Rondo or Jokic: who’s the better passer?
- Thread starter Squirrel from Meteor Man
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Fortunate Lee
Superstar
LOL
Numba 9
Numba 9
steph_harden
Superstar
LOL - I literally came to post the same thing in the LeBron vs. Jokic thread and you had already done it here. 
But it's not even a joke. LBJ's skill set is legendary because he is a forward who actually passes just as well as the very best PG's. Jokic is a center who passes as well as the lower-tier PG's and can do a few unique things cause his arms are longer. Folk get extra excited and overrate it cause they're surprised to see that shyt from a big. A 7-footer who shoots like a forward and passes like a point guard is an incredible talent, but he's still not touching Bron.
But it's not even a joke. LBJ's skill set is legendary because he is a forward who actually passes just as well as the very best PG's. Jokic is a center who passes as well as the lower-tier PG's and can do a few unique things cause his arms are longer. Folk get extra excited and overrate it cause they're surprised to see that shyt from a big. A 7-footer who shoots like a forward and passes like a point guard is an incredible talent, but he's still not touching Bron.
LOL - I literally came to post the same thing in the LeBron vs. Jokic thread and you had already done it here.
But it's not even a joke. LBJ's skill set is legendary because he is a forward who actually passes just as well as the very best PG's. Jokic is a center who passes as well as the lower-tier PG's and can do a few unique things cause his arms are longer. Folk get extra excited and overrate it cause they're surprised to see that shyt from a big. A 7-footer who shoots like a forward and passes like a point guard is an incredible talent, but he's still not touching Bron.
This lmaooo and big man can pass but not like Rondo
Bigblackted4
Superstar
Maybe back in the day but now hell nah he’d be an above average passer as a point guard.LOL - I literally came to post the same thing in the LeBron vs. Jokic thread and you had already done it here.
But it's not even a joke. LBJ's skill set is legendary because he is a forward who actually passes just as well as the very best PG's. Jokic is a center who passes as well as the lower-tier PG's and can do a few unique things cause his arms are longer. Folk get extra excited and overrate it cause they're surprised to see that shyt from a big. A 7-footer who shoots like a forward and passes like a point guard is an incredible talent, but he's still not touching Bron.
Nah, most of his passes are made fairly flatfooted with the time to inspect the defense and pick his spots, and a lot of his passes aren't hitting his guys in their sweet spot.
A point guard has to be able to find his guys while moving at full speed off the dribble. Jokic can do that to a degree but not as well as the average starting PG does. And if he was really a point guard there'd be more complaints about passes that are hitting guys at their knees and such.
Bigblackted4
Superstar
You're playing straight into my argument. that pass was completely flat-footed, with time to think about it, he's guarded by a guy a FOOT shorter than him and he was passing to a guy who was wide open and standing in the same spot the entire time.
He's not moving, his target isn't moving, the defenders aren't moving, his defender is way too short to disrupt it, and his target was wide open the entire time.
Literally every PG in the NBA can throw any no-look pass they want if they had a 10" height advantage over their defender and the player they're passing to is wide open and isn't moving the entire time. The pass is special because it's got some distance and he uses those long-ass arms to do the wrap-around, but take away the height advantage and there's nothing there that would be special for any guard who can pass.
OmegaK2099
Gettin' It In
Wtf how did I wind up posting in here? 
Wtf how did I wind up posting in here?
Yo I'm a fool. Brains scrambled from the earthquake.
@Bigblackted4 , here's the comp that shows what a truly difficult pass of that nature looks like:
Notice that LeBron catches it with his back to his target and has zero hesitation, he immediately takes a dribble and then throws the pass.
Notice that LeBron has to make a move on his defender in order to create the space for the pass, he can't just use his height to go over him.
Notice that LeBron's target is GUARDED when LeBron catches the ball. He has to anticipate that he will get open and where he will get open.
Notice that both LeBron and his target are moving when LeBron throws the pass.
Notice that with all that, it's actually a longer pass than Jokic, plus it's a bounce pass at a more difficult angle, and he has to put English on the ball to get it to come back to the place he anticipates his teammate to end up.
It you're watching casually you might think they're similar passes. But passing off the dribble vs. being flat-footed, having to create the space to pass vs. having that space by default with your height, and passing to a moving, guarded target vs. a wide-open guy standing in place all make it a far more difficult pass.
I think most point guards can do those things with a greater deal of skill than Jokic can. Jokic is a very good passer when he gets to just sit and survey the court and pass over people, and only a adequate passer in other situations.
Notice that LeBron catches it with his back to his target and has zero hesitation, he immediately takes a dribble and then throws the pass.
Notice that LeBron has to make a move on his defender in order to create the space for the pass, he can't just use his height to go over him.
Notice that LeBron's target is GUARDED when LeBron catches the ball. He has to anticipate that he will get open and where he will get open.
Notice that both LeBron and his target are moving when LeBron throws the pass.
Notice that with all that, it's actually a longer pass than Jokic, plus it's a bounce pass at a more difficult angle, and he has to put English on the ball to get it to come back to the place he anticipates his teammate to end up.
It you're watching casually you might think they're similar passes. But passing off the dribble vs. being flat-footed, having to create the space to pass vs. having that space by default with your height, and passing to a moving, guarded target vs. a wide-open guy standing in place all make it a far more difficult pass.
I think most point guards can do those things with a greater deal of skill than Jokic can. Jokic is a very good passer when he gets to just sit and survey the court and pass over people, and only a adequate passer in other situations.
Rondo.
Bigblackted4
Superstar
That’s LeBron lol other dudes ain’t making them passes, Harden, Rondo, Doncic, Paul, Curry, Young, Rubio, Ben Simmons, maybe Lowry and Ball that’s it.
Jokic on the moves passes and it’s much more didn’t feel like going through all of his assist. No he’s not LeBron but most aren’t he’s better than most guards at passing though.
Video and Shotcharts
Video and Shotcharts
[URL="https://go.nba.com/blntk"]Video and Shotcharts[/URL]
Video and Shotcharts
Nah, there's way more guards who are making those passes. They don't look as special doing it because their arms aren't four feet long, but they're making the same passes or tougher ones.
You didn't mention Dame. Cause Lilliard doesn't have a reputation as a great passer, right? Not bad at all, but perhaps just average for a PG, at little bit above average maybe? No one his putting him in any top-ten passers list, that's for sure.
Here's Dame's passing highlights from his rookie year.
He's making all the same passes tha Jokic makes now. Threading bounce passes through traffic to the cutters. Casually tossing no-look passes over his shoulder. Full-court feeds, wrap-around passes, alley-oops, perfect feeds coming straight off spin moves.
Perhaps there's slightly less flair on it, because he was a rookie and less settled, and he doesn't have the long arms to make the passes look extra neat. But if you put that video side-by-side with Jokic's passes from this year, they'd be of comparable skill level. Jokic puts a bit more English on his but he also has the luxury of standing around with more time to set the pass up. He's not on another plane from Dame.
And Dame is NOT one of the top passing PG's in the league. Which means there's plenty of other guys who can pass as good or better than Jokic.