No Nap: a look back when Russia tried to collude with China to collapse the US economy

Dr. Acula

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and China luckily rejected their offer. I never knew this and I don’t think most Americans are aware despite “America is the greatest!” Rhetoric how much they are at the mercy of foreign debt holders.

If China had agreed with Russia to dump all their securities, the 2008 crash would have been a picnic relatively speaking. It’s insane to me the US has put itself in such a position where their survival literally depend on what another country decides to do on any day.


Russia 'planned Wall Street bear raid'


For my economics Brehs. Has the dynamic changed at all?
Russia 'planned Wall Street bear raid'
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There is a cynicism in the relationship between Russia and the US, being played out in the Crimean crisis, which is deep, rooted in history and shows that the triumph of capitalism over communism wasn't the end of the power game between these two nations.

The depth of mistrust between the two was highlighted in the interview given by Hank Paulson, the former US treasury secretary, for my recent BBC Two documentary, How China Fooled The World.

The excerpts I am about to quote never made it into the film, because they weren't relevant to it. But they give a fascinating understanding of the complex relationship between Washington and Moscow.

Mr Paulson was talking about the financial crisis of the autumn of 2008, and in particular the devastation being wreaked on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two huge underwriters of American mortgages - huge financial institutions that had a funny status at the time of being seen by investors to be the liability of the US government, which in legal reality were not exactly that.

Here is Mr Paulson on the unfolding drama:

"When Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started to become unglued, and you know there were $5.4tn of securities relating to Fannie and Freddie, $1.7tn outside of the US. The Chinese were the biggest external investor holding Fannie and Freddie securities, so the Chinese were very, very concerned."

Or to put it another way, the Chinese government owned $1.7tn of mortgage-backed bonds issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and it was deeply concerned it would incur huge losses on these bonds.

Mr Paulson: "I was talking to them [Chinese ministers and officials] regularly because I didn't want them to dump the securities on the market and precipitate a bigger crisis.

"And so when I went to Congress and asked for these emergency powers [to stabilise Fannie and Freddie], and I was getting the living daylights beaten out of me by our Congress publicly, I needed to call the Chinese regularly to explain to the Central Bank, 'listen this is our political system, this is political theatre, we will get this done'. And I didn't have quite that much certainty myself but I sure did everything I could to reassure them."

In other words, China had lent so much to the US that Mr Paulson needed to do his best to persuade its government and central bank that China's investment in all this US debt would not be impaired.

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Getty Images
Former US treasury secretary Hank Paulson
Now this is where we enter the territory of a geopolitical thriller. Mr Paulson:

"Here I'm not going to name the senior person, but I was meeting with someone… This person told me that the Chinese had received a message from the Russians which was, 'Hey let's join together and sell Fannie and Freddie securities on the market.' The Chinese weren't going to do that but again, it just, it just drove home to me how vulnerable I felt until we had put Fannie and Freddie into conservatorship [the rescue plan for them, that was eventually put in place]."

For me this is pretty jaw-dropping stuff - the Chinese told Hank Paulson that the Russians were suggesting a joint pact with China to drive down the price of the debt of Fannie and Freddie, and maximize the turmoil on Wall Street - presumably with a view to maximizing the cost of the rescue for Washington and further damaging its financial health.

Paulson says this guerrilla skirmish in markets by the Russians and Chinese didn't happen.

But this kind of intelligence from China on Russian desire and willingness to embarrass the US in a financial sense may help to explain - in a small way - why President Obama shows little desire to understand Crimea as seen by Mr Putin.

And maybe if the US is being a bit more robust than the EU in wanting to impose economic and financial sanctions on Russia, that may not all be about America's much lesser dependence (negligible dependence) on Russian gas and oil.
 
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FAH1223

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Not much has changed. The China-Russia partnership has only grown and gotten stronger.

China still holds that amount or more of debt. I think its something like $2 trillion.

The US and Russian economies aren't linked. And the EU sanctions hurt the Russians but forced them to adjust... which is why their agricultural industry has experienced a boom in the recent years.

China and Russia also are buying up and storing massive amount of gold.
 

Leasy

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Russia is afraid of China though have a neighbor that is becoming powerful on the level of America is not good for Russia at all. I can’t wait to see how this plays out
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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nikkas

Think

This

shyt

is

A

Game.

They mocked me for years trying to get yall too pay attention to how nefarious this shyt is. This is precisely why I'm so harsh on foreign policy.

If you aren't eating, you're food out here. Period. They ain't waiting for you.








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Lesfilles

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No one will ever 'ask' for their debt back from another country...if China asked us for the debt we'd simply take away their economic growth by demanding they raise their currency to the level it should be at so we can send our factories (which have aided their economic growth more than anything) back to the US.... plus we'd just look to Western/Eastern Europe and Japan to give us our money back and they don't have it either...China is buying up gold, yeah sure, but the US will just collude with the UK to topple the value of it.

Half of China's economic growth is made up anyways...
 
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