Living wage advocates, how are restaruant owners supposed to deal with being squeezed like this?

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

O and by the way.

Yes, You Can Buy a Home on a Minimum Wage Salary, Maybe | The Truth About Mortgage.com

So no, it's not easy, but it's definitely possible and a lot of people are actually home owners making minimum wage in real life.

 

[Insensitive]

@ The discourse in this thread.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Obviously our country is top heavy, but to pretend like the only stakeholders in corporations are evil billionaires is dishonest.

To pretend like an increase in minimum wage would somehow topple or destroy the country is equally as dishonest.

Profits in this country have been over inflated and done so on the backs of the workers, there really is no denying this. Profits to both shareholders, owners and management. An increase in minimum wage seeks to remedy this wrong doing...admittedly there's a very likely possibility that those who have been benefiting THE MOST from this wrong will buck the most as they have the most to lose. This matter is at the core of the wealth gap debate is it is the easiest way for the 1% to actually trickle that money down to the workers.

 

[Broke Wave]

You keep projecting convenient arguments onto me because you can't counter what I'm actually saying.

Show me where I said the govt can only do one thing at a time (when I had a whole laundry list of things I wanted the govt to do). Show me where I said poor people are "poor money managers" or "lazy and immoral". Are you talking to me or some idea of what you think everyone who doesn't agree with you is?

How will raising MW get poor people out of easily automatable/outsourceable dead end jobs? How will raising MW make housing, job training, higher education or healthcare more affordable, when the people making the wages you want to raise it to can't afford those things? Can you point to what MW would actually fix without hiding behind emotional canards? Why do we have to address MW first when there are so many other bigger problems poor people face, that raising MW won't fix?

No, you are not a free marketeer. Labor is a market. The very presence of a price floor (MW) != free market. Note, I am not even against MW, nor am I even a free marketeer myself (I can't be if I am for MW and having the govt address all the problems with higher education, housing, etc). I agree that business has too much power at the moment, and I also agree that the govt should intervene in favor of workers. You on the other hand are trying to masquerade as a free marketeer to lend yourself an air of credibility and objectivity while you try and shove old school left wing redistributionism down everyone's throats. You can @ me and use all the smilies, shame tactics and logical fallacies you want... I'm not going for it. My questions are pretty simple, can you answer them?

For the hundredth time... Raising the minimum wage is not about "old school leftist redistributionism". Its about creating a free market where corporations with thin profit margins who crowd out other businesses Ie Walmart do not have their cost of labour subsidised. When walmart employees have to get foodstamps, wic, housing assistance, and the list goes on, who picks up the bill? Who is really paying for Walmarts actual labour cost? 15 an hr minimum wage for example would reduce that burden on the tax payer.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

For the hundredth time... Raising the minimum wage is not about "old school leftist redistributionism". Its about creating a free market where corporations with thin profit margins who crowd out other businesses Ie Walmart do not have their cost of labour subsidised. When walmart employees have to get foodstamps, wic, housing assistance, and the list goes on, who picks up the bill? Who is really paying for Walmarts actual labour cost? 15 an hr minimum wage for example would reduce that burden on the tax payer.

OK. If the goal is a free labor market, and impediment to that are labor subsidies, why not just remove the subsidies? How is a labor market shaped by a wage floor and still existent labor subsidies a free market?

 

[Broke Wave]

OK. If the goal is a free labor market, and impediment to that are labor subsidies, why not just remove the subsidies? How is a labor market shaped by a wage floor and still existent labor subsidies a free market?

If we remove the subsidies, which are in this case foodstamps, housing assistance and WIC, there will be a lot more hungry people, homeless people, and people will be unable to adequetely heat their homes.

so yes, If we as a society think that not providing those things is a desirable outcome, then we cut it. But theres no such thing as a truly free market, hence taxation. There would be insufficient stability to run the business without police, so therefore they pay taxes for that. There would be grave repercussions if we cut foodstamps and wic, so we pay for that. We have accepted that in our society at a bare minimum you should be fed and clothed. A free market is subjective. i believe in the freest possible market. I dont believe in it for some ideological social engineering purposes, I believe in utilitarianism.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

To pretend like an increase in minimum wage would somehow topple or destroy the country is equally as dishonest.

Profits in this country have been over inflated and done so on the backs of the workers, there really is no denying this. Profits to both shareholders, owners and management. An increase in minimum wage seeks to remedy this wrong doing...admittedly there's a very likely possibility that those who have been benefiting THE MOST from this wrong will buck the most as they have the most to lose. This matter is at the core of the wealth gap debate is it is the easiest way for the 1% to actually trickle that money down to the workers.

That problem goes way beyond minimum wage. Raising minimum wage won't stop the Fed from doing the quantitative easing that creates those equity inflating asset bubbles, nor will it do a damn thing about the cancer of "corporate personhood", SuperPACs and other egreious corporate lobbying, nor will it provide a stronger basis for employees to leverage negotiations with employers. Similarly we have already established the true cost of labor is much higher than minimum wage. If all raising minimum wage does is replace those subsidies, MW earners will be no closer to accumulating wealth. So no, as far as the problems MW earners are facing in the form of wealth, raising MW in the ways people here are suggesting won't do much of anything.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

If we remove the subsidies, which are in this case foodstamps, housing assistance and WIC, there will be a lot more hungry people, homeless people, and people will be unable to adequetely heat their homes.

so yes, If we as a society think that providing those things is a desirable o

OK, well ensuring that everyone has food, shelter and heat (which I am 110% OK with) is far from "free market". So stop calling yourself a free market advocate, you are clearly not about that life.

I think it's silly for a country as rich and resourceful for the US to have anyone homeless or starving. I also think it's silly for our labor force to be so underutilized that about a quarter of the working population is either at or very close to earning MW. Raising MW doesn't solve either of those issues.

 

[Broke Wave]

OK, well ensuring that everyone has food, shelter and heat (which I am 110% OK with) is far from "free market". So stop calling yourself a free market advocate, you are clearly not about that life.

I think it's silly for a country as rich and resourceful for the US to have anyone homeless or starving. I also think it's silly for our labor force to be so underutilized that about a quarter of the working population is either at or very close to earning MW. Raising MW doesn't solve either of those issues.

No once again you didnt even read my post. A free market doesnt mean stripping away government. Within in the current structure of America there are already things instituted by the government that benefit business IE roads police fire education. If you think its okay for the gov to provide food and shelter, why should the EMPLOYED go to work, expend their time and energy and yet still have to be subsidized by the taxpayer? That is called picking winners and losers as the larger corporations are able to hire more of this cheap labour and expand.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

No once again you didnt even read my post. A free market doesnt mean stripping away government. Within in the current structure of America there are already things instituted by the government that benefit business IE roads police fire education. If you think its okay for the gov to provide food and shelter, why should the EMPLOYED go to work, expend their time and energy and yet still have to be subsidized by the taxpayer? That is called picking winners and losers as the larger corporations are able to hire more of this cheap labour and expand.

Again you are trying to have it both ways, and not really making much sense. "Winners and losers"? All minimum wage workers are subsidized the same, whether it's a big or small company. So in that regard all companies are winners.... only losers are tax payers; but even then I'm not really sure how mass unemployment and full subsidies of these folks is better. And yea, I am OK with working taxpayers having access to roads, police, fire, education.... along with welfare services like SNAP, Section 8, SSI and disability if they qualify. They are working so why shouldn't they have access to the benefits they are paying taxes for?

I'm not really sure what your point here is... do you? You are pro "free market" but are OK with the govt basically having a hand in or outright controlling everything Living on 7.25 and subsidies to ensure folks have housing and food is cruel and inhumane, but a minimum wage raise just high enough to eliminate those subsidies will solve every economic problem and not be cruel and inhumane

Your stance seems very emotional and reactionary.... can you explain exactly what problems a MW raise that's just high enough to cover subsidies will solve anything? They will have the same net income, and by extension the same wealth (none) and all the same problems as before. So what exactly will your solution solve?

 

[tmonster]

Bad credit, bad debts, no savings, RE being too expensive locally

so $7.25/hr ought to fix that?

 

[tmonster]

A free market doesnt mean stripping away government.

as a matter of fact you can't have a free market without serious government involvement of the non-corrupt type.

 

[ill]

so $7.25/hr ought to fix that?

Yeah cuz people who have serious debt, bad credit, and no savings are suddenly going to turn their lives around for $10/hr.

People not willing to sacrifice in their lives to get ahead aren't going to get ahead with your plans.

 

[ill]

Still no solution for the middle class in here.

 

[tmonster]

Yeah cuz people who have serious debt, bad credit, and no savings are suddenly going to turn their lives around for $10/hr.

People not willing to sacrifice in their lives to get ahead aren't going to get ahead with your plans.

so we can just forget about that generation then?
they can be relegated to their drudgery?