 richer for the night's work.




The hype, as it always does in contemporary sports, quickly receded. But it left me once again with the question of Ewing's career and the long-simmering debate about it, how good he really was -- and what went wrong. All week, local sportswriters had tried to make the case for him as a great player, coming up with varying excuses for his failure to win a championship:


  • The fact that his career coincided with that of Michael Jordan, and that therefore only Michael's greatness stood in his way;
  • The fact that the Knicks' front office was in turmoil in the early years, and there was too great a turnover in management and coaches;
  • And the fact that he lacked a worthy supporting cast that comparable great players enjoyed.


    Well, how great a player was Patrick Ewing?


    First, let me stipulate one critical ground rule: I do not believe that you have to win a championship to be a great player. There are -- especially from the days before free agency, when a player had less control over his career -- great players who never had the right players around them, and therefore did not win rings. Jerry West was a great player, and near the end of his career he finally and deservedly won a championship. But if Wilt Chamberlain had not leveraged his muscle into forcing a trade to Los Angeles, West might easily have finished his career kingless.


    Still, I most emphatically do not think Ewing was a great player. His statistics are awesome, he will surely make the Hall of Fame, and I know for a fact that he is listed among the league's 50 all-time best players included in the book published by the league itself on the occasion of its 50th anniversary. After all, I wrote the forward.


    Is he a very good player? I guess so. The Knicks in the years of his prime were always going to be respectable, though they were never going to surprise anyone. In the end, I came to hate watching them play: It was all so heavy and slow and predictable. I find him the most puzzling of players, talented, hard-working and, in the end, limited.


    His ability leveled out very early in his career, and unlike most very good and great players, he lacked a sense of or feel for the game that often made the best of them seem like coaches on the court. I think one of the most important things that happened during his career was that the game of basketball changed and he did not -- or could not. And as the game changed, it unveiled his weaknesses. He was better and more dominating in college, when he concentrated on defense and rebounding, than he was on the pros, when he seemed to think he was first and foremost a jump shooter.


    The tipoff to what most sportswriters really feel about him was evident during the homecoming week when they described him as a warrior. Ah, there it is, I thought, the W word. When basketball writers want to say something without being truly candid -- when they think a player works hard but in the end is not really talented -- they use the W word.


    Basketball, lest we forget, is not war; basketball is a game of speed, power and amazing quickness of reflexes. Now, more than 20 years ago, it is also about agility. In some odd way, for all of Ewing's vaunted statistics, the game was very hard for him, and he did not adjust very well to making it easier.


    When I first saw him -- back in high school All-American games -- I thought he was going to be a great pro, an assessment that seemed to be confirmed in college. He was big, strong, had come into his body early, for there was nothing ungainly about him at 18, which is unusual for a 7-footer. I had rarely seen a college big man run the floor that well. But the truth is that in the pros his game became heavy, his focus more on offense than on defense -- and centered more on his own shots than his teammates. He became a 7-foot jump shooter.


    He did not have particularly good hands or feet. As such, he was always turnover-prone. But I think the key to what made the game so hard were his reflexes. There is no scientific evidence here, but his reflexes -- especially his ability to react to loose balls -- struck me as being unusually slow by NBA standards; if there was a loose ball on the court, then someone like Dennis Rodman was at one end of the reflex gauge, and Ewing was at the other.


    a_ewing1_i.jpg

    Ewing's game with the Knicks became heavy, slow and predictable.
    That meant that he lacked what today's best players -- Jordan, Allen Iverson and others -- take for granted, the ability to start one move, and then to adjust in midmove to what the defense is doing, in effect running options off your own move.


    Once Ewing started a particular move, it was difficult for him to adjust to the swarming force of the defense which the predictability of his moves had inevitably triggered. Late in big games, everyone in the arena -- most relevantly the opposition and his teammates -- knew what Ewing was going to do on offense: He would take the ball on the side, drive to the key and take that jump shot.


    This also meant that he was unusually vulnerable to the strip because of the double team that almost always awaited him. It was a move which seemed to have no options off it, not the way he ran it. He became the most predictable of players in the most predictable of offenses. Like most professional basketball players, he chose to practice most what he was already good at, shooting, rather than work at what was obviously hard for him, passing.


    More than in any major sport, the key to basketball greatness is the ability to make other players better. Here is where Ewing is most vulnerable in his claim to greatness. No major player of the era which is now ending was worse at passing off the double team than Ewing.


    This limited his teammates, made it hard for them to play with him, and it made the New York offense an opposing coach's dream. When people claim that his biggest limitation was that he did not have quality teammates, the truth is that we don't really know how good they were because he never made them better. The ball was always his.


    His ego was tied to his scoring and to being the main man on offense. The offense had to be run through him. Yet his limited passing ability, and the slow way he reacted to the play developing so quickly around him, made that a flawed strategy. Still, we live in an age when most coaches are hostage to their superstars, and their superstars' agents, and that was surely part of the problem with Ewing -- there was little incentive for him to change.


    When Don Nelson arrived for a cameo run as Knick coach, the first thing he tried to do was to get Ewing to work on passing off the double. When Nelson first broached the subject to Ewing, his star player said nothing; he simply walked away. That seemed to close the subject. In time, it was Nelson who was let go.


    When Allan Houston signed with the Knicks, it was fascinating to watch the difference in his game with and without Ewing on the court. With Ewing playing, there was an almost crippling hesitation to Houston's game, as if he was dealing with an invisible defender. Do I dare take this shot? he seemed to be wondering. When Ewing went out for a couple of games, Houston finally seemed to blossom.


    a_ewing2_i.jpg

    Unfortunately for Ewing, shown in 1988, centers became less important as the athleticism of the players systemically went up.
    Over the years, we have watched other big-time players become better passers as they began to understand the truth of basketball, that truly great players had to be good -- if not great -- passers, and that the center who passed not only made his teammates better, but inevitably got better shots himself.


    In recent years the most dramatic improvement in Shaquille O'Neal's game is in his passing. But Ewing never improved. I think at a certain point he became a prisoner of his game and his ego. His game became heavier and heavier, and the teams he starred on late in his career were heavy as well -- pound the ball into the key and then pound the other team. It was basketball as rugby.


    That the game was difficult for him showed, I think, in the essentially joyless way he went about it. I realize that athletes do not have to be likeable, that basic charm is not necessarily part of the preparation for a sports career. I am all too aware that, for all professional athletes, the game is as much business as it is pleasure. Nonetheless, it is hard to think of any big-time sports figure who seemed to take so little pleasure in what he did each night, who went about his task so grimly.


    One of Michael Jordan's coaches, summing up his career, once said that he never gave the appearances that he had been sentenced by a judge to play professional basketball in Chicago. By contrast, Patrick Ewing almost always looked like he had been ordered to play by some unsympathetic higher power.


    One of the things that happened in the years that Ewing played was that the position of center became less important as the athleticism of the players systemically went up. The prototypical new stars were 6-6, 6-8, 6-10 complete players who could put the ball on the floor, move easily and fluidly with the ball, pass well, if need be, or offer up an ever-wider variety of shots off the dribble.


    That Portland would turn away from drafting Michael Jordan because it already had Clyde Drexler, who played the same position, and take Sam Bowie instead because Bowie was a classic center, seems less likely to happen today -- the people running the team would know there was room for both Drexler and Jordan in the same lineup, as there was room for Jordan and Scottie Pippen.


    The big man who adapted better to the changing league -- he came into the league at virtually the same time as Ewing -- was Hakeem Olajuwon. His game became far more creative and less predictable, and he became a very good passer off the double team. On defense he played like a center; on offense, he played like a small forward. Rarely has one player outplayed another the way Olajuwon outplayed David Robinson in their famed playoff series in the same season that Robinson was the league's most valuable player.


    That for me, was the performance of a truly great player.
 

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Ewing is overlooked because he had a Jordan problem (like everyone else in the 90s)...and he doesnt have a big personality.

This is a odd thread...who is arguing that Jordan was the best college player ever?
 

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Ewing is overlooked because he had a Jordan problem (like everyone else in the 90s)...and he doesnt have a big personality.

This is a odd thread...who is arguing that Jordan was the best college player ever?
Are you reading this thread? You had one poster mention Dean Smith, another fool start rambling like an idiot about the Olympics which took place after MJ's college career with other amateurs. The amount of idiots who would think MJ is the best college basketball player much less best of his era over far more accomplished players like Ralph Sampson and Ewing is pure foolishness.
 
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Mike (freshman): 13.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 1.8 apg
Worthy (junior): 15.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 2.4 apg
ewing (freshman): 12.7ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.6 apg

Worthy wasn't exactly blowing mike out of the water statistically. Team was pretty balanced. If jordan was a role player, what were matt doherty and jimmy black?

And the awards you listed, mj got 20 in 3 years then entered the draft. Ewing got 19 in 3 years. Came back for his senior year and scooped up an additional 13, so given context, the discrepancy doesn't mean much.
 

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Ewing is overlooked because he had a Jordan problem (like everyone else in the 90s)...and he doesnt have a big personality.

This is a odd thread...who is arguing that Jordan was the best college player ever?

nobody. Op is a MJ hater who has previously been on record saying that James harden and Steph are better offensive players than MJ. he has an agenda.
 
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