Remember how teachers always complained how underpaid they were?

[The Devil's Advocate]

If they worked summer school i dint think they get the same rate of pay. And summer school isnt for the whole summer.

Would you want former doctors, former college and pro coaches(motivators of men) therapists etc. teaching your kids or let your kids be the product(some posters in this thread)of low income teachers and education? (Thats a rhetorical question.) how do you attract those professionals to teach kids?

Your problem is happening in single job feild( people not holding their weight). But in education the great teachers produce scientists who cure cancer, innovate and create the technology you take for granted.

Point is good teachers are worth more than their being paid.

If you disagree, you should make it a point to send you kids to the poorest school lowest income school district.

Paying teachers more isnt just that. Its also resources. They wouldnt pay a teacher 6 figures and have your kid on a year 2000 desktop computer.

Yall really havent thought this through.

let me say again... and for the last time


i think they should get paid exactly what they get paid right now.... which is on avg.... 44k a year... working 8-9 months of the year


i can't say it anymore different... not more... not less


they want more... there's better schools, better counties, university, etc etc... just like any job field... different markets get you different perks

in a perfect world, sure give them 6 figures.... but as long as we paying taxes on it.. and nobody is willing to see their taxes double in order to see pay double.... nah... they aren't THAT impoverished that they need to be on tv crying and complaining every week

i'd much rather teach for 44k than be the slave cooking lady for 23k

 

[Cynical Thoughts]

i think they should get paid exactly what they get paid right now.... which is on avg.... 44k a year... working 8-9 months of the year

they aren't THAT impoverished that they need to be on tv crying and complaining every week

I have told you the pay is spread out so they get payed for summer months why do you keep bringing up them working 8-9 months?

this is your opinion. if your happy about your kids going to an average school getting average to below average teachers based in pay, cool. Thats on you. Not mine though.

Give your kids community college level education brehs.

Link to the bolded.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

They only work 6 hours a day

There are very, very few teachers who only work 6 hours a day. That's no helping kids after school, no grading papers, no preparing lesson plans, no getting supplies, no extraciriccular activities...when I was teaching I averaged about 55 hours/week, and keeping it down to 6 hours a day would have been literally impossible.

They only work 8-9 months a year

How the hell does that work? Our school year ended around June 20th and started again around August 30th. That's almost 10 months...I can't imagine anywhere where it would be only 8 months. And most teachers had to take classes during many of their summers because the rules for credentialing are so strict.

And I'm checking the transparentcalifornia website and these disgruntled teachers are making base salaries of $80-$90k

A minority of teachers make even close to that much.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

How do you decide what someone should be paid?


Is it supply and demand?

Okay, that's easy. Inner-city teachers, science teachers, math teachers, computer teachers, and special ed teachers are all paid far too little. There aren't nearly enough decent ones to fill the positions. A lot of positions go unfilled for months, others have to be filled by completely crap unqualified teachers, because qualified ones aren't applying.

English and History and elementary teachers in the suburbs get paid too much, though, because there are tons of applicants for every position.



Is it the value added to society?

Then teachers get paid far too little. The amount of value added to society by a good teacher is FAR above a teacher's wages. Sure, the bad ones don't add that...but isn't that why we should be paying better, so we can get more good ones? A recent study showed that if we paid kindergarten teachers based on the financial value added alone, then a good kindergarten teacher would be worth $320,000 a year.



Is it based on how hard the job is?

Then high school teachers, hood teachers, and any teacher who is trying hard to do a good job gets paid too little. Teachers who actually try to engage their students have to work HARD for 6 hours a day in the classroom, constantly attentive to 30 different people doing 90 different things at once, and then have another 2-3 hours at home of grading and prep for the next day. And that doesn't even count if they're coaching or helping kids after school or doing other extra-cirricular activities.

Yes, lower-elementary teachers in the suburbs who aren't really trying don't have to work that hard. But that doesn't reflect on the rest of teachers.



Teachers get 1-2 college degrees in order to help set the foundation for 20-150 children every day who will be the future of the community. I literally cannot think of a single job that's more important to the public welfare than having good teachers. In countries with strong education systems, the best university graduates go on to teaching careers. In America, the best graduates all go into the private sector...because the private sector has been set up to be far more appealing than teaching.

Why are non-teachers always bytching about how teaching is better than a private sector job....if nearly all the top graduates are choosing the private sector over teaching?

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

There are very, very few teachers who only work 6 hours a day. That's no helping kids after school, no grading papers, no preparing lesson plans, no getting supplies, no extraciriccular activities...when I was teaching I averaged about 55 hours/week, and keeping it down to 6 hours a day would have been literally impossible.





How the hell does that work? Our school year ended around June 20th and started again around August 30th. That's almost 10 months...I can't imagine anywhere where it would be only 8 months. And most teachers had to take classes during many of their summers because the rules for credentialing are so strict.





A minority of teachers make even close to that much.

you just said ALMOST 10 months with summer break... add in a week, 1.5, for christmas break... and another week or so for spring break

and you have about 3 months off every year.. now lets pretend you worked those 3 months... and they paid you your normal monthly salary during those extra 3 months... the avg teacher would be in the 60s easy




hopefully no one is saying we don't need teachers... or they don't do enough... or they are paid too high

that's not what i'm saying... i think people are just watching news and articles... seeing teachers strike and picket and cry foul on their pay scale


then you look up what the avg one makes and it's way above the american median... then you look at how many days they actually work and it's way below the american median

which begs the question.... what are you so damn angry about?


yes a high school teacher in compton making 25k is underpaid... but in the grand scheme of 320 million people in the US... how many are actually in THAT situation..

i mean just simple math will tell you there's a shytload of more teachers in grades k-8 than through 9-12... and there's a lot more areas in america that are NOT the hood, than are

 

[Jesus]

you just said ALMOST 10 months with summer break... add in a week, 1.5, for christmas break... and another week or so for spring break

and you have about 3 months off every year.. now lets pretend you worked those 3 months... and they paid you your normal monthly salary during those extra 3 months... the avg teacher would be in the 60s easy




hopefully no one is saying we don't need teachers... or they don't do enough... or they are paid too high

that's not what i'm saying... i think people are just watching news and articles... seeing teachers strike and picket and cry foul on their pay scale


then you look up what the avg one makes and it's way above the american median... then you look at how many days they actually work and it's way below the american median

which begs the question.... what are you so damn angry about?


yes a high school teacher in compton making 25k is underpaid... but in the grand scheme of 320 million people in the US... how many are actually in THAT situation..

i mean just simple math will tell you there's a shytload of more teachers in grades k-8 than through 9-12... and there's a lot more areas in america that are NOT the hood, than are

You're a fukking idiot.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

You're a fukking idiot.

blame my teachers

 

[bunnz17]

All through elementary school and high school, these clowns were complaining about what a lowly unappreciated industry education is and how they all struggled.

The facts:
They only work 6 hours a day
They only work 8-9 months a year
They get full pension and benefits after they retire, something very few people in the private industry will ever get

And I'm checking the transparentcalifornia website and these disgruntled teachers are making base salaries of $80-$90k Sure, they're not "rich" but if you're a teacher and your spouse has even a menial job somewhere, you're easily in the top 10%. Cops make twice as much as you'd think they do too It's no surprise the government always has budget problems.

As a teacher, I agree we get a lot of benefits that come with what we do. When I retire I will be clearing 6 figures. The part of the job that most folks do not understand is that the work we do on a daily basis is not easy at all. Just today, I had two students sleeping half of the day because they were up all night because parents don't watch them. I had a kid piss all over the floor and just stand there like it was all good. I had a student who was sick, but didn't have a temp so they stayed the rest of the day and I had to basically watch over them. Some kids arguing, crying over drama, etc....Everyday I have to teach, be a psychologist, low budget Dr, mediator, mentor, and for some the only male role model they see everyday. The time off is more than most jobs, but it is well deserved, because teachers go above and beyond each and every day. Also I cannot tell you how many teachers come into work one hour early and do not leave until 2-5 hours after the day is over. Typical work day for a teacher is at least 10 hours with grading papers, phone calls home, etc.

 

[bunnz17]

Pls show the houses the teachers have on AVERAGE...please. I'm not talking private schools or really nice neighborhoods like Greenwich connecticut. Nah i'm talking the average teacher's house

I teach at a public school and I do alright, 3br townhome for my family. Plenty of room for the kids to play and in a great neighborhood.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You're a fukking idiot.

blame my teachers

Which is sort of the point. Do you think that we're doing a good job of attracting the best quality of college graduates into the teaching profession? Of course we're not.

Look, in America we have a giant program called, "Teach for America" where absolutely unqualified people are put in charge of teaching our children in the most difficult situations. Do you realize how embarrassing that is? Can you imagine "Cops for America" where untrained graduates were just handed badges when they walked in the door, or "Engineers for America" where people straight out of their B.S. were put to work on the space program with no on-job training at all?

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

As a teacher, I agree we get a lot of benefits that come with what we do. When I retire I will be clearing 6 figures. The part of the job that most folks do not understand is that the work we do on a daily basis is not easy at all. Just today, I had two students sleeping half of the day because they were up all night because parents don't watch them. I had a kid piss all over the floor and just stand there like it was all good. I had a student who was sick, but didn't have a temp so they stayed the rest of the day and I had to basically watch over them. Some kids arguing, crying over drama, etc....Everyday I have to teach, be a psychologist, low budget Dr, mediator, mentor, and for some the only male role model they see everyday. The time off is more than most jobs, but it is well deserved, because teachers go above and beyond each and every day. Also I cannot tell you how many teachers come into work one hour early and do not leave until 2-5 hours after the day is over. Typical work day for a teacher is at least 10 hours with grading papers, phone calls home, etc.

I teach at a public school and I do alright, 3br townhome for my family. Plenty of room for the kids to play and in a great neighborhood.

respect to you breh

Which is sort of the point. Do you think that we're doing a good job of attracting the best quality of college graduates into the teaching profession? Of course we're not.

Look, in America we have a giant program called, "Teach for America" where absolutely unqualified people are put in charge of teaching our children in the most difficult situations. Do you realize how embarrassing that is? Can you imagine "Cops for America" where untrained graduates were just handed badges when they walked in the door, or "Engineers for America" where people straight out of their B.S. were put to work on the space program with no on-job training at all?

In Finland, for example, where teaching quality is incredibly good, only the top 25% of graduates are recruited into teaching. The majority of applicants are turned away from teacher education programs. Meanwhile, in America we're just accepting anyone who meets the minimum basic credentials because we're having so many problems staffing our schools. In Inglewood we were hiring people straight from the Philippines and Uganda because it was so hard to get teachers into the school.

So do you believe that the quality of people attracted into the teaching profession is strong enough, especially in the maths, sciences, computers, special ed, urban schools, and rural schools? If it's not, then the status quo isn't good enough.

I'm sure, of course, that a lower-primary or History/English teacher in a suburban school is eating just fine. But THAT, in fact, is the minority of teachers compared to all the categories I listed.

look man... in all seriousness, i'll quit messing around for a second


yes i agree teachers are one of the most important people when it comes to raising and help raising our children.. from pre-k to a ph. d we need those to come back, and show the next generation about life and social skills and actual subjects they will need in life, structure, sometimes a different shoulder to cry on, a different opinion other than just your parents, etc etc

i fully agree some teachers get a raw deal. they teach the same damn course in compton as they do in beverly hills.... yet the teachers get more, have better facilities, better materials, and better behaved and educated students

not only should THOSE teachers get more, they should also be getting equal funding to their schools. this is a major problem in poor communities and is a major reason why they never go from poor to rich or even middle class... lack of funds





all i was saying was ON AVG. teachers make a good living and have good benefits. breh right up there puts in hard work and from what he's saying... lives in a nice home and is doing ok for himself. if he had a wife, he'd be doing even better with her income

going with this thread was about.... some teachers out here making 60-90k... some of them aren't even working hard or that great teachers... some aren't even those in dire straights in life or their job

and yet we really had people in here like "yea just give them all 100k a year" like


there's other ways to go about approving school and it's structure in america than to say.... blindly give every one who teaches a class, 50-80-100k a year off top.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

there's other ways to go about approving school and it's structure in america than to say.... blindly give every one who teaches a class, 50-80-100k a year off top.

I agree with that there, and most of the rest of what you said.

The problem is, teaching well is extremely hard and extremely important, yet it doesn't have the status in this country that it deserves or needs in order to be done correctly.

And complaints in the tone of what you posed degrade the status of teachers, they don't improve it. Saying, "they get paid enough, why are thy complaining" minimizes the difficultly and importance of what they do, and lends to a tendency of "keeping them in their place". Unfortunately, in this country, teachers are in a low-status place, and that's a problem.