Peter Thiel: What Trump Represents Isn't Crazy and Isn't Going Away

TLR Is Mental Poison

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The Opposite Of Elliott Wilson's Mohawk
It's like people have just completely forgotten the last 30 years of this oblivious clown's public embarrassment.

I know, emails. Benghazi. Bill's hoes.
Hey- emails, Benghazi and Bill's life as a sexual predator do matter.

But so does lending legitimacy to white supremacy, as well as Gary Busey as the 9th SCJ.

The real problem with American political discourse in 2016 is neither party is willing to concede their own faults in an earnest, sincere way.
 

ill

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Mother Russia & Greater Israel
:mjlol:Read that sentence to yourself, breh.

You're absolutely lacking in judgment if you think celebrity goofball idiot Donald Trump should have any government office, let alone the presidency.

Donald Trump:russ:

DONALD TRUMP:laff::laff::laff:

I think people fully understand Trumps shortfall and how he truly represents the word 'clown' but the failures of our establishment are greater than the fear of this clown. I early voted for Gary so my conscience is clear. Im just here to debate, I don't actually care who you vote for. Trump is a joke. Always has been and always will be. If this were 10 years ago, he would be laughed out of the building while we all yell "You're Fired" at him. Today, his clown persona is secondary to changing our current trajectory. The Clintons embody what the common American hates about our government. For many, changing THAT is far more important than Trumps POS character. In any other election cycle, I would 100% agree with you that Trump has no place in government. This election is an exception and he may be a necessary evil to get things back on track.
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

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The Opposite Of Elliott Wilson's Mohawk
Let's be reality, the reason for the anger whether at the conscious level or not is due to the election of Obama. A lot of white people can't stand or haven't gotten used to the idea of a black president.

The man wasn't in office for a month and they had already organized a movement to oppose his presidency under the guise of fiscal responsibility.

That was bullshyt..... to a degree.

P28ZmpjGqC5_r6lrh0rJmdcLN2_K8YuLkWXwuVi46pW1D61KnLboqERe6Xle84nZQdsrHqHVN7680y8hxKmAIfInGdl7Mw6eaF701sKVJ8_qPhv0enitOFSIzMVTZhyACA


When you compare our deficit as % of GDP...

usgs_line.php


vs GDP annual growth....

united-states-gdp-growth.png


2 things become obvious.... 1, the concept of a recovery since 2009 is a complete joke, and 2 the US has not been the huge post WW2 growth engine everyone assumes it to be. Its tough to say what would or wouldn't have happened if Obama hadn't opened the floodgates in 09 but at the end of the day he (and Bush) added like $10T to the CC balance :yeshrug:
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

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The Opposite Of Elliott Wilson's Mohawk
I think people fully understand Trumps shortfall and how he truly represents the word 'clown' but the failures of our establishment are greater than the fear of this clown. I early voted for Gary so my conscience is clear. Im just here to debate, I don't actually care who you vote for. Trump is a joke. Always has been and always will be. If this were 10 years ago, he would be laughed out of the building while we all yell "You're Fired" at him. Today, his clown persona is secondary to changing our current trajectory. The Clintons embody what the common American hates about our government. For many, changing THAT is far more important than Trumps POS character. In any other election cycle, I would 100% agree with you that Trump has no place in government. This election is an exception and he may be a necessary evil to get things back on track.
Anyone who thinks Trump's complete incompetence can be overlooked is wrong. Yes, the establishment has failed. No, that doesn't make Trump a good substitute/catalyst for a new beginning.
 

ghostwriterx

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I think people fully understand Trumps shortfall and how he truly represents the word 'clown' but the failures of our establishment are greater than the fear of this clown. I early voted for Gary so my conscience is clear. Im just here to debate, I don't actually care who you vote for. Trump is a joke. Always has been and always will be. If this were 10 years ago, he would be laughed out of the building while we all yell "You're Fired" at him. Today, his clown persona is secondary to changing our current trajectory. The Clintons embody what the common American hates about our government. For many, changing THAT is far more important than Trumps POS character. In any other election cycle, I would 100% agree with you that Trump has no place in government. This election is an exception and he may be a necessary evil to get things back on track.

I've never understood this line of reasoning. How exactly is Trump going to change the system for the better?:patrice:
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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When I first read that article I checked some of the studies and they seemed like bullshyt. For example the fact that there is a correlation between thinking Obama is a Muslim and Trump support doesn't mean all or even most Trump supporters think Obama is a Muslim. That is a shady way of presenting statistics. Even when you look at the more convincing data presented regarding racial resentment, that is a look at self-identifying Republicans, who are a rapidly shrinking group.
It's not bullshyt just because you don't want to believe it. Most Trump supporters do believe Obama is a Muslim. This is a fact. Study after study has shown this.

Poll: Two-Thirds of Trump Backers Think Obama Is Muslim

Trump Supporters Think Obama is A Muslim Born in Another Country


Not to mention, even if racial resentment is the main driver of Trump's rise, it's hardly the ONLY one, as Vox/WaPo/The Atlantic/other lefty puff piece sources keep trying to sell it to be.

It isn't close to a puff piece, that's just ridiculous. The data they put together it thorough. Read it. Other studies on the matter have come to the same conclusion. Just because the results don't correlate with the narrative you want to believe doesn't mean they aren't valid.

Much of that racial resentment is (unfairly/without warrant) driven, IMO anyway, by the false recovery and slow economic erosion of the middle class, which started in earnest with GWB's election. Since Vox likes statistics so much I wonder if they'd talk about that correlation. White nationalism has always been around but the shyt really seemed to take off after the recession :francis:

:russell: Bullshyt. I can tell you didn't even read the Vox piece because it went to lengths to factor in and weight the significance of attitudes toward the economy and the conclusion is that racial resentment, not economics is the prime driver of Trump's support.

How I determined Trump support isn't about the economy
Here’s how I examined the 2016 ANES pilot survey, which includes a number of questions on economic attitudes as well as attitudes toward race, religion, and immigration.

I compared feeling thermometer evaluations for Donald Trump and those for Hillary Clinton. These evaluations run from 100 (most positive) to 0 (most negative). By looking at the difference in these evaluations, voters were ranked from 100 (most positive toward Clinton, most negative toward Trump) and -100 (most negative toward Clinton, most positive toward Trump). Those in the middle (a score of zero) were equally positive (or negative) toward the two candidates.

The first was a variable measuring how optimistic or pessimistic respondents were about economic opportunity in the US consisting of the combined results of these two questions:

  • Do you think people’s ability to improve their financial well-being is now better, worse, or the same as it was 20 years ago?
  • Compared with your parents, do you think it is easier, harder, or neither easier nor harder for you to move up the income ladder?
I also included a variable that asked whether respondents believed the nation's economy is now better, about the same, or worse than it was a year ago. Since Trump has made opposition to free trade agreements a key part of his campaign message, another variable measured whether respondents favor or oppose the US making free trade agreements with other countries.

To measure attitudes toward different races, religions, and immigrant groups, I included a variable measuring racial resentment, which combines the responses to the following statements:

  • Over the past few years, black people have gotten less than they deserve.
  • Irish, Italian, Jewish, and many other minorities overcame prejudice and worked their way up. Black people should do the same without any special favors.
  • It's really a matter of some people not trying hard enough; if black people would only try harder they could be just as well off as white people.
  • Generations of slavery and discrimination have created conditions that make it difficult for black people to work their way out of the lower class.
Other variables include whether respondents believe that President Obama is a Muslim, whether the number of legal immigrants should be increased or decreased, and how well respondents think the word "violent" describes Muslims.

Here's what I found
Next I ran a regression model to see how much impact the different variables had. The results of the model are shown in the graph below. The dots represent the impact that variable has on support for Clinton versus Trump.

Since all variables have been scaled from 0 to 1, the location of the dots shows the impact of going from the lowest to highest level of the variable. Dots on the negative or left side of the line indicate that respondents become more favorable toward Trump as they move from lower to higher levels for the variable. Dots on the right or positive side of the graph indicate that they become more favorable to Hillary Clinton.

For example, the result for the party identification variable is -57, indicating that Republicans (1) were, on average, 57 points more favorable to Trump than Clinton compared with strong Democrats (0). Similarly, the older the voter, the more likely he is to support Hillary Clinton. The lines intersecting the dots represent the 95 percent confidence intervals. When the lines touch zero, the result is not statistically significant.

And you know damn well white nationalism took off because there's a black president, not because of the recession. People have always been poor and the average tea partier is not poor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?_r=0

These are the same people voting for Trump. The spike white nationalism is because of Obama, immigration, fear of Islamic terrorism, and the changing racial demographics of the country. Things have gotten better economically since the height of the recession in 2009. Gee, I wonder why white nationalism has taken off and become more overt since then.


Plus you mention Trump supporters are not all poor and downtrodden.... so what? You make six figures right? Does that free you from having any anxiety about the economy or future in general? :comeon:

:russ: I wish I made 6 figures.

What I'm telling you is that this stuff about Trump voters being rust belt workers driven by their suffering from deindustrialization isn't rooted in reality and is just a narrative the "liberal" media came up with early in the election cycle because they are sensitive to perception that they are snooty beltway elitist liberals who just call people dumb and racists. Well, they are mostly racists and they're the exact same people who voted these tea party retards in from 2010 until now. Sometimes the liberal elite line is true.

You have bought into this false, discredited narrative and I already checked you on it in that stupid thread you made about how Hillary needs to try and win over Trump-leaning rust belt workers. Rust belt workers and workers in blue manufacturing aren't voting different than they ever have. Trump is going to lose the entire rust belt except for Indiana and maybe Ohio. Trump voters are coming from the south and the heartland just like Republicans always do.


Bottom line, we can argue how big or small a factor racial resentment is,

And it's the primary factor and all the data is on my side. You've got nothing.

but my big worry here is that the left is using the racism helping to fuel Trump's rise to look past its own failures. Trump's parents being in the KKK and him courting white nationalists doesn't make Hillary any less of a terrible candidate, or make worries and anger over trade or foreign policy any less legitimate. How quickly #EstablishmentSet forgets how the empire was almost taken over by Bernie. I personally know people who jumped from Bernie to Trump. People love to talk about how the right is imploding and all that but the left has issues that are just as serious.... if they didn't they wouldn't have lost all govt south of the Presidency, they would have someone better than Hillary for the DNC ticket, and they wouldn't be struggling against Donald fukking Trump. Whether or not Trump gets elected, the big winners in this election are the usual suspects- big business and white nationalism.
And the Dems suck too, but the reality is the majority of Trump supporters are older fairly well-to-do white males who are not voting based on trade and foreign policy, but on illegal immigration, fear, and racial resentment. I live in sunny northeast FL and I know a few of them and work with them. Middle class homeowners with good jobs who don't give a shyt about NAFTA or TPP. They just like a loudmouth posturing tough guy who is against the establishment and will protect them from Mexicans, Muslim, and black lives matter.
 
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Berniewood Hogan

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The Clintons embody what the common American hates about our government.
A ship of state turning slowly in a progressive direction while carefully traversing the minefield of harsh twenty-first century global political and economic realities?

That's just my opinion, anyway. I could be wrong. The opinion of a very large number of Trump supporters is that our government is a Luciferian cabal of Illuminati devil worshippers who want to Gog and Magog their way to a demonic Clinton presidency so she can complete her hit-list bingo card and usher in the reign of the Antichrist.

q8Acggf.jpg
 

Robbie3000

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A ship of state turning slowly in a progressive direction while carefully traversing the minefield of harsh twenty-first century global political and economic realities?

That's just my opinion, anyway. I could be wrong. The opinion of a very large number of Trump supporters is that our government is a Luciferian cabal of Illuminati devil worshippers who want to Gog and Magog their way to a demonic Clinton presidency so she can complete her hit-list bingo card and usher in the reign of the Antichrist.

q8Acggf.jpg

:russ:
 

King Kreole

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People like Peter Thiel and @King Kreole try to project their own ideologies on the deplorables and pretend they're learned policy-watchers instead of the same racists who have voted Republican for the past 50 years.
I have never attributed to Trump any ideas or proposals that have not come out of his own mouth. I have also never projected anything onto the "deplorable" faction of Trump's supporters. As I've said before, I would be eminently more culturally comfortable at a Hillary rally than at a Trump rally. IRL I don't know or interact with anyone supporting Trump. Of course certain loud factions of his supporters are disgraceful bigots and racists. I've never denied that. But the idea that the only, or even main, factor driving his campaign is guttural racist resentment is wrongheaded to me. If the simple desire to denigrate and harm the black and latino communities was the main driving factor for his supporters, why didn't they revolt every time he spoke out against the mistreatment of these communities? And he's been doing that quite often during the general election. Surely, saying something like this would be anathema to these people:

For centuries, the African-American church has been the conscience of our country...Nothing is more sad than when we sideline young black men with unfulfilled potential, tremendous potential...I fully understand that the African-American community has suffered from discrimination and that there are many wrongs that must still be made right and they will be right. I want America prosperous for everyone. I want to make this city the economic envy of the world and we can do that. We can do that again.

or

The African-American community has given so much to this country. They’ve fought and died in every war since the Revolution. They’ve lifted up the conscience of our nation in the long march for Civil Rights. They’ve sacrificed so much for the national good. Yet, nearly 4 in 10 African-American children still live in poverty, and 58% of young African-Americans are not working.

We must do better as a country. I refuse to believe that the future must be like the past.

In a Trump Administration, all workers – of all colors – will get priority for jobs in their own country. I want higher wages for African-Americans, for Hispanic-Americans, for all Americans.

That doesn't sound like typical Klan rally fare to me. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Trump's general election campaign has been the most racially progressive one from a Republican in modern political history. Every time he talks about onerous trade deals, he mentions the harm they've done to minority communities. Every time he talks about immigration policy, he mentions the harm being done to minority communities. Whether or not you believe it to be true, you cannot deny the fact he's made it a central campaign point. I would argue that xenophobia is the dominant cultural undercurrent he's stoking, not traditional anti-black racism. Notice we haven't seen him utilize the Republican "welfare queen" trope, which has been used to reduce critical funding to predominantly black communities, which Trump wants to increase funding to. Notice we haven't seen the "blacks are beyond help" trope. Notice when he (crudely) talks about crime, he's not necessarily talking about white fears of black criminality, he's talking about black people being free from crime. It's not white people who can't walk down the streets of Chicago without getting shot. Trump's rhetoric casts blacks as "hard done by", which is a complete inversion from the typical overt racist ideation. This is most likely because Trump spent the majority of his life in a culturally liberal sphere. This is how white liberals talk about black people. "Oh, The poor blacks." The difference is white Liberals (rightly and wrongly) pin it all on the Republican Party, while Trump is now (rightly and wrongly) pinning it all on the Democratic Party because he's playing Coriolanus. But you cannot hide a Roman accent.

Anyway, the average American is so, so undereducated when it comes to the political sphere and how power is wielded in this country. So no, I don't believe the average Trump supporter, or average Clinton supporter for that matter, is some "learned policy-watcher". Politics is ultimately tribal. Trump, more than any other candidate, has revealed that. But his tribe has been cheering for things like large scale investment in predominantly African-American communities, acceptance of LGBT individuals into the fold of those deserving basic human dignity, cessation of nation building foreign policy. The law and order thing cannot be ignored, but the schizophrenic nature of Trump's campaign has given us the opportunity to shape the lessons from this episode of American political history in one of two ways, and have legitimate evidence for either direction. We could go with your idea of Trump as the culmination of America's ugly racist, misogynistic, hate-filled history, thereby casting aside all the people he politically activated away as incorrigible ne'er-do-wells. Or we could acknowledge the "better angels of Trump's Campaign nature" and build a cross-partisan bridge on that basis. To say that Trump supporters will just go back to voting for Republicans is casting Trump as a typical Republican, which he is obviously not. His supporters are the people that killed Jeb and mounted his head on a pike. There's a deep and hopefully now impassable road between these Trump supporters and the Republican mainstream. The Republican Party is an ideological joke and should never be resuscitated. I want to stoke that divide and cut off its lifeblood. For some ungodly reason, you want to deliver it right back into a state of prominence.
 
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