The 1860 U.S. Census

[get these nets]

Below is the complete census
1860 Census: Population of the United States

The Dawes Rolls were used in past years when the Cherokee Nation was determining and settling disputes about membership. I believe that the last U.S. census before slavery was abolished will be used to help determine possible reparations. Lists, whites,free Blacks, and enslaved Blacks

I think that descendants of Americans who were free in 1860 may somehow be blocked.


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Put this up as a discussion of history.

 

[xoxodede]

Below is the complete census
1860 Census: Population of the United States

The Dawes Rolls were used in past years when the Cherokee Nation was determining and settling disputes about membership. I believe that the last U.S. census before slavery was abolished will be used to help determine possible reparations. Lists, whites,free Blacks, and enslaved Blacks

I think that descendants of Americans who were free in 1860 may somehow be blocked.


================================================
Put this up as a discussion of history.

Are you saying those ADOS who were free before 1860 will not be eligible? I doubt it.

Possibly some, but not most.

Free papers, free people of census --- and they were charged a fee to be Black and "free" in most confederate states. It's all documented.

Many here: Race and Slavery Petitions Project

It's not that hard. Maybe some who lived as White -- or FPOC or -- who were freed before/right after the Revolutionary war. But, a lot of them went to Liberia.

Anyway - that's why its important to do your tree.

In 1860 almost 4 Million of our ancestors were enslaved. Less than 500K were free -- and that included those who were FPOC (mixed -- and didn't claim Black) and Free NEGROS of color -- those who were freed and clearly and repped black.

 

[get these nets]

Are you saying those ADOS who were free before 1860 will not be eligible? I doubt it.

Possibly some, but not most.

Free papers, free people of census --- and they were charged a fee to be Black and "free" in most confederate states. It's all documented.

Many here: Race and Slavery Petitions Project

It's not that hard. Maybe some who lived as White -- or FPOC or -- who were freed before/right after the Revolutionary war. But, a lot of them went to Liberia.

Anyway - that's why its important to do your tree.

In 1860 almost 4 Million of our ancestors were enslaved. Less than 500K were free -- and that included those who were FPOC (mixed -- and didn't claim Black) and Free NEGROS of color -- those who were freed and clearly and repped black.

Thanks for info. The full census paperwork has breakdown by state and I was surprised to see that Free men were even counted as either Black or mixed race. I was surprised to see that because I didn't think that distinction was made under any circumstances in U.S. documents. I was doing research about Louisiana and expected to see those columns for that state, but was surprised to see it as columns on federal census

So you think the legal formation of the U.S. as a country is the line of demarcation, and not 1860 (1863) or (1865)?
So the 1790 census?

I've read some of the wording of past reparations / atrocity settlements, and the pattern I'm seeing is that the victims are identified and counted.The compensation is based on that number, to be granted to proven descendants of those people. I can imagine at some stage that there will be attempts to disqualify FPOC.

 

[xoxodede]

Thanks for info. The full census paperwork has breakdown by state and I was surprised to see that Free men were even counted as either Black or mixed race. I was surprised to see that because I didn't think that distinction was made under any circumstances in U.S. documents. I was doing research about Louisiana and expected to see those columns for that state, but was surprised to see it as columns on federal census

So you think the legal formation of the U.S. as a country is the line of demarcation, and not 1860 (1863) or (1865)?
So the 1790 census?

I've read some of the wording of past reparations / atrocity settlements, and the pattern I'm seeing is that the victims are identified and counted.The compensation is based on that number, to be granted to proven descendants of those people. I can imagine at some stage that there will be attempts to disqualify FPOC.

I don't know. I think 1860 would be cool. But, the government knows who are ADOS and who's not. It's easily traceable.

For those who ancestors were freed or FPOC they should have to be able to show their free papers - or the census that shows their ancestors were freed. They will be able to find out why and how they were freed. Either they paid for their freedom, worked it off, manumission, or escaped.

Some FPOC need to be disqualified -- especially those who were enslavers. That's not hard to find either.

 

[Samori Toure]

Thanks for info. The full census paperwork has breakdown by state and I was surprised to see that Free men were even counted as either Black or mixed race. I was surprised to see that because I didn't think that distinction was made under any circumstances in U.S. documents. I was doing research about Louisiana and expected to see those columns for that state, but was surprised to see it as columns on federal census

So you think the legal formation of the U.S. as a country is the line of demarcation, and not 1860 (1863) or (1865)?
So the 1790 census?

I've read some of the wording of past reparations / atrocity settlements, and the pattern I'm seeing is that the victims are identified and counted.The compensation is based on that number, to be granted to proven descendants of those people. I can imagine at some stage that there will be attempts to disqualify FPOC.

The line of demarcation would have to be the formation of the Country, because even the people that were later freed; had to buy their freedom. Another thing that needs to be said is that slavery is only one marker. The other marker has to be the "Jim Crow" era, because during that period of time African Africans were deprived of rights that had been awarded to them by the Constitution and it's amendments. During the Jim Crow era African Americans were literally deprived of their life, liberty and the right to pursue happiness.

 

[xoxodede]

The line of demarcation would have to be the formation of the Country, because even the people that were later freed; had to buy their freedom. Another thing that needs to be said is that slavery is only one marker. The other marker has to be the "Jim Crow" era, because during that period of time African Africans were deprived of rights that had been awarded to them by the Constitution and it's amendments. During the Jim Crow era African Americans were literally deprived of their life, liberty and the right to pursue happiness.

Agreed. Reconstruction REALLY needs to be examined and made sure to be really added to all conversations.

That is when Convict Leasing was high. I have over 5 relatives on my family tree - men and women who were sent to these prisons for 1-4 years --and I didn't see a cause listed.

Also share-cropping contracts -- which were all rigged -- basically working for nothing. Not even enough food - or a bathroom.

 

[get these nets]

The line of demarcation would have to be the formation of the Country, because even the people that were later freed; had to buy their freedom. Another thing that needs to be said is that slavery is only one marker. The other marker has to be the "Jim Crow" era, because during that period of time African Africans were deprived of rights that had been awarded to them by the Constitution and it's amendments. During the Jim Crow era African Americans were literally deprived of their life, liberty and the right to pursue happiness.

Some Africans were manumitted when the slaver was alive or as a condition of is will. I think post Nat Turner rebellion that some of the slave codes put into law made it more difficult or impossible for the enslaved to purchase their own freedom.
Gonna check that out about which % purchased freedom.

I think slavery would be the only legitimate marker.(the 13th Amendment) I think you move away from what the stated goal of some of the proponents are once you go past 1865.

 

[get these nets]

Agreed. Reconstruction REALLY needs to be examined and made sure to be really added to all conversations.

That is when Convict Leasing was high. I have over 5 relatives on my family tree - men and women who were sent to these prisons for 1-4 years --and I didn't see a cause listed.

Also share-cropping contracts -- which were all rigged -- basically working for nothing. Not even enough food - or a bathroom.

You don't think discussion of post Reconstruction era would dilute the intent of the claim for reparations?

Most of my sandbox buddies had families from SC, and AL. Their parents used to repeat their parents' & grands' stories about the conditions and climate down there in the rural south. They told stories worse than anything I've read or seen about that era. I say that to say that nobody would doubt the horrors or the lack of legal recourse African Americans had in jim crow era, but it becomes a grey area because the influx of foreign Blacks begins a little after Reconstruction ends.

 

[xoxodede]

You don't think discussion of post Reconstruction era would dilute the intent of the claim for reparations?

Most of my sandbox buddies had families from SC, and AL. Their parents used to repeat their parents' & grands' stories about the conditions and climate down there in the rural south. They told stories worse than anything I've read or seen about that era. I say that to say that nobody would doubt the horrors or the lack of legal recourse African Americans had in jim crow era, but it becomes a grey area because the influx of foreign Blacks begins a little after Reconstruction ends.

Dilute? NO. Reconstruction was HELL. The beginning of Jim Crow.

 

[Samori Toure]

Some Africans were manumitted when the slaver was alive or as a condition of is will. I think post Nat Turner rebellion that some of the slave codes put into law made it more difficult or impossible for the enslaved to purchase their own freedom.
Gonna check that out about which % purchased freedom.

I think slavery would be the only legitimate marker.(the 13th Amendment) I think you move away from what the stated goal of some of the proponents are once you go past 1865.

Even if they received freedom in many cases they could not live the States were they were freed, because the slaveholders feared that they were a bad influence for the slaves. Additionally, many people that had fled to freedom were kidnapped and reenslaved. That was very common for Black people that lived in the North during slavery.

Finally, whether enslaved or freed they all were subjected to Jim Crow laws, which was second class citizenship. Not only were their lands and property seized for no reason at all, but their rights to vote were stripped and they were subjected to lynchings; all under the guise of the law. Another thing that needs to be stated is that sharecropping was a staple of Jim Crow, but it was nothing more than slavery; because the sharecroppers in many instances were not paid and they were not allowed to leave the land that they were forced to work on. Black people, especially sharecropping families would have to escape in the middle of the night if they wanted to go North. Local Sheriffs were notorious for locking up Black people that they thought were going to leave their counties to head North.

 

[xoxodede]

Even if they received freedom in many cases they could not live the States were they were freed, because the slaveholders feared that they were a bad influence for the slaves. Additionally, many people that had fled to freedom were kidnapped and reenslaved. That was very common for Black people that lived in the North during slavery.

Finally, whether enslaved or freed they all were subjected to Jim Crow laws, which was second class citizenship. Not only were their lands and property seized for no reason at all, but their rights to vote were stripped and they were subjected to lynchings; all under the guise of the law. Another thing that needs to be stated is that sharecropping was a staple of Jim Crow, but it was nothing more than slavery; because the sharecroppers in many instances were not paid and they were not allowed to leave the land that they were forced to work on. Black people, especially sharecropping families would have to escape in the middle of the night if they wanted to go North. Local Sheriffs were notorious for locking up Black people that they thought were going to leave their counties to head North.

Excellent comment!

@Get These Nets -- you should definitely listen to/or read The Warmth of Other Suns - you will hear the horror stories of Black families in the South terrorized trying to leave the south and get out of their fukked up sharecropping contracts. Many were killed.



In addition, Slavery By Another Name -- they both are a must. To understand our claim.

But, seriously spend some times learning about Reconstruction. It was demonic.

 

[get these nets]

Dilute? NO. Reconstruction was HELL. The beginning of Jim Crow.

I'm not down playing any of the horrors of Reconstruction or jim crow.
There's a thread you have up in the other section with Q&A of one of the think tank men behind the acronym, ADOS.
I was disgusted to read the question with the guy with his hand out asking if he could qualify for reparations,don't remember which country he was from... and I couldn't finish reading the thread.

What I'm saying in this thread is that, in the interest of keeping the focus and the compensation directed at the ACTUAL children of enslaved ancestors that the abolishing of slavery.......1860-1865 sounds like the right line to use.

I've read "Warmth" and other accounts of the Great Migration, sharecropping, whites fining and jailing recruiters that went down south to get workers for Northern industries, putting cops at train stations so Blacks couldn't leave ,etc,etc,

 

[get these nets]

Slavery by Another name was made into a documentary that aired on pbs(I think). I have that saved on dvd.

 

[Samori Toure]

Excellent comment!

@Get These Nets -- you should definitely listen to/or read The Warmth of Other Suns - you will hear the horror stories of Black families in the South terrorized trying to leave the south and get out of their fukked up sharecropping contracts. Many were killed.



In addition, Slavery By Another Name -- they both are a must. To understand our claim.

But, seriously spend some times learning about Reconstruction. It was demonic.

This is why reparations can not be limited to slavery. Reparations has to include the Jim Crow era. That was literally another 100 years of bullshyt (after slavery ended) that African Americans had to endure that no other group, other than Native Americans, had to endure.

Forget the separate but equal and segregation crap, redlining, biased laws, false imprisonment, etc. There are literally still millions and millions of living victims of Jim Crow laws. They should be compensated the same way that the Japanese were compensated.

 

[get these nets]

Spoiler

full video