Real talk, As Hip Hop Production Got More and More Dope Artistically It Lost a Certain Kind of Depth

[ThaRealness]

Hard to explain what Im trying to say, but basically hip hop turned into fine art in the last 15 years, and there's a tradeoff within that space. Sometimes the most meaningful samples are the least complex..

Nowadays, every serious beat isa unique artistic statement that is governed by certain principles. its like the music equivalent of when visual artists started focusing on texture, and throwing thick globs of paint on the canvas to throw off the viewer's spatial orientation.

This is something Kanye would gladly take credit for, but Alchemist to Madlib been churnin out expressionist art for a minute now. Lemme show you what I mean.





Personally, I consider Alchemist and Madlib to be up there with the best 90s producers. But I dont think they quite have that ability to craft anthems like T.R.O.Y. or 93 To Infinity. their craft is so advanced that not every sample is going to be mallable enough for them to work with.

More generally, I don't think some of the most meaningful 90s samples would work from a modern design standpoint. Heaven & Hell and keep it rollin are good examples examples of this.

In the 90s all you had to do was find an ill sample, and add drums. If the rhythm was basic, but the vibe was right, thats all that mattered

So its not like one approach is better or worse then the other. 90s hip hop was perfect for the era, and so how could it evolve without certain elements being lost in translation?

 

[SirBiatch]

Hard to explain what Im trying to say, but basically hip hop turned into fine art in the last 15 years, and there's a tradeoff within that space. Sometimes the most meaningful samples are the least complex..

Nowadays, every serious beat isa unique artistic statement that is governed by certain principles. its like the music equivalent of when visual artists started focusing on texture, and throwing thick globs of paint on the canvas to throw off the viewer's spatial orientation.

What you're saying is that hip hop got more shallow and pretentious. Which it did.

Make no mistake: hip hop was far more complex in the 80s and 90s than it was in the 2000s. Why do you think it took so long to catch on in the mainstream? Hip hop had to dumb itself down before basic cacs and some Blacks even understood the art. And that's long after producers/rappers removed regional/stylistic references that only hip hop fans would understand.

You might think that Kanye and them 'new' nikkas are making complex beats, but in reality, they're not saying anything with their beats.

Compare that shyt to this, which as a hip hop piece, is complex as fukk:



There are like 10 different people/voices all talking about the song subject matter from different eras from different angles. Premo's beat and scratching alone is like a big conversation, mapping out the entire New York, then Rakim adds his part.

Production fell the fukk off. Beats nowadays don't say anything substantial for the most part.

Personally, I consider Alchemist and Madlib to be up there with the best 90s producers.

But I dont think they quite have that ability to craft anthems like T.R.O.Y. or 93 To Infinity.

so how they are up there with the best 90s producers?

their craft is so advanced that not every sample is going to be mallable enough for them to work with.

That's the excuse?

How about: they're just not good enough.

In the 90s all you had to do was find an ill sample, and add drums. If the rhythm was basic, but the vibe was right, thats all that mattered

Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Cats back then were really producing. Spending time with rappers. Figuring out what their world was like, crafting beats that fit their voice, personality, worldview and environment....

at anyone who thinks cats like Premo, Timbaland, Pete Rock, Havoc, Dre, etc were just making beats like these new nikkas, willy-nilly with no thought and tossing them at whoever.

 

[ThaRealness]

What you're saying is that hip hop got more shallow and pretentious. Which it did.

Make no mistake: hip hop was far more complex in the 80s and 90s than it was in the 2000s. Why do you think it took so long to catch on in the mainstream? Hip hop had to dumb itself down before basic cacs and some Blacks even understood the art. And that's long after producers/rappers removed regional/stylistic references that only hip hop fans would understand.

You might think that Kanye and them 'new' nikkas are making complex beats, but in reality, they're not saying anything with their beats.

Compare that shyt to this, which as a hip hop piece, is complex as fukk:



There are like 10 different people/voices all talking about the song subject matter from different eras from different angles. Premo's beat and scratching alone is like a big conversation, mapping out the entire New York, then Rakim adds his part.

Production fell the fukk off. Beats nowadays don't say anything substantial for the most part.







so how they are up there with the best 90s producers?



That's the excuse?

How about: they're just not good enough.



Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Cats back then were really producing. Spending time with rappers. Figuring out what their world was like, crafting beats that fit their voice, personality, worldview and environment....

at anyone who thinks cats like Premo, Timbaland, Pete Rock, Havoc, Dre, etc were just making beats like these new nikkas, willy-nilly with no thought and tossing them at whoever.

Not what Im saying. The contrast Im drawing is between the talented artists of the current era (2000s-2010s) and the talented artists of the 90s. I aint even have time to write out paragraphs about trap music. The shyt speaks for itsself

 

[ThaRealness]

Hip Hop became more self aware, a lil less serious, and arguably more imaginative. Whereas 90s hip hop music was all about the documentary... 2000s hip hop can be anything from a french new wave flick to an animated arthouse flick

Again, neither is better or worse.

 

[Theabbot]

 

[mobbinfms]

aint even have time to write out paragraphs about trap music. The shyt speaks for itsself

I read this to mean you are saying its trash. Am i right?

 

[SirBiatch]

Hip Hop became more self aware, a lil less serious, and arguably more imaginative. Whereas 90s hip hop music was all about the documentary... 2000s hip hop can be anything from a french new wave flick to an animated arthouse flick

Again, neither is better or worse.

essentially, 2000s hip hop was about everything but hip hop.

I get what you're saying in a tangential way. When I first heard Madvillainy, it was like: the fukk? I thought it was wack as fukk. To this day I've never had such a 180 turn on an album. When it hit me as to how brilliant some of the tracks were, it was Like an old lady who needs to take a seat or some shyt.

This idea that hip hop was restrictive in the 80s and 90s is so played out. That's when it was its most imaginative imo. You're saying 'less serious' like that's a good thing. Hip hop is about real ass shyt. That's what makes it tick. And I'd argue that it was actually less serious in the sense that someone were gangster, some were conscious, jokers, etc while being part of the same community. In the 2000s, the community was already fragmented and each part of that community (gangster, backpack, pop) took themselves way too seriously.

 

[The Ruler 09]

I just want shyt to sound dope, I don't care how it was made really, simple or complex or easy or hard, if it's dope it's dope, if it's wack it's wack no matter how so called "artistic". That being said I can appreciate creativity and how something was done but only if it's dope, if it's wack the I can't fukk with it merely cause of how it was made ...