Rocket Scientist
Superstar
Can someone post the ESPN Insider for the 2008 Draft re-do. Skooby?Appreciate it.
NFL ESPN Insider
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Why do we give it six seasons to re-examine a draft class? Well, although it might seem vaguely scientific, allowing players enough time to establish themselves and outlast a rookie contract to reach free agency, it actually started a few years ago when we were discussing how the 2005 draft would have looked if we held it again. That was an all-time"What if?" draft, notably based on the idea that Aaron Rodgers just might go ahead of Alex Smith this time. So the next year we did 2006, and then 2007, and … well, here we are.
In the 2008 draft, some teams drafted well at the top, really. The top 10 does offer one pretty big bust (Vernon Gholston) and one pretty small one (Derrick Harvey). It was also a strange draft in that not one wideout was taken in Round 1, something that seems almost hard to imagine in this pass-happy NFL. Here are the guidelines I used:
The rules
1. The order is based mainly on what players have accomplished but also considers what else they have left. Health matters.
2. The need of the team at the time is not considered. This is now purely "best player available."
3. Positional value matters -- so a good tackle could edge a star guard, for instance.
The order below follows the actual 2008 draft order. And remember: New England didn't have a second pick in the first round because of the Spygate incident, so there are only 31 picks.
1. Miami Dolphins: Matt Ryan, QB
2008 pick: Jake Long
He's coming off a disappointing season, but Ryan has 4,515 passing yards and 26 touchdown passes, and he carries a 60-34 record as a starting quarterback. There is certainly a question of whether he's at the elite level people so often discuss but never really define, but Ryan is unquestionably one of the top 10 franchise quarterbacks in the NFL and seems fully capable of winning a Super Bowl. Had Miami drafted him at No. 1, it would have shifted the direction of the franchise.
(Ryan's previous slot: No. 3 overall)
2. St. Louis Rams: Joe Flacco, QB
2008 pick: Chris Long
Before you scream that Flacco isn't as decorated as a few players lower on this list, consider: (A) While the idea of "QB wins" has big holes, we can't call it a fluke that Flacco is 62-34 as a starter and has a Super Bowl ring to show for a stretch of exceptional play in the playoffs. (B) The occasional roller-coaster aspect to his play doesn't extend to his health, where he's started 96 of a possible 96 games. (C) If he's just a "pretty good" QB in today's game, those guys are worth a ton of money. Ask Jay Cutler. Flacco gets his criticism, but the body of work at the position he plays, and his future, put him here.
(Flacco's previous slot: No. 18 overall)
3. Atlanta Falcons: Ryan Clady, OT
2008 pick: Matt Ryan
Although Clady got hurt this year, he's been one of the best NFL left tackles since he was drafted, going to three Pro Bowls and having been named to the All-Pro team twice. Health wasn't an issue previously, either. Before he got hurt, Clady had started in the first 78 games of his NFL career. He'll still be really good going forward. But we sure can't say the Falcons got it wrong.
(Clady's previous slot: No. 12 overall)
4. Oakland Raiders: Ray Rice, RB
2008 pick: Darren McFadden
If this were based on his rushing totals alone, Rice wouldn't be in this position. After all, he's only third among 2008 draftees in rushing yards. However, consider that Rice also leads the 2008 draft class in receptions, and you get a better sense of his total value. The question going forward is health, but I kept Rice high because he doesn't even turn 27 until Jan. 22, so there's some value to be found.
(Rice's previous slot: No. 55 overall)
5. Kansas City Chiefs: Jake Long, OT
2008 pick: Glenn Dorsey
The injury bug has hit Long over the past couple of years, and he's currently in recovery mode, but it shouldn't diminish his accomplishments so far. He has started 89 of a possible 96 games, has been to the Pro Bowl four times, has been an All-Pro once and should still be a useful left tackle going forward if he can stay healthy.
(Long's previous slot: No. 1 overall)
6. New York Jets: Jerod Mayo, LB
2008 pick: Vernon Gholston
One of the biggest busts in the draft gets replaced by one of the best picks. Until this season, Mayo had escaped serious injury and had become the leader of Bill Belichick's defense as a versatile player who doesn't need to come off the field. He's second in his draft class in total tackles. Gholston, meanwhile, washed out of the league without picking up an NFL sack.
(Mayo's previous slot: No. 10 overall)
7. New Orleans Saints: Chris Johnson, RB
2008 pick: Sedrick Ellis
Before you scoff at Johnson's selection this high given what some might call his recent struggles, consider that he has nearly 1,300 more rushing yards than anyone else in the draft class with 7,965. That's a very good NFL career for a running back. What Johnson did in 2009 was have one of the greatest rushing seasons of all time (2,006 yards), and it set the bar so high that he's faced criticism since. But he's never had fewer than 1,000 rushing yards in a season, and he has 272 career catches. He doesn't get enough credit and would have been fun for a Sean Payton-coached team.
(Johnson's previous slot: No. 10 overall)
In the 2008 draft, some teams drafted well at the top, really. The top 10 does offer one pretty big bust (Vernon Gholston) and one pretty small one (Derrick Harvey). It was also a strange draft in that not one wideout was taken in Round 1, something that seems almost hard to imagine in this pass-happy NFL. Here are the guidelines I used:
The rules
1. The order is based mainly on what players have accomplished but also considers what else they have left. Health matters.
2. The need of the team at the time is not considered. This is now purely "best player available."
3. Positional value matters -- so a good tackle could edge a star guard, for instance.
The order below follows the actual 2008 draft order. And remember: New England didn't have a second pick in the first round because of the Spygate incident, so there are only 31 picks.
1. Miami Dolphins: Matt Ryan, QB
2008 pick: Jake Long
He's coming off a disappointing season, but Ryan has 4,515 passing yards and 26 touchdown passes, and he carries a 60-34 record as a starting quarterback. There is certainly a question of whether he's at the elite level people so often discuss but never really define, but Ryan is unquestionably one of the top 10 franchise quarterbacks in the NFL and seems fully capable of winning a Super Bowl. Had Miami drafted him at No. 1, it would have shifted the direction of the franchise.
(Ryan's previous slot: No. 3 overall)
2. St. Louis Rams: Joe Flacco, QB
2008 pick: Chris Long
Before you scream that Flacco isn't as decorated as a few players lower on this list, consider: (A) While the idea of "QB wins" has big holes, we can't call it a fluke that Flacco is 62-34 as a starter and has a Super Bowl ring to show for a stretch of exceptional play in the playoffs. (B) The occasional roller-coaster aspect to his play doesn't extend to his health, where he's started 96 of a possible 96 games. (C) If he's just a "pretty good" QB in today's game, those guys are worth a ton of money. Ask Jay Cutler. Flacco gets his criticism, but the body of work at the position he plays, and his future, put him here.
(Flacco's previous slot: No. 18 overall)
3. Atlanta Falcons: Ryan Clady, OT
2008 pick: Matt Ryan
Although Clady got hurt this year, he's been one of the best NFL left tackles since he was drafted, going to three Pro Bowls and having been named to the All-Pro team twice. Health wasn't an issue previously, either. Before he got hurt, Clady had started in the first 78 games of his NFL career. He'll still be really good going forward. But we sure can't say the Falcons got it wrong.
(Clady's previous slot: No. 12 overall)
4. Oakland Raiders: Ray Rice, RB
2008 pick: Darren McFadden
If this were based on his rushing totals alone, Rice wouldn't be in this position. After all, he's only third among 2008 draftees in rushing yards. However, consider that Rice also leads the 2008 draft class in receptions, and you get a better sense of his total value. The question going forward is health, but I kept Rice high because he doesn't even turn 27 until Jan. 22, so there's some value to be found.
(Rice's previous slot: No. 55 overall)
5. Kansas City Chiefs: Jake Long, OT
2008 pick: Glenn Dorsey
The injury bug has hit Long over the past couple of years, and he's currently in recovery mode, but it shouldn't diminish his accomplishments so far. He has started 89 of a possible 96 games, has been to the Pro Bowl four times, has been an All-Pro once and should still be a useful left tackle going forward if he can stay healthy.
(Long's previous slot: No. 1 overall)
6. New York Jets: Jerod Mayo, LB
2008 pick: Vernon Gholston
One of the biggest busts in the draft gets replaced by one of the best picks. Until this season, Mayo had escaped serious injury and had become the leader of Bill Belichick's defense as a versatile player who doesn't need to come off the field. He's second in his draft class in total tackles. Gholston, meanwhile, washed out of the league without picking up an NFL sack.
(Mayo's previous slot: No. 10 overall)
7. New Orleans Saints: Chris Johnson, RB
2008 pick: Sedrick Ellis
Before you scoff at Johnson's selection this high given what some might call his recent struggles, consider that he has nearly 1,300 more rushing yards than anyone else in the draft class with 7,965. That's a very good NFL career for a running back. What Johnson did in 2009 was have one of the greatest rushing seasons of all time (2,006 yards), and it set the bar so high that he's faced criticism since. But he's never had fewer than 1,000 rushing yards in a season, and he has 272 career catches. He doesn't get enough credit and would have been fun for a Sean Payton-coached team.
(Johnson's previous slot: No. 10 overall)
8. Jacksonville Jaguars: DeSean Jackson, WR
2008 pick: Derrick Harvey
Not only does Jackson have more than 1,500 more receiving yards than the next closest pass-catcher in the class, he's also been underrated in his durability, having played in 87 of a possible 96 regular-season games. The Jags get a dynamic playmaker instead of one of the bigger busts in the draft -- not a bad exchange.
(Jackson's previous slot: No. 49 overall)
9. Cincinnati Bengals: Calais Campbell, DE
2008 pick: Keith Rivers
Campbell is one of the NFL's really good defensive linemen whom nobody seems to talk about. A giant of a human, the 6-foot-8, 280-plus-pound lineman creates values through his versatility and ability to rush the passer. He has 36.5 sacks (third in the class) but is also a good run-defender. Rivers has fought some major injuries that have diminished his career.
(Campbell's previous slot: No. 50 overall)
10. New England Patriots: Chris Long, DE
2008 pick: Jerod Mayo
Long might be considered a disappointment by some because of his lofty draft slot, but he's put together a solid career and continues to play a key role for one of the better defensive lines in the NFL in St. Louis. He has 50.5 sacks, more than anyone in his draft class, with no fewer than 8.5 in any of the past four seasons. Perhaps not a star, but a really good player. The Patriots did well the first time around, however.
(Long's previous slot: No. 2 overall)
11. Buffalo Bills: Matt Forte, RB
2008 pick: Leodis McKelvin
On a per-carry basis, I think most people would say that I should have Charles in this spot and Forte in the spot below him. But consider that Forte has 843 more rushing yards and 119 more catches, and he has been significantly more durable, with 91 games started to 49 for Charles (who split a lot of reps earlier in his career). Forte has even more rushing yards than Rice, in fact. He's one of the more underrated players in the game today.
(Forte's previous slot: No. 44 overall)
12. Denver Broncos: Jamaal Charles, RB
2008 pick: Ryan Clady
As explosive a runner as the league has seen since he arrived, and that includes Johnson and even Adrian Peterson, who was drafted the year before. Charles has a crazy-high 5.6 yards per carry for his career, including a remarkable 2010, when he averaged 6.4 yards per carry. Although durability concerns have cost him some carries (and an injury cost him a season), he's had a great career and was clearly a steal at No. 73.
(Charles' previous slot: No. 73 overall)
13. Carolina Panthers: Aqib Talib, CB
2008 pick: Jonathan Stewart
The way his time in Tampa ended probably takes away from the fact that Talib has been a very good player when he's on the field, and he's played in 76 of a possible 96 regular-season games. He leads all players from this draft class in interceptions with 23 and maintains a skill set that allows him to cover some of the league's best big targets.
(Talib's previous slot: No. 20 overall)
14. Chicago Bears: Jordy Nelson, WR
2008 pick: Chris Williams
The Bears aren't thin at wide receiver now, but until Brandon Marshall arrived, it was a problem area that a guy like Nelson would have helped. Nelson is more than some lucky recipient of Aaron Rodgers' passes -- he's a very good receiver at every level and is crafty in his ability to improvise when plays get extended, making him a valued player because he helps Rodgers maximize his mobility. Nelson is second only to DeSean Jackson in receiving yards for this class.
(Nelson's previous slot: No. 36 overall)
2008 pick: Derrick Harvey
Not only does Jackson have more than 1,500 more receiving yards than the next closest pass-catcher in the class, he's also been underrated in his durability, having played in 87 of a possible 96 regular-season games. The Jags get a dynamic playmaker instead of one of the bigger busts in the draft -- not a bad exchange.
(Jackson's previous slot: No. 49 overall)
9. Cincinnati Bengals: Calais Campbell, DE
2008 pick: Keith Rivers
Campbell is one of the NFL's really good defensive linemen whom nobody seems to talk about. A giant of a human, the 6-foot-8, 280-plus-pound lineman creates values through his versatility and ability to rush the passer. He has 36.5 sacks (third in the class) but is also a good run-defender. Rivers has fought some major injuries that have diminished his career.
(Campbell's previous slot: No. 50 overall)
10. New England Patriots: Chris Long, DE
2008 pick: Jerod Mayo
Long might be considered a disappointment by some because of his lofty draft slot, but he's put together a solid career and continues to play a key role for one of the better defensive lines in the NFL in St. Louis. He has 50.5 sacks, more than anyone in his draft class, with no fewer than 8.5 in any of the past four seasons. Perhaps not a star, but a really good player. The Patriots did well the first time around, however.
(Long's previous slot: No. 2 overall)
11. Buffalo Bills: Matt Forte, RB
2008 pick: Leodis McKelvin
On a per-carry basis, I think most people would say that I should have Charles in this spot and Forte in the spot below him. But consider that Forte has 843 more rushing yards and 119 more catches, and he has been significantly more durable, with 91 games started to 49 for Charles (who split a lot of reps earlier in his career). Forte has even more rushing yards than Rice, in fact. He's one of the more underrated players in the game today.
(Forte's previous slot: No. 44 overall)
12. Denver Broncos: Jamaal Charles, RB
2008 pick: Ryan Clady
As explosive a runner as the league has seen since he arrived, and that includes Johnson and even Adrian Peterson, who was drafted the year before. Charles has a crazy-high 5.6 yards per carry for his career, including a remarkable 2010, when he averaged 6.4 yards per carry. Although durability concerns have cost him some carries (and an injury cost him a season), he's had a great career and was clearly a steal at No. 73.
(Charles' previous slot: No. 73 overall)
13. Carolina Panthers: Aqib Talib, CB
2008 pick: Jonathan Stewart
The way his time in Tampa ended probably takes away from the fact that Talib has been a very good player when he's on the field, and he's played in 76 of a possible 96 regular-season games. He leads all players from this draft class in interceptions with 23 and maintains a skill set that allows him to cover some of the league's best big targets.
(Talib's previous slot: No. 20 overall)
14. Chicago Bears: Jordy Nelson, WR
2008 pick: Chris Williams
The Bears aren't thin at wide receiver now, but until Brandon Marshall arrived, it was a problem area that a guy like Nelson would have helped. Nelson is more than some lucky recipient of Aaron Rodgers' passes -- he's a very good receiver at every level and is crafty in his ability to improvise when plays get extended, making him a valued player because he helps Rodgers maximize his mobility. Nelson is second only to DeSean Jackson in receiving yards for this class.
(Nelson's previous slot: No. 36 overall)
15. Kansas City Chiefs: Josh Sitton, OT/G
2008 pick: Branden Albert
He's not a flashy player, but Sitton has been a steady guard for five consecutive seasons, having started 80 regular-season games in that time. He was a tackle at Central Florida, but the Packers initially moved him to right guard, where he very quickly looked like one of the better players in the league at that spot. He moved to left guard in 2013.
(Sitton's previous slot: No. 135 overall)
16. Arizona Cardinals: Curtis Lofton, LB
2008 pick: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
He's not a star, but Lofton is a dependable, durable linebacker and leads his draft class in tackles (519 overall) by a wide margin. You can quibble with performance, but health has great value, and Lofton has started 95 of 96 games since he arrived in the NFL. The Falcons got him in Round 2 along with a starting quarterback and a good tackle in Round 1. Not too shabby.
(Lofton's previous slot: No. 37 overall)
17. Detroit Lions: Duane Brown, OT
2008 pick: Gosder Cherilus
When he was a freshman at Virginia Tech, the athletic Brown was a tight end, but he ended up at tackle and ultimately also in the first round. He's been very good in Houston, playing at an All-Pro level in 2012 and making 89 starts through his first six seasons, all at left tackle. His athleticism has been particularly useful in Houston's zone-blocking scheme.
(Brown's previous slot: No. 26 overall)
18. Baltimore Ravens: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB
2008 pick: Joe Flacco
DRC stays at roughly the same slot he was taken. Rodgers-Cromartie was part of the trade that brought Kevin Kolb to Arizona and has been a good if not great cornerback over his first six seasons, with a Pro Bowl in 2009 on his mantle. He's second to Talib in interceptions among this draft class. Suffice it to say that Baltimore and Ozzie Newsome nailed this pick the first time.
(Rodgers-Cromartie's previous slot: No. 16 overall)
19. Carolina Panthers: Carl Nicks, G
2008 pick: Jeff Otah
His past two seasons have been marred by injuries, but Nicks was still one of the steals of the draft when you consider where he was taken versus what he's been at his best in the NFL. The Saints got Nicks at No. 164 overall. He gave them 61 starts over four years and was probably the best guard in the NFL from 2010 to 2011. He got paid for it when signing with Tampa, and and hopefully the Buccaneers gets some return. Otah was a good player who just hasn't stayed healthy.
(Nicks' previous slot: No. 164 overall)
20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Cliff Avril, DE
2008 pick: Aqib Talib
It took a while for Avril to really come into his own, in part because he's not really big enough to completely hold up against the run in a 4-3. But he's at least become a respected NFL pass-rusher, and his 47.5 career sacks (and no, sacks don't tell us everything) are second to only the 50.5 of Chris Long in this draft class.
(Avril's previous slot: No. 92 overall)
21. Atlanta Falcons: Brandon Flowers, CB
2008 pick: Sam Baker
While the Falcons got a good amount of value out of this pick (and definitely this draft), Flowers rates a little higher and would have been a good value here. After struggling as a rookie, he's been a consistent, good player in the Chiefs' secondary from 2009 through 2012 before dipping a bit this season. He's also been healthy, having started 87 games.
(Flowers' previous slot: No. 35 overall)
22. Dallas Cowboys: Pierre Garcon, WR
2008 pick: Felix Jones
One of the steals of the draft, the No. 205 pick overall is behind only Jackson and Nelson in this class for receiving yards, with 4,498. Perhaps most importantly, he proved that he's far more than a Peyton Manning creation and, with the Redskins, quietly led the NFL in catches this past season with 113. As for Jones? Some considered it a luxury pick, and his inability to stay healthy hasn't changed that perception, fair or not.
(Garcon's previous slot: No. 205 overall)
2008 pick: Branden Albert
He's not a flashy player, but Sitton has been a steady guard for five consecutive seasons, having started 80 regular-season games in that time. He was a tackle at Central Florida, but the Packers initially moved him to right guard, where he very quickly looked like one of the better players in the league at that spot. He moved to left guard in 2013.
(Sitton's previous slot: No. 135 overall)
16. Arizona Cardinals: Curtis Lofton, LB
2008 pick: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
He's not a star, but Lofton is a dependable, durable linebacker and leads his draft class in tackles (519 overall) by a wide margin. You can quibble with performance, but health has great value, and Lofton has started 95 of 96 games since he arrived in the NFL. The Falcons got him in Round 2 along with a starting quarterback and a good tackle in Round 1. Not too shabby.
(Lofton's previous slot: No. 37 overall)
17. Detroit Lions: Duane Brown, OT
2008 pick: Gosder Cherilus
When he was a freshman at Virginia Tech, the athletic Brown was a tight end, but he ended up at tackle and ultimately also in the first round. He's been very good in Houston, playing at an All-Pro level in 2012 and making 89 starts through his first six seasons, all at left tackle. His athleticism has been particularly useful in Houston's zone-blocking scheme.
(Brown's previous slot: No. 26 overall)
18. Baltimore Ravens: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB
2008 pick: Joe Flacco
DRC stays at roughly the same slot he was taken. Rodgers-Cromartie was part of the trade that brought Kevin Kolb to Arizona and has been a good if not great cornerback over his first six seasons, with a Pro Bowl in 2009 on his mantle. He's second to Talib in interceptions among this draft class. Suffice it to say that Baltimore and Ozzie Newsome nailed this pick the first time.
(Rodgers-Cromartie's previous slot: No. 16 overall)
19. Carolina Panthers: Carl Nicks, G
2008 pick: Jeff Otah
His past two seasons have been marred by injuries, but Nicks was still one of the steals of the draft when you consider where he was taken versus what he's been at his best in the NFL. The Saints got Nicks at No. 164 overall. He gave them 61 starts over four years and was probably the best guard in the NFL from 2010 to 2011. He got paid for it when signing with Tampa, and and hopefully the Buccaneers gets some return. Otah was a good player who just hasn't stayed healthy.
(Nicks' previous slot: No. 164 overall)
20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Cliff Avril, DE
2008 pick: Aqib Talib
It took a while for Avril to really come into his own, in part because he's not really big enough to completely hold up against the run in a 4-3. But he's at least become a respected NFL pass-rusher, and his 47.5 career sacks (and no, sacks don't tell us everything) are second to only the 50.5 of Chris Long in this draft class.
(Avril's previous slot: No. 92 overall)
21. Atlanta Falcons: Brandon Flowers, CB
2008 pick: Sam Baker
While the Falcons got a good amount of value out of this pick (and definitely this draft), Flowers rates a little higher and would have been a good value here. After struggling as a rookie, he's been a consistent, good player in the Chiefs' secondary from 2009 through 2012 before dipping a bit this season. He's also been healthy, having started 87 games.
(Flowers' previous slot: No. 35 overall)
22. Dallas Cowboys: Pierre Garcon, WR
2008 pick: Felix Jones
One of the steals of the draft, the No. 205 pick overall is behind only Jackson and Nelson in this class for receiving yards, with 4,498. Perhaps most importantly, he proved that he's far more than a Peyton Manning creation and, with the Redskins, quietly led the NFL in catches this past season with 113. As for Jones? Some considered it a luxury pick, and his inability to stay healthy hasn't changed that perception, fair or not.
(Garcon's previous slot: No. 205 overall)
23. Pittsburgh Steelers: Red Bryant, DT
2008 pick: Rashard Mendenhall
After a quiet start to his career, I feel like Bryant has come into his own, particularly in the past season, as a solid run-stuffer in the middle of the Seattle D-line. Maybe I have him too high based on his body of work, but I also like his future if he can stay in his current role. If they're good, players like this are hard to find.
(Bryant's previous slot: No. 121 overall)
24. Tennessee Titans: Brandon Carr, CB
2008 pick: Chris Johnson
Although he's been middle-of-the-road over the past few years after a really good 2010 season, Carr has been extremely durable (starting 96 of 96 games) and is unquestionably one of bigger steals in the draft based on his rate of participation alone. The Division II product collected a big payday in Dallas before 2012.
(Carr's previous slot: No. 140 overall)
25. Dallas Cowboys: Kendall Langford, DT
2008 pick: Mike Jenkins
He's no star, but Langford has put together a good NFL career as a versatile lineman with 86 starts for the Dolphins and Rams. He's not scaring any quarterbacks in tape study, but a lot of players have also thrived playing next to him. Not bad for a third-rounder out of Hampton.
(Langford's previous slot: No. 66 overall)
26. Houston Texans: Gosder Cherilus, OT
2008 pick: Duane Brown
Middle-of-the-road right tackles can make a pretty good living in the NFL, and after five pretty good years in Detroit, the Colts jumped to give Cherilus $35 million ($15 guaranteed) last offseason to improve their own offensive line. Never a star, he's also never been a liability and has put together a good career, which includes 86 starts.
(Cherilus' previous slot: No. 17 overall)
27. San Diego Chargers: Stevie Johnson, WR
2008 pick: Antoine Cason
As big of a steal as there was in this draft, Johnson was taken at No. 224 overall, and was basically forgotten about over his first two years in Buffalo, with just 12 total catches in that time. But he has 289 catches over the past four seasons, and in three of those he exceeded 1,000 receiving yards. He's not a star, but he's been a very good NFL player.
(Johnson's previous slot: No. 224 overall)
28. Seattle Seahawks: Branden Albert, OT
2008 pick: Lawrence Jackson
Named to the Pro Bowl in 2013, Albert has been an underrated pass-blocker for a few years. Jackson never really found the form at this level that made him a stud at USC.
(Albert's previous slot: No. 15 overall)
29. San Francisco 49ers: John Sullivan, C
2008 pick: Kentwan Balmer, DT
Most people had turned off the draft by the time he was taken, and most still don't know who he is. Such is the life of a center. Thing is, Sullivan has been durable and easily one of the top centers in the game the past few seasons.
(Sullivan's previous slot: No. 187 overall)
30. New York Jets: Jermichael Finley, TE
2008 pick: Dustin Keller
Why do I have Finley here instead of Keller, who quietly has more catches (241 to 223) and receiving yards (2,876 to 2,785) since both were drafted? For one, I still think a healthy Finley is the more dynamic player, tougher matchup and -- despite some drop issues -- the more difficult player to prepare for. And secondly, this is still a draft, and Finley is almost 3 years younger.
(Finley's previous slot: No. 91 overall)
31. New York Giants: Jonathan Stewart, RB
2008 pick: Kenny Phillips
Stewart's best season was 2009, when he piled up 1,133 yards and had an impressive 5.1 yards per carry. He's battled injuries often since that time but is also better than his total numbers show, as he hasn't had the chance to truly carry the load in the Carolina system because he's always split the reps with DeAngelo Williams. He's still just 26 and has a chance to have a renaissance, perhaps outside of Carolina.
(Stewart's previous slot: No. 13 overall)
Also considered: Phllip Wheeler, Danny Woodhead, Thomas DeCoud, Glenn Dorsey, Donald Brown, Leodis McKelvin, Mike Tolbert, Tyvon Branch, Rashard Mendenhall, Kyle Arrington,Garrett Hartley, Danny Amendola, Darren McFadden, Ahtyba Rubin, Sam Baker
2008 pick: Rashard Mendenhall
After a quiet start to his career, I feel like Bryant has come into his own, particularly in the past season, as a solid run-stuffer in the middle of the Seattle D-line. Maybe I have him too high based on his body of work, but I also like his future if he can stay in his current role. If they're good, players like this are hard to find.
(Bryant's previous slot: No. 121 overall)
24. Tennessee Titans: Brandon Carr, CB
2008 pick: Chris Johnson
Although he's been middle-of-the-road over the past few years after a really good 2010 season, Carr has been extremely durable (starting 96 of 96 games) and is unquestionably one of bigger steals in the draft based on his rate of participation alone. The Division II product collected a big payday in Dallas before 2012.
(Carr's previous slot: No. 140 overall)
25. Dallas Cowboys: Kendall Langford, DT
2008 pick: Mike Jenkins
He's no star, but Langford has put together a good NFL career as a versatile lineman with 86 starts for the Dolphins and Rams. He's not scaring any quarterbacks in tape study, but a lot of players have also thrived playing next to him. Not bad for a third-rounder out of Hampton.
(Langford's previous slot: No. 66 overall)
26. Houston Texans: Gosder Cherilus, OT
2008 pick: Duane Brown
Middle-of-the-road right tackles can make a pretty good living in the NFL, and after five pretty good years in Detroit, the Colts jumped to give Cherilus $35 million ($15 guaranteed) last offseason to improve their own offensive line. Never a star, he's also never been a liability and has put together a good career, which includes 86 starts.
(Cherilus' previous slot: No. 17 overall)
27. San Diego Chargers: Stevie Johnson, WR
2008 pick: Antoine Cason
As big of a steal as there was in this draft, Johnson was taken at No. 224 overall, and was basically forgotten about over his first two years in Buffalo, with just 12 total catches in that time. But he has 289 catches over the past four seasons, and in three of those he exceeded 1,000 receiving yards. He's not a star, but he's been a very good NFL player.
(Johnson's previous slot: No. 224 overall)
28. Seattle Seahawks: Branden Albert, OT
2008 pick: Lawrence Jackson
Named to the Pro Bowl in 2013, Albert has been an underrated pass-blocker for a few years. Jackson never really found the form at this level that made him a stud at USC.
(Albert's previous slot: No. 15 overall)
29. San Francisco 49ers: John Sullivan, C
2008 pick: Kentwan Balmer, DT
Most people had turned off the draft by the time he was taken, and most still don't know who he is. Such is the life of a center. Thing is, Sullivan has been durable and easily one of the top centers in the game the past few seasons.
(Sullivan's previous slot: No. 187 overall)
30. New York Jets: Jermichael Finley, TE
2008 pick: Dustin Keller
Why do I have Finley here instead of Keller, who quietly has more catches (241 to 223) and receiving yards (2,876 to 2,785) since both were drafted? For one, I still think a healthy Finley is the more dynamic player, tougher matchup and -- despite some drop issues -- the more difficult player to prepare for. And secondly, this is still a draft, and Finley is almost 3 years younger.
(Finley's previous slot: No. 91 overall)
31. New York Giants: Jonathan Stewart, RB
2008 pick: Kenny Phillips
Stewart's best season was 2009, when he piled up 1,133 yards and had an impressive 5.1 yards per carry. He's battled injuries often since that time but is also better than his total numbers show, as he hasn't had the chance to truly carry the load in the Carolina system because he's always split the reps with DeAngelo Williams. He's still just 26 and has a chance to have a renaissance, perhaps outside of Carolina.
(Stewart's previous slot: No. 13 overall)
Also considered: Phllip Wheeler, Danny Woodhead, Thomas DeCoud, Glenn Dorsey, Donald Brown, Leodis McKelvin, Mike Tolbert, Tyvon Branch, Rashard Mendenhall, Kyle Arrington,Garrett Hartley, Danny Amendola, Darren McFadden, Ahtyba Rubin, Sam Baker
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Thank you Made Man....
really appreciate it
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ill
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http://ronjaworski.com/top-qb/
Jaw's top 5 Qb's from the draft:
There's still plenty of time and plenty of evaluation to be done before the National Football League's 2014 draft, but a few things are clear about this year's crop of quarterbacks.
First and foremost, forget the hype you might have heard about this group coming into the season. This is not the 2012 class that featured Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III. There's potential here, but nothing I think teams will move heaven and earth to try to snag at the top of the draft like we saw with the Redskins and Griffin. There are good QBs, but they have flaws and will need work and time to develop into NFL-caliber quarterbacks.
That doesn't mean this crop of QBs is barren, though. I actually think it has a lot of depth. There could be 12 to 13 guys drafted, but no one is really taking the bull by the horns and blowing me away. I think there are some holes in each of their games, but that doesn't mean they won't be great pros.
You may recall that I previously said I wouldn't take Johnny Manziel in the first three rounds of the draft. I've softened that stance a little bit -- we'll get to that below -- but I'm still of the mind that he presents too big of a risk to select with your Round 1 pick. In fact, after breaking down the film, only Blake Bortles of UCF stands out to me as a prospect who is clearly worthy of a first-round pick (although others may very well be drafted in the first round of this year's draft).
Below you'll find my top five prospects in this QB class. It should tell you something that my No. 2 quarterback is something of a wild card. That said, let's start my draft QB countdown at No. 5.
5. Derek Carr, Fresno State Bulldogs
The more I look at Carr, the more I like him. First I looked at a few games in 2012 against San Diego State, New Mexico, Nevada. Then I moved on to 2013 and I saw a very different quarterback. I could see the growth; he handled pressure a lot better than in 2012. Likewise, I didn't think he had really good drive on the ball back then. But this season, I could see the big arm, the NFL skill set. I could see the flashes of precision throws. He flicked balls 55-60 yards downfield just on arm strength. He has easy effort with his throwing motion. There were a number of times where he could turn it loose and throw a laser 20 yards.
And it's not just about his velocity. I love his ball placement. When I see a QB miss throws, it's not always a huge strike against him. It matters where he misses, and that's the case with Carr. When he misses, he misses away from the coverage. Those are misses that aren't going to hurt, and it backs up an impressive stat: 113 touchdowns and only 24 interceptions.
Overall, Carr is a prototypical NFL passer. He's big, strong and can stay in the pocket to deliver the football. He'll have to deal with a muddier pocket in the NFL than he did at Fresno State, since he played out of a spread style offense, but he also has some functional mobility to escape it. And also, quarterbacks who know how to protect the football always have value in the National Football League. Carr may never put up the same numbers he did with the Bulldogs, but his mechanics and approach to the game should translate at the next level.
4. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M Aggies
He's moved up from my initial evaluations, largely due to his impressive pro day performance. I do love the energy he brings to the football field. But all of these college highlights are not magic, and they'll only be replicated at the NFL level with arm strength and accuracy. I saw some of those attributes stand out a little more at his pro day, so I moved him up a little on my board.
The thing about pro days is that everything is scripted. The conditions are set in favor of the prospect, so you need to take it with a grain of salt. You need to figure out what is real and what you'll get at the next level in NFL game situations. That said, he was definitely impressive. I thought this was an outstanding pro day. He dispelled some of the negative thoughts I had regarding his mechanics and how he was off-balance too much on film. I know there was no defense, there was no one rushing him except for a broom a couple of times, but he showed the ability to move, stay balanced and deliver the football.
The two things I really look for from prospects -- and particularly from Manziel -- I call the Killer B's: balance and ball control. He showed those things at his pro day. His throwing slot was more consistent, and he had clearly accepted the coaching from his personal QB instructor, George Whitfield. That was important to me. I would have liked to see more throws down the seam, some more stick throws, but he wasn't asked to do that.
All in all, he was outstanding. He was on par with Bortles' pro day and better than Teddy Bridgewater's. But remember, pro days are just one element of the evaluation.
I said earlier I wouldn't take him in the first three rounds, which was based on five games' worth of film study -- his last four games at A&M and the earlier game against Alabama. I just didn't see many qualities in his game that put him in the first two rounds. I think there's a way you have to play QB in the NFL: from the pocket, with consistency. The NFL is about the pre-snap reads, diagnosing as you drop back and getting the ball out of your hand early, on time for the receiver. Manziel didn't do that on film. He held the ball too long and took some big hits as a result. Can he withstand that kind of punishment in the NFL? And is it worth risking your Round 1 pick to find out? I would have liked to see him stay in school. He is a wild playmaker, but that doesn't project to the NFL game seamlessly. I would have liked to see him be a calm QB for a season, and he still left a lot of plays on the field in 2013.
His pro day definitely helped him in my eyes, and he moves up a little bit in my estimation, but I still wouldn't take him in Round 1. I still see him as a bit of a project. He's worth investing in, but not at the cost of an early pick.
3. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville Cardinals
He had a down pro day, and as previously mentioned, in an environment when everything should be stacked in a player's favor, that's a little disconcerting. Those wobbly throws we saw probably hurt his stock a bit. He struggled with accuracy; he struggled with velocity on sideline throws. I thought it was a definite step backward. The question NFL teams will want answered before draft day is: "Why?" Why was the pro day so lackluster?
That's what's disappointing with Bridgewater. I don't know why he struggled, but the bottom line was the ball didn't come out with velocity and accuracy. He also struggled with mechanics, which I thought was his strength coming in. Those NFL scouts and GMs in attendance want to leave feeling like that guy aced the test. I didn't get that vibe with those there to see Bridgewater. But just like a pro day can only help a player so much, similarly it can only do so much damage. And I still believe Bridgewater is the most NFL-ready QB in the draft. The film showed that the body of work is there, but he'll need to wow some NFL teams in workouts if he's going to maximize his draft stock.
I still like him as a prospect, though. Bridgewater sets protection at the line of scrimmage. He's got excellent mechanics. He reads defenses. All of those aspects are things you have to do at the NFL level. He's shown he can do that. He might not be the No. 1 pick in the draft, but he's got a good developmental curve ahead of him.
2. Zach Mettenberger, LSU Tigers
He's the wild card for me in this draft. We're going to find out at his pro day (April 9) how he is healthwise coming off of ACL surgery. But looking at the tape, I see an NFL skill set.
Scott Brunner is coaching him up. Brunner is the same guy who worked with Joe Flacco coming out of college. I see very similar traits between Mettenberger and Flacco.
At 6-foot-5, 230 pounds, he has the size teams want. I want to see more at his pro day, but he has a big arm on tape. He can make every throw from the pocket. That said, he's a little inconsistent and he struggles at time with his footwork. But I can see him working with Brunner and with Tigers offensive coordinator Cam Cameron down in LSU, and I see a guy who can work the play-action game and the isolation routes to the outside, just like Flacco can. Mettenberger has a good three-step drop, good five-step drop, and those are pro concepts.
Moreover, he looked like an NFL QB in the offense in which he played. The level of competition in the SEC helps too. Every day in practice he saw an LSU defense with pro defensive concepts. He ran NFL route concepts and progressions, and that's a big reason I like him projecting him to the NFL.
The concern is all about the knee. He probably won't be 100 percent, but if he drops some jaws, he could make the first day of the draft very interesting.
1. Blake Bortles, UCF Knights
I watched all the tape and studied his game, and I think he projects nicely in the NFL. When I saw him down in Orlando for his pro day, the ball exploded out of his hand. He's 6-5, 232 pounds, great size for an NFL QB, and he's mobile. When the play breaks down, he can make plays with his legs. That complete package is why he's my top QB in this draft class.
On film, the first thing you see is his stature. He looks like an NFL QB, that Andrew Luck look. There were some things I wanted to see in his pro day workout: I wanted to see him drive the ball to the outside, because I thought at times he was an arm thrower on tape. I wanted to see him sequence his feet, front knee, hip and arm -- and he did. I thought his lower-body mechanics could use work, and he showed improvement at his pro day after working withJordan Palmer. His release was quick and snappy, which also looked improved.
I saw Bortles two days after Bridgewater's pro day, and after five throws you could see the difference between him and Bridgewater. Bortles showed it all: a good arcing deep ball, 20-yard digs, sideline comebacks, checkdowns. I was very impressed.
I think the Houston Texans should take Bortles with the No. 1 overall pick, and his pro day really influenced that opinion. I wasn't sure he was the best QB before then. But you talk about the accuracy, the touch and, of course, the arm strength and he's got it all. I think he has a great future ahead of him, and if you need a QB like the Texans do, I think he's going to be a good one.
Of course, the question that will determine everything is where the Texans have him on theirdraft board. I look at Bortles and I see a quarterback in the mold that is favored by new head coach Bill O'Brien. But I could say something similar for Mettenberger. And if the Texans think they can get Jadeveon Clowney at No. 1 and their top-rated QB at No. 33 ... well, that just makes for a more interesting draft in May.
http://ronjaworski.com/top-qb/
Jaw's top 5 Qb's from the draft:
There's still plenty of time and plenty of evaluation to be done before the National Football League's 2014 draft, but a few things are clear about this year's crop of quarterbacks.
First and foremost, forget the hype you might have heard about this group coming into the season. This is not the 2012 class that featured Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III. There's potential here, but nothing I think teams will move heaven and earth to try to snag at the top of the draft like we saw with the Redskins and Griffin. There are good QBs, but they have flaws and will need work and time to develop into NFL-caliber quarterbacks.
That doesn't mean this crop of QBs is barren, though. I actually think it has a lot of depth. There could be 12 to 13 guys drafted, but no one is really taking the bull by the horns and blowing me away. I think there are some holes in each of their games, but that doesn't mean they won't be great pros.
You may recall that I previously said I wouldn't take Johnny Manziel in the first three rounds of the draft. I've softened that stance a little bit -- we'll get to that below -- but I'm still of the mind that he presents too big of a risk to select with your Round 1 pick. In fact, after breaking down the film, only Blake Bortles of UCF stands out to me as a prospect who is clearly worthy of a first-round pick (although others may very well be drafted in the first round of this year's draft).
Below you'll find my top five prospects in this QB class. It should tell you something that my No. 2 quarterback is something of a wild card. That said, let's start my draft QB countdown at No. 5.
5. Derek Carr, Fresno State Bulldogs
The more I look at Carr, the more I like him. First I looked at a few games in 2012 against San Diego State, New Mexico, Nevada. Then I moved on to 2013 and I saw a very different quarterback. I could see the growth; he handled pressure a lot better than in 2012. Likewise, I didn't think he had really good drive on the ball back then. But this season, I could see the big arm, the NFL skill set. I could see the flashes of precision throws. He flicked balls 55-60 yards downfield just on arm strength. He has easy effort with his throwing motion. There were a number of times where he could turn it loose and throw a laser 20 yards.
And it's not just about his velocity. I love his ball placement. When I see a QB miss throws, it's not always a huge strike against him. It matters where he misses, and that's the case with Carr. When he misses, he misses away from the coverage. Those are misses that aren't going to hurt, and it backs up an impressive stat: 113 touchdowns and only 24 interceptions.
Overall, Carr is a prototypical NFL passer. He's big, strong and can stay in the pocket to deliver the football. He'll have to deal with a muddier pocket in the NFL than he did at Fresno State, since he played out of a spread style offense, but he also has some functional mobility to escape it. And also, quarterbacks who know how to protect the football always have value in the National Football League. Carr may never put up the same numbers he did with the Bulldogs, but his mechanics and approach to the game should translate at the next level.
4. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M Aggies
He's moved up from my initial evaluations, largely due to his impressive pro day performance. I do love the energy he brings to the football field. But all of these college highlights are not magic, and they'll only be replicated at the NFL level with arm strength and accuracy. I saw some of those attributes stand out a little more at his pro day, so I moved him up a little on my board.
The thing about pro days is that everything is scripted. The conditions are set in favor of the prospect, so you need to take it with a grain of salt. You need to figure out what is real and what you'll get at the next level in NFL game situations. That said, he was definitely impressive. I thought this was an outstanding pro day. He dispelled some of the negative thoughts I had regarding his mechanics and how he was off-balance too much on film. I know there was no defense, there was no one rushing him except for a broom a couple of times, but he showed the ability to move, stay balanced and deliver the football.
The two things I really look for from prospects -- and particularly from Manziel -- I call the Killer B's: balance and ball control. He showed those things at his pro day. His throwing slot was more consistent, and he had clearly accepted the coaching from his personal QB instructor, George Whitfield. That was important to me. I would have liked to see more throws down the seam, some more stick throws, but he wasn't asked to do that.
All in all, he was outstanding. He was on par with Bortles' pro day and better than Teddy Bridgewater's. But remember, pro days are just one element of the evaluation.
I said earlier I wouldn't take him in the first three rounds, which was based on five games' worth of film study -- his last four games at A&M and the earlier game against Alabama. I just didn't see many qualities in his game that put him in the first two rounds. I think there's a way you have to play QB in the NFL: from the pocket, with consistency. The NFL is about the pre-snap reads, diagnosing as you drop back and getting the ball out of your hand early, on time for the receiver. Manziel didn't do that on film. He held the ball too long and took some big hits as a result. Can he withstand that kind of punishment in the NFL? And is it worth risking your Round 1 pick to find out? I would have liked to see him stay in school. He is a wild playmaker, but that doesn't project to the NFL game seamlessly. I would have liked to see him be a calm QB for a season, and he still left a lot of plays on the field in 2013.
His pro day definitely helped him in my eyes, and he moves up a little bit in my estimation, but I still wouldn't take him in Round 1. I still see him as a bit of a project. He's worth investing in, but not at the cost of an early pick.
3. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville Cardinals
He had a down pro day, and as previously mentioned, in an environment when everything should be stacked in a player's favor, that's a little disconcerting. Those wobbly throws we saw probably hurt his stock a bit. He struggled with accuracy; he struggled with velocity on sideline throws. I thought it was a definite step backward. The question NFL teams will want answered before draft day is: "Why?" Why was the pro day so lackluster?
That's what's disappointing with Bridgewater. I don't know why he struggled, but the bottom line was the ball didn't come out with velocity and accuracy. He also struggled with mechanics, which I thought was his strength coming in. Those NFL scouts and GMs in attendance want to leave feeling like that guy aced the test. I didn't get that vibe with those there to see Bridgewater. But just like a pro day can only help a player so much, similarly it can only do so much damage. And I still believe Bridgewater is the most NFL-ready QB in the draft. The film showed that the body of work is there, but he'll need to wow some NFL teams in workouts if he's going to maximize his draft stock.
I still like him as a prospect, though. Bridgewater sets protection at the line of scrimmage. He's got excellent mechanics. He reads defenses. All of those aspects are things you have to do at the NFL level. He's shown he can do that. He might not be the No. 1 pick in the draft, but he's got a good developmental curve ahead of him.
2. Zach Mettenberger, LSU Tigers
He's the wild card for me in this draft. We're going to find out at his pro day (April 9) how he is healthwise coming off of ACL surgery. But looking at the tape, I see an NFL skill set.
Scott Brunner is coaching him up. Brunner is the same guy who worked with Joe Flacco coming out of college. I see very similar traits between Mettenberger and Flacco.
At 6-foot-5, 230 pounds, he has the size teams want. I want to see more at his pro day, but he has a big arm on tape. He can make every throw from the pocket. That said, he's a little inconsistent and he struggles at time with his footwork. But I can see him working with Brunner and with Tigers offensive coordinator Cam Cameron down in LSU, and I see a guy who can work the play-action game and the isolation routes to the outside, just like Flacco can. Mettenberger has a good three-step drop, good five-step drop, and those are pro concepts.
Moreover, he looked like an NFL QB in the offense in which he played. The level of competition in the SEC helps too. Every day in practice he saw an LSU defense with pro defensive concepts. He ran NFL route concepts and progressions, and that's a big reason I like him projecting him to the NFL.
The concern is all about the knee. He probably won't be 100 percent, but if he drops some jaws, he could make the first day of the draft very interesting.
1. Blake Bortles, UCF Knights
I watched all the tape and studied his game, and I think he projects nicely in the NFL. When I saw him down in Orlando for his pro day, the ball exploded out of his hand. He's 6-5, 232 pounds, great size for an NFL QB, and he's mobile. When the play breaks down, he can make plays with his legs. That complete package is why he's my top QB in this draft class.
On film, the first thing you see is his stature. He looks like an NFL QB, that Andrew Luck look. There were some things I wanted to see in his pro day workout: I wanted to see him drive the ball to the outside, because I thought at times he was an arm thrower on tape. I wanted to see him sequence his feet, front knee, hip and arm -- and he did. I thought his lower-body mechanics could use work, and he showed improvement at his pro day after working withJordan Palmer. His release was quick and snappy, which also looked improved.
I saw Bortles two days after Bridgewater's pro day, and after five throws you could see the difference between him and Bridgewater. Bortles showed it all: a good arcing deep ball, 20-yard digs, sideline comebacks, checkdowns. I was very impressed.
I think the Houston Texans should take Bortles with the No. 1 overall pick, and his pro day really influenced that opinion. I wasn't sure he was the best QB before then. But you talk about the accuracy, the touch and, of course, the arm strength and he's got it all. I think he has a great future ahead of him, and if you need a QB like the Texans do, I think he's going to be a good one.
Of course, the question that will determine everything is where the Texans have him on theirdraft board. I look at Bortles and I see a quarterback in the mold that is favored by new head coach Bill O'Brien. But I could say something similar for Mettenberger. And if the Texans think they can get Jadeveon Clowney at No. 1 and their top-rated QB at No. 33 ... well, that just makes for a more interesting draft in May.
Thanks but can I get the qb list which ranks the nfl qbs for this year?
Last edited:
ill
Superstar
Are you sure its up? Send me the link and I'll copy and paste it. I don't see it on ESPN anywhere - closest thing I got was that website I linked