Lets Talk African History: The Moors. Who Were They?

Discussion in 'The Root' started by KidStranglehold, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Part One: The Summery

    "Lets Talk African History" is BACK... For a very late Black History month special. I've been wanting to badly do a thread like this for the longest, but just never got my chance to gather up all the information/date I needed. For this "Lets Talk African History", we're going to be talking about the big one... One of my favorite African people that many of you know, the Moors.
    [​IMG]
    -Encyclopædia of heraldry: or General armory of England, Scotland, and Ireland, comprising a registry of all armorial bearings from the earliest to the present time (1844) by John Burke, Sir Bernard Burke

    This thread is going to be your definitive information on the Moors. I'm not trying to brag at all, but some of you got your information on the Moors from sources like Hidden Colors or other sources like that which I fill did not go much in depth or do the Moors any favor. And while I did talk and debate about the Moors on here many times I feel I too did not go much in depth. Well, for this thread I'm going to be "going in" on the Moors on their deepest origins and how they really contributed to not only Africa and Southern Europe but the rest of the world.

    The Moors as many people know them were people from Northwest Africa who invaded Southern Europe(i.e Iberia and Sicily) and occupied it for 700 years! That is longer than slavery which lasted 245 years. I saw many people argue that Europeans/whites brutal slavery towards blacks could be vengeance for that. But moving on, the Moors contributed greatly to Northwest Africa, Southern Europe and the rest of the world. For example the success of later 'Gothic' architecture could be attributed to the introduction and popularization of pointed archs during the Almohad period. Another example with Al-Yasamin we owe the integration of the eastern and western algebraic traditions using Indian numerals. And if I remember correctly he was described as "black." Or Ibn Banna who we owe the denominator/numerator symbol to.

    Or lets talk about the Almohad Creed.

    And then we have their influence on astronomy.
    - -- Dr. M.C. Johnson, Manuscripts of the Bagdad astronomers, 760-1000 AD

    I can go on and on about their contributions but I'll talk about that stuff later. Moving along I notice from people who talk about the Moors is that they don't realize that "Moor" was just a term and nothing more. But what did it mean?
    Moor (n.) Look up Moor at Dictionary.com
    Online Etymology Dictionary

    So yes, the term meant "black" but as time went on it soon meant to describe Muslims in general especially the dark ones. However, anyone who still tries to discredit that the term meant black has to realize that the etymology of the term PREDATES Islam i.e with the Greeks and Romans.

    -A classical dictionary: containing a copious account of all proper names mentioned in ancient authors, with the value of coins, weights, and measures used among the Greeks and Romans, and a chronological table (1822) by John Lemprière

    So yes, the term "Moor" comes from the term "Mauri" which also meant "black." There is no way around that no matter how much certain people try to discredit it.

    "Buh! Buh! KidStranglehold! The Moors were led by the ARAB Umayyad and Fatimid caliphates! So why do you keep saying the Moors invaded Southern Europe!?" Yes, its true that they were under the Umayyad and Fatimid caliphates rule. HOWEVER, what people who say that forget is that the majority of the invasion and settlements were by the Moors themselves and led by the Moors themselves. I hate using Wikipedia but this part backs me up.
    Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia

    So yes, the invading army was majority Moors and LED BY Moors. The Arabs only came later. More importantly there is a reason why we call it "Moorish Spain" due to sources like this;
    -Richard Fletcher; Moorish Spain

    Again, the majority of the Muslim foreigners in Iberia were Moors with some Arabs or Syrians. Not only that, the Moors were also the government officials there. We especially see this in Sicily. Think of Iberia during that time as a "colony" of the Caliphate, but the Moors being the ones managing it since they were so close to Southern Europe. But more importantly it seems most people forget about the Almoravid and Almohad dynasties which had ZERO to do with the Arab Caliphates but were independent dynasties that ruled Iberia.

    But KidStranglehold who exactly were the Moors? Thats the million dollar question that everybody seems to neglect. And I notice this from not only Euroclowns but also blacks who try to argue for the Moors. The see the Moors as an actual ethnic instead of a term, but it gets more troubling when they neglect the ethnic origins on the Moors which makes their arguments sloppy no offense.

    But who were the Moors? The Moors were the BERBERS. And we can not repeat NOT debate the Moors ethnic origins without them. The Moors were majority Saharan Berbers with some West Africans mixed in. The Berbers that made up the Moors were the Sanhaja, Zenata, Lamtuna, Massufa, Gazula, Masmuda, Tuaregs and Katuma Berbers who were all described as "black" or even "negro." The Masmuda, Sanhaja and Zenata were the largest tribal groups in Northwest Africa at that time during the period of the Moors.

    The Moors/Berbers and the region of Northwest Africa is a VERY complex topic. Even more complex than discussing the Ancient Egyptians which is easy for laymen to get into. It took me a while to understand the Berber/Moors ethnic origins. But it gets worse when Euroclowns try to Eurasianize Northwest Africa and the Berbers. An because of that we're going to have to go back in the beginning and see what genetic e/anthropology tells us of the biological origins of the Berbers.

    To Be continued in next post
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
  2. Kripplestyle

    Kripplestyle Beaker

    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Daps Received:
    409
    Reppin:
    Chalkhill Road, London
    Reputation:
    -50
    Coli Cash:
    $200321.00

    :jbhmm::ehh::francis::ohhh::troll:
     
    KidStranglehold dapped this.
  3. Dip

    Dip diver, civilize you 85ers

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    25,544
    Daps Received:
    61,913
    Reputation:
    4,110
    Coli Cash:
    $344900.00

    Deh ya
     
    KidStranglehold dapped this.
  4. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Part Two: What Genetics/Bio-Anthropology tells us

    For this part we're going to be taking a more scientific approach to Northwest Africa and the Berbers. However, like I said we are going to be going back in time to understand the complexity of the Berbers and if they are African. The reason we are doing this is because many Euronuts online mainly Spanish, Portuguese and Sicilians whenever they take a DNA test and find out their paternal line is e1b1b they way they cope with having African ancestry on their paternal side is by trying to Eurasionize or "whitening up" Northwest Africa. To say, well... At least it was by OTHER Caucasoids. When that was not the case.

    Anyhow, I will be posting deep bio-anthropological material. If you do not understand it then please raise your hand and ask.

    Anyways, from my understandings it seems modern day Berbers descend from Nile Valley Berbers, Pre-historic Ancient Maghrebians, West Asians and finally Europeans. But again lets go back in time starting with the VERY first Northwest African population, the people of the Aterian culture(100k-40k iirc).

    --On the industrial attributions of the Aterian and Mousterian of the Maghreb, Harold L. Dibble et al.
    Journal of Human Evolution, 2013 Elsevier.


    Like I said people of the Aterians and Mausterian cultures were the very first people of Northwest Africa. And they were African. It is possible that these people were carriers of Haplogroup A which is a VERY old paternal African lineage. It is still found in very isolated Northwest African groups like those in Morocco which ironically is where both the Aterians and Mausterian cultures were located.

    http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(11)00164-9


    ^^There you have it, the deepest clades found in Central but also Northwest Africa. It can also be possible that this L3 African maternal lineages COULD have been associated with the Aterians, but we don't know...
    [​IMG]


    Moving on, the Aterian culture seen to have disappeared and was replaced. Here is where things get very tricky. Around 30,000 years ago it is said that Eurasian migrants from Western Asia migrated into the Maghreb and bought Haplogroup U6. We don't have no paternal lineages from them, all we have is U6.

    Haplogroup U6 (mtDNA)

    However, what did these "Eurasians" look like around 35,000 years ago?
    The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
    The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form

    And this is just the neolithic which is later than those supposed Eurasian back migrants. If the Neolithic Europeans and Middle Easterners are phenotypically distant from their modern populations then there is no way in hell that those Eurasian back migrants into Northwest Africa. This backs up the first source even more.

    [​IMG]

    Note how prehistoric Mediterraneans in phenotype are distant from their modern occupants. But it gets worse when we realize that pale skin especially in Europe only evolved quite recently.

    White Skin Developed in Europe Only As Recently as 8,000 Years Ago Say Anthropologists
    White Skin Developed in Europe Only As Recently as 8,000 Years Ago Say Anthropologists


    What I'm trying to say is that those "Eurasians" were not walking pale skinned Caucasoids because that would be pseudo-science, but instead Eurasians who mostly looked like these "Eurasians."
    [​IMG]

    Moving along, something very interesting happened with U6 and this study addresses it.
    What this is saying is that an SNP event or "mutation" undergone for U6. Meaning that the clade is not longer Eurasian but an African clade that is localized in the Maghreb. Think of it like this... The daughter of a European family moves to say Japan. She marries and have a child by one of the locals there. She no longer has a European surname but now a Japanese one and her kids are part Japanese. Her kids marries other locals and this continues for generations and generations.

    Or better example. The Scottish made fried chicken and they bring it to America. African-Americans bring their own twist to it by adding "season", not only making the fried chicken distant to its Scottish ancestor but the fried chicken we all know and love today. Fried chicken underwent a "mutation" in America. A good one at that. lol.

    This is what happened with U6. Not only that but the SNP event happened during the neolithic which was WEEEELLLL BEFORE the Bronze Age and definitely well before the period of the Moors. The study then states this.
    Divorcing the Late Upper Palaeolithic demographic histories of mtDNA haplogroups M1 and U6 in Africa

    So yes, they were absorbed by migrating AA speakers. We'll get to that one later. But one should NOTE all of this thus far has little to do with the original Berbers who descent from Northeast Africa and were a very recent group and where the Berber culture/language comes from. We are talking about the prehistoric Maghrebian people.
     
  5. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Continuation of part two:
    Moving along... Next we're going to discuss the Iberomaurusian industry which is said to have replaced the Aterian industry. I personally hate talking about the Iberomaurusian industry because it has always been so god damn confusion because both sides provided good arguments. But, recent discussions with people online far more informed than me on the subject has helped me paint a picture of them. It seems the Iberomaurusian industry was associated with those U6 carriers.

    What I've been told is that the early Ibermaurusian industry clustered more with Africans while later on it did with some Eurasians. A good poster from another site posted me this study where Pennarun talks about the close relationship between the Iberomaurusian and certain Nile Valley industries.
    --Pennarun et al 2012

    We see Upper Egypt listed first meaning that its the oldest in their dates. Not only that, but some sketelon samples in the Iberomaurusian showed African characteristics.
    WHAT BONES CAN TELL: BIOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE HUNTER-GATHERERS OF THE MAGHREB:


    The extremely large skeletal samples that come from sites such as Taforalt (Fig. 8.13) and Afalou constitute an invaluable resource for understanding the makers of Iberomaurusian artifacts, and their number is unparalleled elsewhere in Africa for the early Holocene. Frequently termed Mechta-Afalou or Mechtoid, these were a skeletally robust people and definitely African in origin, though attempts, such as those of Ferembach (1985), to establish similarities with much older and rarer Aterian skeletal remains are tenuous given the immense temporal separation between the two (Close and Wendorf 1990). At the opposite end of the chronological spectrum, dental morphology does suggest connections with later Africans, including those responsible for the Capsian Industry (Irish 2000) and early mid-Holocene human remains from the western half of the Sahara (Dutour 1989), something that points to the Maghreb as one of the regions from which people recolonised the desert (MacDonald 1998).

    Turning to what can be learned about cultural practices and disease, the individuals from Taforalt, the largest sample by far, display little evidence of trauma, though they do suggest a high incidence of infant mortality, with evidence for dental caries, arthritis, and rheumatism among other degenerative conditions. Interestingly, Taforalt also provides one of the oldest known instances of the practice of trepanation, the surgical removal of a portion of the cranium; the patient evidently survived for some time, as there are signs of bone regrowth in the affected area. Another form of body modification was much more widespread and, indeed, a distinctive feature of the Iberomaurusian skeletal sample as a whole. This was the practice of removing two or more of the upper incisors, usually around puberty and from both males and females, something that probably served as both a rite of passage and an ethnic marker (Close and Wendorf 1990), just as it does in parts of sub-Saharan Africa today (e.g., van Reenen 1987). Cranial and postcranial malformations are also apparent and may indicate pronounced endogamy at a much more localised level (Hadjouis 2002), perhaps supported by the degree of variability between different site samples noted by Irish (2000).



    --Lawrence Barham

    The First Africans: African Archaeology from the Earliest Toolmakers to Most Recent Foragers (Cambridge World Archaeology)

    Not only that but the Cambridge History of Africa seems to hint that the early people of the Iberomaurusian industry clustered more with Africans.
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    However, I have to be honest and admit again that there are some samples in the IM industry that clusters more with Eurasians. But all and all the Iberomaurusian had affinities with industries in the Nile Valley. There is a big gap between the Aterian and Iberomaurusian cultures. We don't know if descendants of the Aterian culture were those of the first Iberomaurusian culture. However, Aterian lineages still survive in Northwest Africa. But speaking on the Nile Valley... That is where our bio-anthropological adventures for the Berbers really starts.

    Like I said before the Berber ethnic origins/culture/language originated in Northeast Africa specially the Nile Valley. One roadblock me and others had was that "Berber marker" E-M81 was to young to be associated with the Iberomaurusian culture or even the Berber migration into the Maghreb.

    E-M81 was probably already in the Maghreb before the proto-Berber. The paternal line that carried the E-M81 mutation most likely breaks away from E-M35 around the same time when the Iberomaurusian industry started to spread in the coastal areas of the Maghreb (according to Trombetta et al, this paternal line emerged ~25ky ago).

    And like one of my sources stated Iberomaurusian tools were related to those in the Nile Valley where E-M35 comes from! But not only that I was told that E-M81 is not an important lineage east of the Nile Valley and is not even among Siwa Berbers, this all tells us that the branch that carries the E-M81 mutation left the eastern Sahara early. So with all this we can assume that the early people of the Iberomaurusian cultures were E-M35 carriers.

    This map paints a very sweet picture. :smile:
    [​IMG]

    ^^We see E-M35 leaving Northeast Africa and when it enters the Maghreb it "mutates" to E-M35. But also this study also adds as backup.

    The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations

    Also it seems that the indigenous Northwest African population in Carthage was still similar to the original Berbers as they still had Nile Valley characteristics. I'm still looking for that study. However, anthropologist S.O.Y. Keita does state this:
     
    MyopicEagle, tuckdog, SonnyEMC and 4 others dapped this.
  6. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Continuation of part two:

    Anyways, it seems Berbers still had this Nile Valley like characteristic going into the Moorish period! Hell, Berbers like the Tuaregs(who were apart of the Moors) still cluster closely with E-M35 carrying Northeast Africans like the Beja! Me and others have misunderstood to think that Siwa Berbers are not the "real Berbers" due to not carrying E-M81. However, its the opposite. E-M81 is not the "Berber marker" but instead just the "Maghreb marker." E-M35 is the true Berber marker in my opinion and the Siwa Berbers and Beja are good representations for the original Berbers.

    The Berbers during classical and medieval times would have had some Eurasian admixture from people like the Phoenicians, Vandels or Romans but the bulk of their Eurasian admixture came from expelled European Muslims/European slaves(I'll touch base on those two later). Again their prehistoric lineages would have become "localized" by the time of the neolithic which again was well before the period of the Moors.

    Modern Berbers seem to still have significant African admixture around 40+%.
    [​IMG]

    Meanwhile their paternal lineages seems to be predominately African.
    [​IMG]

    --Reguig A1, Harich N2, Barakat A1, Rouba H1.

    Hum Biol. 2014 Spring;86(2):105-12.

    Phylogeography of E1b1b1b-M81 haplogroup and analysis of its subclades in Morocco.


    Meanwhile their maternal side seems to be mixed and more (recent)Eurasian. However, all in all modern day Northwest Africans especially Moroccans still seem to have significant African ancestry/admixture.

    But whats interesting and what seems to correlate with the Moors is that when we look at the bio-structure of modern day Northwest Africans and I always said this, is that they appear to be a result of African men and European women. This study backs this up.

    They then conclude...
    http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=humbiol_preprints

    But when talking about AFRICAN maternal lineages for Berbers we get this:
    Ancient local evolution of African mtDNA haplogroups in Tunisian Berber populations.
    Ancient local evolution of African mtDNA haplogroups in Tunisian Berber populations. - PubMed - NCBI

    So all and all Berbers today are a mixed up group(although overall significantly African), however Berbers during classical and medieval times were most similar to the original Berbers with close affinities to Northeast African like people.

    And lastly, anyone who tries to claim that those early Northwest Africans in the Maghreb were similar the modern inhabitants and I mean these guys.
    [​IMG]

    Well... I have some BAD NEWS for you.

    The history of the North African mitochondrial DNA haplogroup U6 gene flow into the African, Eurasian and American continents


    Note, that the Maghreb is LAST. Compared to Europe and the Middle East when it comes to diversity of Maghrebi lineages such as U6! , Europe has more diversity for key Maghrebi lineages (e,g,, U6 and E-M81) than North Africa and that's saying something A LOT. What this tells us is that the modern population of Northwest Africa does not carry the diversity that the earlier populations once carried! It was probably lost during the medieval imo. But what this also means is that we can NOT repeat NOT use modern Magrebi populations to represent the early ancient population. A big sniper headshot to those who try to Eurasionize Northwest Africa.

    To be continued in next post
     
    MyopicEagle, tuckdog, SonnyEMC and 4 others dapped this.
  7. The Odum of Ala Igbo

    The Odum of Ala Igbo Hail Biafra!

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2014
    Messages:
    15,230
    Daps Received:
    44,712
    Reppin:
    Ontarioooooo
    Reputation:
    2,880
    Coli Cash:
    $300500.00

    Can you post pictures of people from those Berber tribes? I couldn't find any phenotypic evidence in my Peopling of Africa thread.
     
    satam55 dapped this.
  8. The Odum of Ala Igbo

    The Odum of Ala Igbo Hail Biafra!

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2014
    Messages:
    15,230
    Daps Received:
    44,712
    Reppin:
    Ontarioooooo
    Reputation:
    2,880
    Coli Cash:
    $300500.00

    My gut tells me E-M35 is a key Afro-Asiatic marker
     
  9. Free White & 21

    Free White & 21 AAGang

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,394
    Daps Received:
    14,807
    Reppin:
    Oakland
    Reputation:
    1,900
    Coli Cash:
    $345000.00

    Haven't read yet, but thank you in advance :myman:
     
    satam55 and KidStranglehold dapped this.
  10. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Part Three: Medieval descriptions/Demographic change

    Now that we already touched base on the long and tiresome bio-anthropological part:why: lets finally address the "race" of the Moors/Berbers and how they were described by medieval sources and also how the demographic in Northwest Africa changed.

    Since a lot of people believe that there was no demographic change, I want to address that first. It seems when it comes to Northwest African history everyone especially Eurocentrics and Northwest Africans themselves seem to be in big denial of the European slave trade and the European expelled Muslim population from Iberia.

    When it comes to mixing the irony is that there really wasn't mixing; or its just that people put too much emphasize's on it in discussion like this. What most people do not know is that the area of Northwest Africa(Morocco/Algeria) was sparsely populated during the early period of the Moors. People also forget that converted European Muslims from Europe were expelled and flooded the coastal part of Northern Africa. Remember the term Moor soon meant all Muslim's in general. Non black Moors soon outnumbered the original black Moors.

    To give you an example Christian renegades (Spanish, Italian, French, Albanian, etc. who would eventually convert to Islam) and the medieval slave trade had a major impact on places like Tlemcen, Oran, Bejaia (Bougie - Kabyle central) and especially Alger. Jacques Heers argues in "Les barbaresques" (2001, pg 227) at the time of Turkish rule in Algeria, something like 50% of the population in the capital was composed of European-Christian slaves (even Italian slaves by the seventeenth century). Saqalibas from the Balkans were also well represented. Besides, Arab excursions displaced many of the ancestral populations of the Maghreb between the 12th-15th centuries.

    So again it really wasn't mixing but a large population from Europe displacing an already smaller population in an already sparsely populated area. The Berber's were also spread out. Which is also why they were displaced. You have to understand that the original Berbers did not really live on the coastal part of North Africa but in the Sahara and near the Senegal river. They were nomadic people for the most part. The origins of modern day lighter skinned North Africans is not all due to mixing but also European migrates after post-Moorish Iberia who easily displaced a population. Much similar to how Bantu migrates displaced the very small Khoisan population of South Africa.

    Its a huge Eurocentric myth that Africans/blacks were the largest amount of slaves during that period when sources like this state, "Except for the Zandj (black slaves) from lower Iraq, no large body of blacks historically linked to the trans-Saharan slave trade existed anywhere in the Arab world ...The high costs of slaves, because of the risks inherent in the desert crossing, which would have not permitted such a massive exodus ... In this connection, it is significant that in the Arabic iconography of the period, the slave merchant was often depicted as a man with a hole in his purse. Until the Crusades the Muslim world drew its slaves from two main sources: Eastern and Central Europe (Slavs) and Turkestan. The Sudan only came third. " - Africa from the Seventh to Eleventh Century, UNESCO, 1988

    So there you have it, blacks during the period of the Moors(Crusades) were a minority when it came to the slave trade. However, when it came to White/Europeans, they were literally EVERYWHERE in the Muslim world as slaves to a point where Slav people from Eastern European were associated with slaves. Thus the word slave came from Slav which we all know.

    But more importantly, according to this article MILLIONS of white Christian Europeans were enslaved and flooded Northern Africa.

    A million Europeans enslaved
    An American historian says that more than a million Europeans were enslaved by North African slave traders between 1530 and 1780, a time of vigorous Mediterranean and Atlantic coastal piracy.


    The number of white European slaves is only a fraction of the trade that brought 10 million to 12 million black African slaves to the Americas over a 400-year period, historian Robert Davis says, but his research shows the slave trade was more widespread than commonly assumed. The impact on Europe’s white population was significant.

    “One of the things that both the public and many scholars have tended to take as given is that slavery was always racial in nature — that only blacks have been slaves. But that is not true,” said Mr. Davis, an Ohio State University professor.

    “Enslavement was a very real possibility for anyone who traveled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland.”

    In a new book, “Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800,” Mr. Davis calculates that between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates called “corsairs” and forced to work in North Africa during that period.

    The raids were so aggressive that entire Mediterranean seaside towns were abandoned by frightened residents. “Much of what has been written gives the impression that there were not many slaves and minimizes the impact that slavery had on Europe.

    “Most accounts only look at slavery in one place, or only for a short period of time. But when you take a broader, longer view, the massive scope of this slavery and its powerful impact become clear.”

    The pirates, sailing from such cities as Tunis and Algiers, raided ships in the Mediterranean and Atlantic as well as seaside villages to capture men, women and children, he says. They were put to work in quarries, in heavy construction and as oarsmen in the pirates’ galleys.

    Mr. Davis calculated his estimates using records that indicate how many slaves were at a particular location at a single time. He then estimated how many new slaves it would take to replace slaves as they died, escaped or were ransomed.

    “It is not the best way to make population estimates, but it is the only way with the limited records available.”
    A million Europeans enslaved

    The translator of Leo Africanus Robert Brown mentioned - "The many European races, including the Vandals under Genseric, and the endless European slaves who, turning renegade, became absorbed into the population must have left their mark over the all the Barbary states” (Brown, 1896, p. 203).

    According to Robert Davis Tripoli, was “occasionally reportedly crowded with large numbers of Greek slaves." (Davis, 2003, Christtian Slaves Muslim Masters, White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800.p. 112)

    And like I said they were literally every, going deep into the interior of North Africa according to this source, "Some masters put their white slaves to work on farms deep in the interior, where they faced yet another peril: capture and reenslavement by raiding Berbers. These unfortunates would probably never see another European for the rest of their short lives.
    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Oth...al-WhiteSlavery/UntoldStoryOfWhiteSlavery.htm

    These were the slavers btw. This here is an article about said slavers.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So there you have it. European slaves played a big role in the demographic shift in an already sparsely populated region of the world. Anyone, denying the impact of the European slave trade on Northwest Africa is only being in denial. Not only that you also have the fact that a large amount of Muslim converts in Iberia were expelled to North Africa.


    SPAIN’S FORGOTTEN MUSLIMS – THE EXPULSION OF THE MORISCOS
    http://lostislamichistory.com/spains-forgotten-muslims-the-expulsion-of-the-moriscos/

    The expulsion of Muslims from Spain was so bad that some considered it genocide and it is still felt today. But hey... Let the Eurocentrics tell it and the Northwest African population always looked the way they did. This is why we start seeing pale skinned Berbers in large frequencies around the 15th and 16th century. This is where we see the bulk of the Eurasian admixture in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
  11. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Continuation of part three:
    Anyways, now that we finally addressed the demographic change, lets address the juicy part that you all been waiting for and that is the description of the Moors. One problem that I have with some people is that they differentiate "black" and "Berber" when the two are not mutually exclusive. Like I said the major Berbers who were termed the "Moors" were the Sanhaja, Zenata, Lamtuna, Massufa, Gazula, Masmuda, Tuaregs and Katuma Berbers who were all described as apologetically black. The two biggest being the Masmuda and Sanhaja.

    The Moors/Berbers were grouped in with other blacks especially when Al-Jahiz (776-869) wrote that: "among the Blacks are counted the Sudanese, the Ethiopians, the Fezzan, the Berbers, the Copts, the Nubians, the Zaghawa, the Moors."

    Going a bit back even the Libyans/Berbers west of Egypt were described as black, "The Egyptians called the population of the neighboring Libya `Tehenu.' They were pictured with dark complexion and curly hair" - Immanuel Velikovsky, Ages in Chaos, Vol. 5, (1952)



    Some scholars even hinted that Berbers came from East Africa when, Appian figured these Moors or Ethiopians had extended "from eastern Ethiopia westward to the Mauritanian Mount Atlas." (Perseus Under Philologic: App. Num. 5)

    Anthropologicist S.O.Y. Keita states this...
    (S.O.Y Keita, "Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa," American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 83:35-48 (1990)

    Berbers were even noted to be under Ham's curse because they were black...

    “Ham, having become black because of a curse pronounced against him by his father, fled to the Maghrib to hide in shame.... Berber, son of Kesloudjim [Casluhim], one of his descendants, left numerous posterity in the Maghrib." - Ibn Khaldun, Histoire I, 177–178

    "Now the real fact, the fact which dispenses with all hypothesis, is this: the Berbers are the children of Canaan, the son of Ham, son of Noah." Down this line came Berr who had two sons, Baranis and Madghis al-Abtar. All Berber tribes descended from one or the other of these brothers and were classified as either Baranes or Botr." - Histoire I, 173–185

    But going back to the medieval Berbers. I want to first address my favorites, the Masmudas. Who were the largest at the time and the largest infantry for the Caliphates. They were basically the Moors or synonymous with term.



    See UNESCO's Africa from the Seventh to the Eleventh Century, Ivan Hrbek et al., 1992, p. 164.

    (from International Journal of Middle East Studies, 19(3), 337-365).

    13th c. A.D.--Abu Shama refers to the Masmuda as "blacks" in his Kitab al-Ravdatayn (B. Lewis, Islam: Religion and Society, 2; 1974, p. 21

    Like I said the made up the majority of the Fatimids troops.

    Fatimid infantry included "sudani or 'black' African and even Masmuda Berbers from the western Sahara."
    - See David Nicholle's Richard the Lionheart, Saladin and the Struggle for Jeruselam- David Nicolle

    Fatimid infantry consisted of "20,000 Moroccans (Masmudi Berbers), 30,000 Sudanese, 10,000 'easterners..."- Terrence Wise, The Wars of the Crusades, 1096-1291, 1974, pp 52

    - Yaacov Lev, "State and Society in Fatimid Egypt", 1987, pp 94

    Like I said these guys were the big players. Masmuda Berbers:
    [​IMG]


    Anyways, lets look at more descriptions of the Moors.

    When the Vikings raided the coastal part of the Maghreb they noted that they took away "Blue men."
    - Cambridge Medieval History

    While others state that their skin was as dark as night.
    "The Moors have bodies black as night, while the skin of the Gauls is white..." written by Isidore of Seville in The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, translation by Steven A. Barney, published 2007. p. 386.

    Saying that the Moor's bodies were black as night while the Gauls(French) were white clearly shows that medieval writers KNEW what they were talking about and were not "naive" as Eurocentrics try to make them out to be.

    Others, “underlines the fact that Moors are so named because they are black, and their blackness comes from the heat of the sun (9.2.121-23)” (Ramey, L., 2008)


    6th c. A.D. - Procopius, a Byzantine in his History of the Wars book IV contrasting a white peoples who had settled in North Africa claimed they were not “black skinned like the Mauri...”

    Then we have others saying that they were as black as a cooking pan.
    "All the Moorish soldiers were dressed with silk and black wool that had been forcibly acquired… their black faces were like pitch and the most handsome of them was like (as black as) a cooking pan."
    Forgeries of Memory and Meaning: Blacks and the Regimes of Race in American

    One Shakespearean scholar states this:
    - Elmer E. Stoll, Shakespearean scholar

    1st c. A.D.– Marcus Valerian Martial was one of the earliest Europeans to use the phrase “woolly hair like a Moor” also translated "a Moor with his crisp hair" in Book 6 of "The Epigrams",

    4th c. A.D.--the document Expositio Totius Mundi says a barbarous population lived in the desert south of Tripoli known both as “Mazices and Ethiopians”(Carocopino, 1940, p. 391-393; Gsell, 1927, p. 2).The Mazikes or Mazikha were a people extending from North Africa into the eastern Desert and across the Red Sea into the Yemen, it is originally the name of the Tuareg peoples. Today the name "Amazigh" is a generic and nationalist name for people who speak Berber, but was originally exclusively used by Shluh and Tuareg "the veiled men of Sahara". Herbert Wendt asserts that, in Rome “every other slave was called Amasix, Maxyx, Maxitanus or simply Max” and that "the negroes" luxury slaves on Greek or Hellenic vases were named Amaseos or "folk of Amasis", an ancient ruler of Libyan ethnicity in Egypt whom he refers to as a Berber king. Herodotus refers to these "Libyans" as the "Maxyes". (Wendt, 1962, p. 66).

    If the Moors were not black then why did some scholars write of their "horrible black faces" and their skin as black as crows?:heh:

    6th c. A.D.--Corippus, a Byzantine in Book I, 245 of Johannidus, Book 1, 245, speaking of Moors in the area of North Africa who he felt had "faces of a horrible black color" stated, “Maura videbatur facies, nigro colore horrida” (Michell, G.B. (1903, Jan.). The Berbers. Journal of the Royal African Society, 2(6), (pp. 161-194). He also refers to some Moorish captives as "black as crows."

    Describing the population of Mauritania(Morocco):

    Howorth, H.H. (1884). Early Intercourse Between the Franks and Danes, Transactions of the Royal Historical Society 1, pp. 18-61

    Again the refer to the "horrible black faces" this time in Southern Italy:
    9th c. A.D. - Saedulius Scotus, a Celtic monk in a letter to an Italian ruler refers to the horrible "black faces" of "the Saracen" invaders of southern Italy.





    Gender and Sexuality in the Middle Ages by Martha A. Brozyna, 2005 p. 303.

    Speaking of the Sanhaja. They were not only the founders of the Almoravid dynasty but also founded the Morocco city of Marrakesh!
    Western Sahara - History


    But whats interesting is that one of the Almoravid leaders was described like this!

    In Abd Allah's Roudh el-Kartas, he describes Yusuf ibn Tashfin, the founder of Marrakesh/Morocco, as "Brown color, middle height, thin, little beard, soft voice, black eyes, straight nose, lock of Muhammad falling on the top of his ear, eyebrow joined, wooly hair."

    One of the generals of the Almoravids.
    [​IMG]
    ^^Note how he is darker than Mansa Musa.

    Anyways, I'm VERY tired and that concludes it for now. :smile:
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
  12. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

  13. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Will try. Its hardy images of them because they were Muslim and its against to have images of yourself or something like that. But I'll try.
    I don't think. I think more so E-M78.
     
    CrownHeights and MansaMusa dapped this.
  14. Diasporan Royalty

    Diasporan Royalty Wholesome Negro Staff Member Poster of the Year

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    41,553
    Daps Received:
    118,093
    Reppin:
    NC + NY
    Reputation:
    13,610
    Coli Cash:
    $298500.00

    Anyways, I'm featuring this thread so all can see.
     
  15. Poitier

    Poitier My Words Law Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    69,987
    Daps Received:
    242,826
    Reputation:
    15,400
    Coli Cash:
    $1276932.00

    sub
     
    KidStranglehold dapped this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice