The American socialist worldview is just totally broken

Pressure

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What a weird take. First off, no one has advocated "surrendering", so chalk that up as more evidence that you don't feel you can defend your position without misrepresenting the other. But yes, pretty much any option that avoided war with the USA would have been TREMENDOUSLY more beneficial for Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Did you not see what happened to those countries? Decimated by the USA bombing, descending into civil war, adding strength to some of the most bloodthirsty terrorist and extremist groups we've ever seen....yeah, war completely fukked them.

Of course, "war" and "surrender" are not the only two options. But warmongers are always disingenuous on that front.





That makes zero sense and is pure bullshyt. I have never, ever been pro-imperialist, not have I ever seen pro-imperialism as a position of "the left". And a country can be perfectly justified in wanting to defend itself via traditional military warfare and also end up strategically lost and create vastly more suffering for its people in the process.





Now you've gone full 1984 with the doublespeak. YOU dumbasses are the ones happy to indefinitely sacrifice the Ukrainian populace with no end game in sight.

And your claim that I pushed the idea "borders don't matter" directly contradicts my clear statement from yesterday that borders absolutely matter. So either you're falsely misrepresenting me out of ignorance, or you're just a liar. Either way you look like a piece of shyt.

In this thread I have asked all three of you at least 10 times what your endgame is beyond indefinite war. And I am still waiting for the answer.
Nah. You've attempted to frame everyone as being disingenuous for merely framing this is as Russian Imperialism.

We wouldn't be here if Russia didn't arbitrarily decided to invade Ukraine.

The idea that defending your own sovereignty is a bad decision because it will lead to losses is the weakest argument I've ever seen.

You're a smart guy, but you're a weak man.
 

Dave24

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yes, world war II was clearly the optimal historical outcome.

the holocaust, nuclear warfare, all of which could have been avoided by not acquiesing to the demands of a fascist lunatic in the 1930s -- what a resounding success.

the unspoken issue is that many if not all governments, from UK to US etc., all tacitly supported the fascist experiment (and continue to do so) because the fascists consolidate totalitarian power within the hands of the government themselves. So you see many western nations hesitant to criticize Putin for the last 20 years because he's doing exactly what they want to do in the future, so they can't criticize them without undermining their own globalist, neo-imperialist positions.

It's a cliche, but all these world leaders have to be sociopathic narcissists to even want those jobs in the first place.
@YaThreadFloppedB! Does that make me a sociopath narcissist considering what I want to achieve?
 

Sukairain

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Higher Learning's darling Zelensky addressed the African Union yesterday.

Four states out of 55 members showed up to the Zoom call :mjlol: utter humiliation for Ukraine and its western backers.

I suppose all those African countries are bRoKeN sOcIaLisTs too :russ:

Face the facts, only shills for the western world order care about this war. Nobody else does. Because everybody outside of the western propaganda bubble sees it for what it is: an imperialist war between the imperialists of America and NATO with their Ukrainian water-carriers on one side, against the imperialist Putin on the other side.

There is no moral victor or moral high ground or morally correct side here. Both of them are the epitome of evil. Why should anybody side with either of them?
 

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Nah. You've attempted to frame everyone as being disingenuous for merely framing this is as Russian Imperialism.

That is a lie. EVERYONE here is framing this as Russian imperialism. What is disingenuous is your suggestion that anyone isn't.




We wouldn't be here if Russia didn't arbitrarily decided to invade Ukraine.

And? No one has disputed that. You keep repeating your mantra because you can't make a case on the actual issues at stake.





You're a smart guy, but you're a weak man.

Like I said, nothing but lies and ad hominems. First you started with the lies, now you turn to the ad hominem. It is the ONLY way you know how to argue.
 

mastermind

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@Rhakim @mastermind and others have showered themselves in the idea that borders don't matter, sovereignty is negotiable, and Ukrainians should be willing to sacrifice a specific number of their populace because Russia might stop their immoral imperialist war if Ukrainians surrender.
You should at least cite this. You tend to quote posts that are reaches or complete misinterpretations to make your shyt takes of people.
 

Pressure

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You should at least cite this. You tend to quote posts that are reaches or complete misinterpretations to make your shyt takes of people.
I've yet to see you speak out against Russian aggression with the same fervor you do with American military adventurism.

For both of you, your main criticism has been about the west. While framing your critiques of the Ukraine from a perspective that doesn't place the pr9mary focus on Russia, the bad actor.

And no I ain't quoting your old ass. We've spoken enough for me and everyone else to know your position.
 

Pressure

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That is a lie. EVERYONE here is framing this as Russian imperialism. What is disingenuous is your suggestion that anyone isn't.
This is literally the the crux of OP. Everyone should acquiesce to Russia to make things better for people because war is bad. :heh:

And? No one has disputed that. You keep repeating your mantra because you can't make a case on the actual issues at stake.
I accept your firdt post of less than 500 words as admitting you have no retort to the crux of the issue.
Like I said, nothing but lies and ad hominems. First you started with the lies, now you turn to the ad hominem. It is the ONLY way you know how to argue.
ironic coming from the guy who wants flags on his message board account for getting folks banned. You're a clown.
 

mastermind

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I've yet to see you speak out against Russian aggression with the same fervor you do with American military adventurism.
I've been critical of Russia's actions. I know you searched for it and were disappointed. I checked out of that thread because people in there were excited to see Call of Duty in real life.

For both of you, your main criticism has been about the west.
The west rules the world and we are seeing it happening with the Ukraine where they are excited to get the MIC going again.
 

GPBear

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Higher Learning's darling Zelensky addressed the African Union yesterday.

Four states out of 55 members showed up to the Zoom call :mjlol: utter humiliation for Ukraine and its western backers.

I suppose all those African countries are bRoKeN sOcIaLisTs too :russ:

Face the facts, only shills for the western world order care about this war. Nobody else does. Because everybody outside of the western propaganda bubble sees it for what it is: an imperialist war between the imperialists of America and NATO with their Ukrainian water-carriers on one side, against the imperialist Putin on the other side.

There is no moral victor or moral high ground or morally correct side here. Both of them are the epitome of evil. Why should anybody side with either of them?
Root for Vladimir Putin, brehs :scust:
 
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