Living wage advocates, how are restaruant owners supposed to deal with being squeezed like this?

[88m3]

Yeah cuz people who have serious debt, bad credit, and no savings are suddenly going to turn their lives around for $10/hr.

People not willing to sacrifice in their lives to get ahead aren't going to get ahead with your plans.

Sounds like a good argument to lower wages when you put it that way!

 

[ill]

so we can just forget about that generation then?
they can be relegated to their drudgery?

Blindly giving people more money is not a recipe for success. Until you address the underlying causes a pay bump does nothing like dude said.

Remember that stimulus package a few years back. That was supposed to get some people out of the basement. How'd that work out? Most people spent that windfall before they even got the check. But apparently a pay bump will change their mindsets and make them financially literate and responsible. Okk.

 

[tmonster]

Blindly giving people more money is not a recipe for success. Until you address the underlying causes a pay bump does nothing like dude said.

you have avoided answering my question because the answer is axiomatic based on your claims

Remember that stimulus package a few years back. That was supposed to get some people out of the basement. How'd that work out? Most people spent that windfall before they even got the check. But apparently a pay bump will change their mindsets and make them financially literate and responsible. Okk.

well gosh isn't this fukking adorable? when did the people receive their stimulus checks?

 

[tmonster]

Still no solution for the middle class in here.

we been told you the solution
you just keep trying to make it into the problem

Sounds like a good argument to lower wages when you put it that way!

I mean basically yeah, it almost sounds like a final solution for those "citizens"

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

so $7.25/hr ought to fix that?

Nope, never said it was. A pay raise won't fix credit, there are plenty of rich people with awful credit. Bad debts go hand in hand with bad credit... if you have bad credit and have to get a loan you are going to pay out the nose no matter how much money you make. A raise won't make places like NYC or SF affordable (i.e. cheap enough for someone on minimum wage to afford without subsidies). U cant pop fly when u are on the losing side of a debate.

 

[88m3]

Nope, never said it was. A pay raise won't fix credit, there are plenty of rich people with awful credit. Bad debts go hand in hand with bad credit... if you have bad credit and have to get a loan you are going to pay out the nose no matter how much money you make. A raise won't make places like NYC or SF affordable (i.e. cheap enough for someone on minimum wage to afford without subsidies). U cant pop fly when u are on the losing side of a debate.

A pay raise wont fix bad credit but it will give you the means to pay down debt and access an auto loan or student loan which will lead to good credit or wait for it a better job!

 

[tmonster]

Nope, never said it was.

so what is the fix for those people?

 

[tmonster]

A pay raise wont fix bad credit but it will give you the means to pay down debt and access an auto loan or student loan which will lead to good credit or wait for it a better job!

I did not even want to get into his red herring that it is material to this conversation that some rich people may or may not have bad credit
or his straw-man that I want a raise in income so poor people can fix their credit

 

[tmonster]

U cant pop fly when u are on the losing side of a debate.

I have no idea what this means

 

[Brown_Pride]

That problem goes way beyond minimum wage. Raising minimum wage won't stop the Fed from doing the quantitative easing that creates those equity inflating asset bubbles, nor will it do a damn thing about the cancer of "corporate personhood", SuperPACs and other egreious corporate lobbying, nor will it provide a stronger basis for employees to leverage negotiations with employers. Similarly we have already established the true cost of labor is much higher than minimum wage. If all raising minimum wage does is replace those subsidies, MW earners will be no closer to accumulating wealth. So no, as far as the problems MW earners are facing in the form of wealth, raising MW in the ways people here are suggesting won't do much of anything.

those are all valid points, and no MW increase wont fix it. No one measure will, less it be extremely broad in it's scope, but a MW increase is a step in the right direction. The change that needs to take place will not happen all at once. More people with more money = more political speech = change.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

A pay raise wont fix bad credit but it will give you the means to pay down debt and access an auto loan or student loan which will lead to good credit or wait for it a better job!

Having money doesn't mean you will use it to pay down debts. Especially without financial literacy. If fixing people's credit is the goal why don't we just pay off people's debts? Seems like a more direct way to solve THAT problem.

I did not even want to get into his red herring that it is material to this conversation that some rich people may or may not have bad credit
or his straw-man that I want a raise in income so poor people can fix their credit

You asked if a raise in MW would fix bad credit, bad debts, and low/no savings. I said no and explained why. Where is the red herring? If anyone threw out a "more pay fixes credit" red herring it was @88m3, who you just cosigned

 

[tmonster]

Having money doesn't mean you will use it to pay down debts. Especially without financial literacy. If fixing people's credit is the goal why don't we just pay off people's debts? Seems like a more direct way to solve THAT problem.


You asked if a raise in MW would fix bad credit, bad debts, and low/no savings. I said no and explained why. Where is the red herring? If anyone threw out a "more pay fixes credit" red herring it was @88m3, who you just cosigned

who do you think has more bad credit poor or rich people? why do you think that is?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

those are all valid points, and no MW increase wont fix it. No one measure will, less it be extremely broad in it's scope, but a MW increase is a step in the right direction. The change that needs to take place will not happen all at once. More people with more money = more political speech = change.

I think the biggest challenge the working poor face is corporate lobbying. We can talk till we are blue in the face about what needs to be done, but as long as politicians are in these corporations' pockets it's all meaningless. Second thing is all the growing expenses the working poor have. Everyone keeps talking about how costs are skyrocketing while pay stays flat. Nobody seems to be asking why costs are skyrocketing... they just want to hand whoever we are paying blank checks to enable further price gouging. I think we have to examine that. I think there are a lot of basic things everyone needs. Public healthcare. I think we need public colleges in the same vein as high schools, paid for the same way K-12 schools are (since it's proven that college loans are a drag on the economy which is worse than a tax). I think accepting that more and more Americans will be reliant on dead end minimum wage jobs and protectionist measures to artificially boost wages for them is a mistake. People need better jobs and the means to get them. And there are better jobs out there, and even more will come as the economy grows. Etc.

I don't understand why people are attacking me. I legit do want what I think is best for everybody. Better paying, more secure, more fulfilling careers and a smarter, bigger social safety net. More power for workers and the end of corporatism. My ideas throughout this thread have been dead consistent. The shame campaign to not go with the redistributionist HL groupthink is confusing. I think raising MW is a legit issue to be examined but it doesn't solve any of the problems I listed directly.... and like arbitrary aimless tax hikes on "the rich" it won't fix anything. It's shameful how people use the plight of the poor to push their own agendas, often at the poor's expense, or at the minimum to beneficial way they can explain.

 

[Broke Wave]

I think the biggest challenge the working poor face is corporate lobbying. We can talk till we are blue in the face about what needs to be done, but as long as politicians are in these corporations' pockets it's all meaningless. Second thing is all the growing expenses the working poor have. Everyone keeps talking about how costs are skyrocketing while pay stays flat. Nobody seems to be asking why costs are skyrocketing... they just want to hand whoever we are paying blank checks to enable further price gouging. I think we have to examine that. I think there are a lot of basic things everyone needs. Public healthcare. I think we need public colleges in the same vein as high schools, paid for the same way K-12 schools are (since it's proven that college loans are a drag on the economy which is worse than a tax). I think accepting that more and more Americans will be reliant on dead end minimum wage jobs and protectionist measures to artificially boost wages for them is a mistake. People need better jobs and the means to get them. And there are better jobs out there, and even more will come as the economy grows. Etc.

I don't understand why people are attacking me. I legit do want what I think is best for everybody. Better paying, more secure, more fulfilling careers and a smarter, bigger social safety net. More power for workers and the end of corporatism. My ideas throughout this thread have been dead consistent. The shame campaign to not go with the redistributionist HL groupthink is confusing. I think raising MW is a legit issue to be examined but it doesn't solve any of the problems I listed directly.... and like arbitrary aimless tax hikes on "the rich" it won't fix anything. It's shameful how people use the plight of the poor to push their own agendas, often at the poor's expense, or at the minimum to beneficial way they can explain.

Tax hikes on the rich are aimless and arbitrary.

If we raise the minimum wage, more americans will be reliant on dead end minimum wage jobs... Because we made the minimum wage more attractive? (Social engineering)

The problem is prices skyrocketing and not wages remaining flat. Wages however should still remain flat at the minimum level.

Raising the minimum wage is actually going to hurt the poor in unspecified ways.

Is this an accurate assssment of your posts?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Tax hikes on the rich are aimless and arbitrary.

If we raise the minimum wage, more americans will be reliant on dead end minimum wage jobs... Because we made the minimum wage more attractive? (Social engineering)

The problem is prices skyrocketing and not wages remaining flat. Wages however should still remain flat at the minimum level.

Raising the minimum wage is actually going to hurt the poor in unspecified ways.

Is this an accurate assssment of your posts?

The tax hikes proposed here, yes. No, raising the minimum wage won't necessarily make Americans more or less reliant on dead end jobs, but raising minimum wage won't do shyt to help Americans in dead end jobs get ahead in their careers. Yes, the problem is prices skyrocketing and wages remaining flat. NO, NEVER SAID WAGES SHOULD REMAIN AT THE MINIMUM LEVEL. Raising the minimum wage can hurt the poor by incentivizing automation and other avenues to get rid of labor at that price level, for example. Also flies in the face of "free markets", which I'm not sure you know the meaning of.

Now can you explain what specific problems MW will address, again without hiding behind vague terms like fairness, dignity, humanity, etc.?