Taliban - US - Afghanistan Government Peace Talks: DEAL IN PRINCIPLE REACHED

thatrapsfan

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Duppy

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Once America is out, Iran might move their Afghani militias into Afghanistan to put pressure on Taliban without angering America too much

Liwa Fatemiyoun - Wikipedia

Longtime riders finally returning to the homeland, some of the OGs involved fought both the Soviets and Taliban before being forced out :wow:

fukkery will come in due time, sadly for the Afghani population, perpetrual war for like 50 years by now :mjcry: Multiple generations lost to war..
 

thatrapsfan

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Once America is out, Iran might move their Afghani militias into Afghanistan to put pressure on Taliban without angering America too much

Liwa Fatemiyoun - Wikipedia

Longtime riders finally returning to the homeland, some of the OGs involved fought both the Soviets and Taliban before being forced out :wow:

fukkery will come in due time, sadly for the Afghani population, perpetrual war for like 50 years by now :mjcry: Multiple generations lost to war..

Doubt they can play a major role, aside from areas where Hazaras and Shias live?

Their primarily role was to serve as cheap, easy to enlist troops for the Syrian war but given Afghanistan's demographics Im skeptical they will be a major player before the Tajiks, Uzbeks, and competing Pashtun warlords?
 

Duppy

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Doubt they can play a major role, aside from areas where Hazaras and Shias live?

Their primarily role was to serve as cheap, easy to enlist troops for the Syrian war but given Afghanistan's demographics Im skeptical they will be a major player before the Tajiks, Uzbeks, and competing Pashtun warlords?
It's like 3 million Afghanis in Iran, might be easier to convince them to fight for their home than Syria :manny:Doubt they'd take over to country but just act as some sort of check and balance to the Taliban. Iran rides for Shias pretty hard in general so I could see them doing something like this in the future. Meaningless speculation for now though
 

Techniec

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FINALLY after 18 years and me banging my head against the wall, the SAME fukkING THING they couldve done in 2002, they are doing now

I been saying on this forum for years, there needs to be a stated withdrawal of all forces, and the Talibs will come to the table. They are not trying to discuss anything unless the troops are gone.

The Constitution will be amended, some of the more "progressive" laws will be scaled back, the current govt will have to step down in favour of an interim one.

The only question is what happens post interim govt...elections? I dont know if the Taliban are willing to go that far....at the same time, they know they cant physically take the country over

Most likely we will get an Afghan Govt 2.0, in the sense that it will be a cobbled together coalition of various Afghan actors who will play nice as long as intl money rolls in

However the problem is a-that money aint flowing like it used to, and b-The Taliban are not as money hungry and corrupt as the various warlords who are content with a piece of the pie

The Taliban inherently want the whole pie, and they aint trying to sit at the table with thieves...its beneath them

There is no feasible outcome, but the status quo wont work and war is not in anyones plans now
 

Techniec

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Once America is out, Iran might move their Afghani militias into Afghanistan to put pressure on Taliban without angering America too much

Liwa Fatemiyoun - Wikipedia

Longtime riders finally returning to the homeland, some of the OGs involved fought both the Soviets and Taliban before being forced out :wow:

fukkery will come in due time, sadly for the Afghani population, perpetrual war for like 50 years by now :mjcry: Multiple generations lost to war..

The Hazaras didnt really fight the Soviets like that, they were left along in their central mountains to fight amongst each other while the North and East/South burned

Iran can summon as many fatimayoon as they want, at BEST they will secure some autonomy for themselves in their area HAZARAJAT

Fatimayoon is not stepping into any Pashtun areas, and the second they make a move on Kabul, Tajiks and Pashtuns are teaming up and smashing them

As distasteful as each other may be, they aint letting no Shia take Kabul

:heh:

Iranians better be content with Damascus, Sanaa, Beirut and Baghdad. Shias are kept in check round here
 

Techniec

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In Abu Dhabi this week, the U.S. and the Taliban engaged in some of the highest-level talks the two sides have held since the war in Afghanistan began more than 17 years ago. The effort will almost certainly prove futile, however, for two crucial reasons. The Taliban aren’t ready for peace. And the Afghan government couldn’t accommodate them even if they were.

U.S. special envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, who met with Taliban representatives on Tuesday, has speculated a deal could be reached before April 20, when Afghanistan is slated to hold presidential elections. Certainly he’s progressed further in negotiations than previous U.S. diplomats have, and the fact that Taliban sponsor Pakistan seems to be backing U.S. efforts is a heartening sign. Without Pakistani support and shelter, the insurgents would find it nearly impossible to keep fighting.

As overdue as peace talks are, though, they’re also premature. Structurally and operationally, the Taliban remain a jihadist movement. They’ve never developed a political wing akin to Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland and remain years away from doing so. Under the group’s central leader Haibatullah Akhundzada sits a shadowy, largely Pakistan-based leadership committee consisting of a couple of dozen senior mullahs and their trusted aides. Beneath this group are the various regional commanders with their respective fighters across Afghanistan, who operate with a great degree of operational autonomy.

The bulk of the movement is thus composed of militiamen who only know how to fight. Both the Taliban’s jihadist ideology, which calls for establishing their envisioned Islamic polity via military means, and the fact that all the group’s resources have been spent waging an insurgency, have prevented the Taliban from moving beyond clandestine activity and developing a public-level political capacity. They simply aren’t ready to enter the existing Afghan constitutional system, much less to operate by its rules. The required functional capabilities will take years, if not decades, to develop.

In any case, it would be difficult to mainstream the Taliban because of how weak the so-called mainstream in Afghanistan is. After nearly two decades and a trillion-plus dollars in foreign spending, the Afghan state remains a fragile polity marred by infighting. Political parties are terribly underdeveloped; factions revolve around regional personalities, rather than policies. The current administration is based on an ad hoc power-sharing arrangement between President Ashraf Ghani and CEO Abdullah Abdullah, put in place as a stopgap measure after the disputed results of 2014 presidential elections. That arrangement expired in 2016 but the two men remain in office and elections have been delayed.

Even if the Taliban somehow evolved into a political movement, its entry into this system would only exacerbate pre-existing tensions across ethnic, regional, tribal and political lines. Strongmen such as the northern Tajik leader Atta Mohammad Noor and the recently rehabilitated Pashtun warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar already lead rival Islamist parties. Add in the Taliban and this complex balancing act could collapse completely. The Afghan state simply lacks the coherence and therefore the absorptive capability to subsume the Taliban.

The truth is that the Taliban have no interest in being part of the existing state. What they’re hoping to negotiate is a path to power and legitimacy that doesn’t require any significant behavioral change.

Since its inception in 1994, the Taliban has been an armed group seeking power through insurrection. The last time it came to power in 1996 was via an intra-Islamist civil war between factions. After the fall of its regime in 2001, the Taliban launched an insurgency to force a U.S. withdrawal. Over the years, the Taliban realized that fighting their way to power again was unlikely and that 1996 was a fluke because of the anarchy that prevailed after the collapse of the previous communist regime.

The Taliban also recall how their previous regime was a global pariah, only recognized by Pakistan along with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. The insurgents don’t simply wish to return to their pre-9/11 status; they hope to be internationally recognized as a legitimate Afghan national political group and rulers of their country. That’s why the Taliban’s war -- and now, its attempts at peace -- have been geared towards forcing a negotiated settlement that allows the movement to regain power through a restructuring of the current constitutional setup.

It’s critical that the U.S. realize the limits of what can be achieved in ongoing talks, so the Taliban don’t exploit them. There’s a serious disconnect in timing between the U.S. need for a quick deal in Afghanistan – there are reports already that the U.S. could begin withdrawing troops within weeks – and the jihadists’ political evolution, which remains extremely uncertain. Washington should avoid the strategy it used to get out of Iraq, rushing a political settlement while leaving critical details to be determined later. Doing so will only work to the advantage of the Taliban, which is hoping to gain international legitimacy without having to reform significantly. Negotiations may seem hard; true peace will be harder still.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Analysis is great, Bokhari is an informed and plugged commentator, but I disagree with his conclusion precisely because, to quote his article:

The Taliban also recall how their previous regime was a global pariah, only recognized by Pakistan along with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. The insurgents don’t simply wish to return to their pre-9/11 status; they hope to be internationally recognized as a legitimate Afghan national political group and rulers of their country. That’s why the Taliban’s war -- and now, its attempts at peace -- have been geared towards forcing a negotiated settlement that allows the movement to regain power through a restructuring of the current constitutional setup.

I see nothing wrong with this at all, and in fact, a chastened Taliban, kept in check by international pressure (funds and threats to reintervene) on the jihadist front, and forced to be ethnically inclusive....is the BEST option for Afghanistan
 

thatrapsfan

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In Abu Dhabi this week, the U.S. and the Taliban engaged in some of the highest-level talks the two sides have held since the war in Afghanistan began more than 17 years ago. The effort will almost certainly prove futile, however, for two crucial reasons. The Taliban aren’t ready for peace. And the Afghan government couldn’t accommodate them even if they were.

U.S. special envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, who met with Taliban representatives on Tuesday, has speculated a deal could be reached before April 20, when Afghanistan is slated to hold presidential elections. Certainly he’s progressed further in negotiations than previous U.S. diplomats have, and the fact that Taliban sponsor Pakistan seems to be backing U.S. efforts is a heartening sign. Without Pakistani support and shelter, the insurgents would find it nearly impossible to keep fighting.

As overdue as peace talks are, though, they’re also premature. Structurally and operationally, the Taliban remain a jihadist movement. They’ve never developed a political wing akin to Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland and remain years away from doing so. Under the group’s central leader Haibatullah Akhundzada sits a shadowy, largely Pakistan-based leadership committee consisting of a couple of dozen senior mullahs and their trusted aides. Beneath this group are the various regional commanders with their respective fighters across Afghanistan, who operate with a great degree of operational autonomy.

The bulk of the movement is thus composed of militiamen who only know how to fight. Both the Taliban’s jihadist ideology, which calls for establishing their envisioned Islamic polity via military means, and the fact that all the group’s resources have been spent waging an insurgency, have prevented the Taliban from moving beyond clandestine activity and developing a public-level political capacity. They simply aren’t ready to enter the existing Afghan constitutional system, much less to operate by its rules. The required functional capabilities will take years, if not decades, to develop.

In any case, it would be difficult to mainstream the Taliban because of how weak the so-called mainstream in Afghanistan is. After nearly two decades and a trillion-plus dollars in foreign spending, the Afghan state remains a fragile polity marred by infighting. Political parties are terribly underdeveloped; factions revolve around regional personalities, rather than policies. The current administration is based on an ad hoc power-sharing arrangement between President Ashraf Ghani and CEO Abdullah Abdullah, put in place as a stopgap measure after the disputed results of 2014 presidential elections. That arrangement expired in 2016 but the two men remain in office and elections have been delayed.

Even if the Taliban somehow evolved into a political movement, its entry into this system would only exacerbate pre-existing tensions across ethnic, regional, tribal and political lines. Strongmen such as the northern Tajik leader Atta Mohammad Noor and the recently rehabilitated Pashtun warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar already lead rival Islamist parties. Add in the Taliban and this complex balancing act could collapse completely. The Afghan state simply lacks the coherence and therefore the absorptive capability to subsume the Taliban.

The truth is that the Taliban have no interest in being part of the existing state. What they’re hoping to negotiate is a path to power and legitimacy that doesn’t require any significant behavioral change.

Since its inception in 1994, the Taliban has been an armed group seeking power through insurrection. The last time it came to power in 1996 was via an intra-Islamist civil war between factions. After the fall of its regime in 2001, the Taliban launched an insurgency to force a U.S. withdrawal. Over the years, the Taliban realized that fighting their way to power again was unlikely and that 1996 was a fluke because of the anarchy that prevailed after the collapse of the previous communist regime.

The Taliban also recall how their previous regime was a global pariah, only recognized by Pakistan along with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. The insurgents don’t simply wish to return to their pre-9/11 status; they hope to be internationally recognized as a legitimate Afghan national political group and rulers of their country. That’s why the Taliban’s war -- and now, its attempts at peace -- have been geared towards forcing a negotiated settlement that allows the movement to regain power through a restructuring of the current constitutional setup.

It’s critical that the U.S. realize the limits of what can be achieved in ongoing talks, so the Taliban don’t exploit them. There’s a serious disconnect in timing between the U.S. need for a quick deal in Afghanistan – there are reports already that the U.S. could begin withdrawing troops within weeks – and the jihadists’ political evolution, which remains extremely uncertain. Washington should avoid the strategy it used to get out of Iraq, rushing a political settlement while leaving critical details to be determined later. Doing so will only work to the advantage of the Taliban, which is hoping to gain international legitimacy without having to reform significantly. Negotiations may seem hard; true peace will be harder still.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Analysis is great, Bokhari is an informed and plugged commentator, but I disagree with his conclusion precisely because, to quote his article:

The Taliban also recall how their previous regime was a global pariah, only recognized by Pakistan along with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. The insurgents don’t simply wish to return to their pre-9/11 status; they hope to be internationally recognized as a legitimate Afghan national political group and rulers of their country. That’s why the Taliban’s war -- and now, its attempts at peace -- have been geared towards forcing a negotiated settlement that allows the movement to regain power through a restructuring of the current constitutional setup.

I see nothing wrong with this at all, and in fact, a chastened Taliban, kept in check by international pressure (funds and threats to reintervene) on the jihadist front, and forced to be ethnically inclusive....is the BEST option for Afghanistan

Great column.I actually met him before, youre right hes a sharp guy. What do you make of his argument that the Taliban arent ready for politics and dont have capacity to engage in the official political setup?
 

Duppy

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The Hazaras didnt really fight the Soviets like that, they were left along in their central mountains to fight amongst each other while the North and East/South burned

Iran can summon as many fatimayoon as they want, at BEST they will secure some autonomy for themselves in their area HAZARAJAT

Fatimayoon is not stepping into any Pashtun areas, and the second they make a move on Kabul, Tajiks and Pashtuns are teaming up and smashing them

As distasteful as each other may be, they aint letting no Shia take Kabul

:heh:

Iranians better be content with Damascus, Sanaa, Beirut and Baghdad. Shias are kept in check round here
I don't think they'd take Kabul but perhaps carve an area out so the Afghanis in Iran can return and be their own problem so to speak

Either way Soleimani's creeping :mjlit:

Say whatever you want about Iran but he's a man of action and quite capable to top it off, the only living martyr of the Islamic Revolution :wow:
 

Techniec

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Great column.I actually met him before, youre right hes a sharp guy. What do you make of his argument that the Taliban arent ready for politics and dont have capacity to engage in the official political setup?

I agree, hence why I felt the big question mark is what happens post-interim govt

The Taliban are not going to be content with being handed a couple of ministries and maybe a handful of provinces to run...theyre not ideologically able to accept that...but the Afghan govt can simply offer a seat at the already large table

Taliban looking at em like "YOU sitting at OUR table"

:ufdup:
 

Techniec

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I don't think they'd take Kabul but perhaps carve an area out so the Afghanis in Iran can return and be their own problem so to speak

Either way Soleimani's creeping :mjlit:

Say whatever you want about Iran but he's a man of action and quite capable to top it off, the only living martyr of the Islamic Revolution :wow:

I dont doubt their capabilities....

Iranians have a lot of influence in Herat...3rd largest city in Afghanistan...truthfully they may be able to stake out a chunk of the west and central Afghanistan...but most if not all Fatimayoon are Hazaras, and I dont think Heratis would accept Iranian led Hazaras calling shots there
 

88m3

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On the bright side if the Taliban were given a freer hand they can refocus their energy on destabilizing Pakistan

:troll:
 
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