Old Heads....What Was It Like When LL Came on the Scene and

[Pool_Shark]

What was it like during the beef between him and Kool Moe Dee?

I've been listening to a lot of his albums recently and am blown away by the skills. The rhymes weren't as complex as Nas, but the delivery, cadence, and storytelling are something else. Like if any artist came out today spitting like that it'd be . I also enjoy how he doesn't really rely on cussing as much as people do now.

Anyway I'm trying to get a perspective on how it was when he first came out. Was everyone jocking him? Was everyone accepting of his rap style? What side were you on between LL and Kool Moe Dee? Was the whole thing one-sided or was it a real competition?

I wish rappers today did shyt like this

 

[Big Mel]

Young homos, what's it like running from bullies in skinny jeans?

 

[Rakim Allah]

I was onLL side cuzz even tho Moe Dee had skills he was corn to me.

When LL came out you only heard his voice (he had no videos)until he made the apperance on krush groove.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHJ0kBj4GmI]SHORTCUT - LL COOL J - first movie appearance KRUSH GROOVE [1985] - YouTube[/ame]
LL became my fav rapper along with Run and Slick Rick when I saw this 85.

LL represented hardcore Hip Hop(85-87) in my mind and was the closet thing U had to a MJ and Prince for Hip Hop, he was truly a superstar but kept it Hip Hop. He had a lot other rappers at the time who didn't care for his cockiness like Moe Dee, Ice T and even his mentor Run. You would always hear rumors of LL getting into it at some club or function. Like him supposedly gettin banked on in L.A and Oakland.

The beef with Moe Dee was cool cuz they would make sly remarks in songs and toward the end of the 80s they went full tilt at each other. Moe Dee had the sharper disses while LL had the better diss songs.

LL has all the qualities of an EMCEE and artist. Plus his stage presence is second to none...nawaaasayin??

Rakim is the Greatest EMCEE but LL is the Greatest Hip Hop Artist. He was on from 85 to 06...21 yrs. Jay Z may eventually surpass him but LL had 11 yrs on him and was selling platinum records during a period when Hip Hop was seen as fad in the mainstream and Hip Hop was not all on the radio or TV.

 

[Taadow]

At the time I was a li'l boy, but:

Moe Dee was a monster. He was large.

LL was a young dude gaining momentum. And he ate because...you know, L's L'd him. lol

I fucced with both of their chit, I had no bias.

In retrospect, I think Moe Dee's legacy may get slighted by some because he had kind of a New Jack Swing style when it was just getting popular. You could argue he was the first popular rapper whose style was more swag instead of being a (for lack of a better term) "dungeon dragon" over disco breaks.

 

[Oroko Saki]

I cant say, I was born in 87

A young LL sounds like the rappers that came before him but on steroids. Im familiar with all his albums, started getting into him maybe 3 years ago. Definitely a top 10 rapper all time

 

[feelosofer]

The thing with the beef between LL and Koe Moe was that it was really two different generations going against each other. When that beef popped off it was like between a rising star and a veteran that was on the verge of retiring, which in and of itself was crazy because Moe Dee was only 26 or 27 when they were beefing, I mean they were only like 5 years apart, but rap careers were generally short lived back then. I mean there was rap groups that disbanded at 20 and shyt, but i digress. It's still one of my favorite battles because it was made up of most subliminals and shyt especially from Kool Moe Dee's end. But yea LL was an incredible talent and to be honest outside of Mama Said Knock I would argue that dude lyrically never reached his full potential, if he did he's be top 3 if not top 10, dude had the full package, but I'll say back in the late 80's I was a Kool Moe Dee man all the way, the Treacherous Three was my favorite group as a young'un even over Run DMC and Whodini.

 

[Pool_Shark]

Thanks to everyone that posted. I appreciate it. Hearing ll reminds me a lot of today's talent, sometimes. I almost think the super lyrical rhymes are gonna be looked as a part of the 90s era and hip hop is going to move past and evolve in the right direction, hopefully.

My bad if anyone took offense to the term "Old heads" just trying to get the right people's attention.

 

[Beegio]

LL had the streets on lock. nikkas used to walk around with big ass boomboxes on their shoulder forreal. Even before "Im Bad".

When he dropped "If you think you can out rap me, yeah boy I bet, I ain't met a muthafukka who could do that yet", nikkas was like

Cussing on raps was VERY rare back then.

"Radio" was what put him on the map though.

As far as him and Kool Moe Dee, it was more that KMD had the nuts to go after LL more so than his raps IMO, but Moe Dee was corny ass shyt to me with his costume and big ass laser tag glasses.

Moe Dee had fat and old bytches (21+) on lock.

 

[MouseTeeth]

Good to c some OGs talkin bout some 80s hip hop. I'm jealous I have to experience that era second hand.

 

[Rakim Allah]

I'm just happy to see LL gettin his props...yeah he pretty much completly gave up on us bboys after the GOAT album but he was the poster boy of a BBOY/EMCEE in the 80s. His style was parody from the Wayans and Robert Townsend...yep them Adult Contemporary niccas was threatened

 

[Art Barr]

When the boy king debuted it was complete dominance out the gate.
As i need a beat the long version was close to eight minutes of uncut raw.
Which still to this day is unmatched for that era.
Plus his power of vocal or the ll growl is still unmatched.
In the time period before the old school way of thought.
Would be interceded by the new school way of though.
Of which ll is like the bridge point between both.
Which is why he suffered criticism for his girl song direction.
Yet, he was doing nuffin more than appeasing his old school drawing fans.
As he actually is a throwback to the ol school way of thought than most pay attention to.
As he is the first signed lp released act ondefjam, and actualized protege to silver fox.
That actually achieved kony status, as a boy.
Whereas fox was a late start and never would have been considered for kony, outside of being one of the best emcees ever.
LL, to the displeasure of new school fans.
Made his legacy as the best commercially skilled emcee blueprint ever.
Cj, or ll cool j still made those records showing the most consistent skill, and actualization as a consistent seller.
while also providing the largest bulk of quality for those types of records.
After him the only artist with convincing long term quality and success making girl records is rakim.
Yet, rakim only has made a handful at best. Those handfull still rival or argueably eclipse ll's best work, in the girl song lane.
Yet, rakim dead this after a few production sonic soundscsoe changes.
Plus it was handled so well, in pr and execution.
That the stoic rakim never came under fire like LL did for similar record.
Yet, rakim never was a flagship top drawing label's artist.
Carrying an entire industry setting model on his shoulders aa a boy.
Rakim had the luxury of being a legal adult.
LL had to carry a burden much bigger, as a child.
So, ll had to create those types of records, in consistent bulk.
In doing so, ll apologized for this.
Then also, later on actually showed how to make.
what will always bean unmatched full project of this style of record on James Todd smith the lp.
Of which includes the largest bulk recording of the girl record done with the most consistent quality track to track, wholeheartedly.

Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

The beef between LL and moe dee.
Was actually from two situations or beefs.
One, ll's mentor silver fox.
Was looking to battle and serve look moe dee for years.
To attain a nod as the best historical battle emcee of that era.
After moe des's cherrypicked busy bee to live in enfamy.

So, moe dee ducked for years.
Next,...ll was a former unwanted hanger on to moe dee.
To the point moe kicked LL out of a studio session.
Which I believe is the story to that lead to how fox and LL created their kindred then.
Of course, since moe ded was a cherry picker and LL was now the larger label drawing emcee.
Moe dee challenged silver Foxx's younger upstart by calling ll out on stage.
So, moe dee ducked fox for years.
Then to add insult to injury moe dee, on ho shyt went after ll.
Just because ll was the larger drawing younger act than fox.
Figuring L, was a cakewalk, to drawing prominence.

How wrong was moe dee?

Art Barr

Art Barr

 

[Niqqa You Gay]

When the boy king debuted it was complete dominance out the gate.
As i need a beat the long version was close to eight minutes of uncut raw.
Which still to this day is unmatched for that era.
Plus his power of vocal or the ll growl is still unmatched.
In the time period before the old school way of thought.
Would be interceded by the new school way of though.
Of which ll is like the bridge point between both.
Which is why he suffered criticism for his girl song direction.
Yet, he was doing nuffin more than appeasing his old school drawing fans.
As he actually is a throwback to the ol school way of thought than most pay attention to.
As he is the first signed lp released act ondefjam, and actualized protege to silver fox.
That actually achieved kony status, as a boy.
Whereas fox was a late start and never would have been considered for kony, outside of being one of the best emcees ever.
LL, to the displeasure of new school fans.
Made his legacy as the best commercially skilled emcee blueprint ever.
Cj, or ll cool j still made those records showing the most consistent skill, and actualization as a consistent seller.
while also providing the largest bulk of quality for those types of records.
After him the only artist with convincing long term quality and success making girl records is rakim.
Yet, rakim only has made a handful at best. Those handfull still rival or argueably eclipse ll's best work, in the girl song lane.
Yet, rakim dead this after a few production sonic soundscsoe changes.
Plus it was handled so well, in pr and execution.
That the stoic rakim never came under fire like LL did for similar record.
Yet, rakim never was a flagship top drawing label's artist.
Carrying an entire industry setting model on his shoulders aa a boy.
Rakim had the luxury of being a legal adult.
LL had to carry a burden much bigger, as a child.
So, ll had to create those types of records, in consistent bulk.
In doing so, ll apologized for this.
Then also, later on actually showed how to make.
what will always bean unmatched full project of this style of record on James Todd smith the lp.
Of which includes the largest bulk recording of the girl record done with the most consistent quality track to track, wholeheartedly.

Art Barr

You know good and well this is too long for someone to take the time to read

 

[mrkaine]

I was onLL side cuzz even tho Moe Dee had skills he was corn to me.

When LL came out you only heard his voice (he had no videos)until he made the apperance on krush groove.
SHORTCUT - LL COOL J - first movie appearance KRUSH GROOVE [1985] - YouTube
LL became my fav rapper along with Run and Slick Rick when I saw this 85.

LL represented hardcore Hip Hop(85-87) in my mind and was the closet thing U had to a MJ and Prince for Hip Hop, he was truly a superstar but kept it Hip Hop. He had a lot other rappers at the time who didn't care for his cockiness like Moe Dee, Ice T and even his mentor Run. You would always hear rumors of LL getting into it at some club or function. Like him supposedly gettin banked on in L.A and Oakland.

The beef with Moe Dee was cool cuz they would make sly remarks in songs and toward the end of the 80s they went full tilt at each other. Moe Dee had the sharper disses while LL had the better diss songs.

LL has all the qualities of an EMCEE and artist. Plus his stage presence is second to none...nawaaasayin??

Rakim is the Greatest EMCEE but LL is the Greatest Hip Hop Artist. He was on from 85 to 06...21 yrs. Jay Z may eventually surpass him but LL had 11 yrs on him and was selling platinum records during a period when Hip Hop was seen as fad in the mainstream and Hip Hop was not all on the radio or TV.

i would have probably written this exact sentiment....

 

[mson]

The beef between LL and moe dee.
Was actually from two situations or beefs.
One, ll's mentor silver fox.
Was looking to battle and serve look moe dee for years.
To attain a nod as the best historical battle emcee of that era.
After moe des's cherrypicked busy bee to live in enfamy.

So, moe ded ducked for years.
Next,...ll was a former unwanted hanger on to moe dee.
To the point moe kicked LL out of a studio session.
Which I believe is the story to that lead to how fox and LL created their kindred then.
Of course, since moe ded was a cherry picker and LL was now the larger label drawing emcee.
Moe dee challenged silver Foxx's younger upstart by calling ll out on stage.
So, moe dee ducked fox for years.
Then to add insult to injury moe dee, on ho shyt went after ll.
Just because ll was the larger drawing younger act than fox.
Figuring L, was a cakewalk, to drawing prominence.

How wrong was moe ded?

Art Barr

Art Barr