The American socialist worldview is just totally broken

[Rhakim]

You're still "The Dankster" to me

Ah, look, another ad hominem. I've always been the exact same high-rep, well-respected poster on here, so wtf does my sn have to do with anything?

For both of you, your main criticism has been about the west.

Complete and utter lie. I have 10x as many posts attacking Russia regarding this conflict as I do attacking the West. In fact, outside of this specific argument I've barely criticized the West at all in terms of the Ukrainian war.

While framing your critiques of the Ukraine from a perspective that doesn't place the pr9mary focus on Russia, the bad actor.

Lie. In fact I've barely had any critiques of Ukraine at all and I have MASSIVE critiques of Russia.

And no I ain't quoting your old ass. We've spoken enough for me and everyone else to know your position.

This at least is true. Which means outside of a few disingenuous liars mad at me, everyone knows you've showed your ass.

This is literally the the crux of OP. Everyone should acquiesce to Russia to make things better for people because war is bad.

Except that's a lie that assumes "war" and "acquiesce" are the only two options.

Do you believe diplomacy is a part of statesmanship or no? Or is every diplomatic compromise simply "acquiescing" to the other side? Do you think there's any such thing as diplomacy outside of the threat and/or use of overwhelming military force?

I accept your firdt post of less than 500 words as admitting you have no retort to the crux of the issue.

Oh look, he's lying again.

ironic coming from the guy who wants flags on his message board account for getting folks banned. You're a clown.

Now we're back to the ad hominem. WTF does that even mean? I'm happy to get right-wing agents who are lying about their backgrounds banned from the forum. How is that relevant?

This is you saying we should try appeasement again.

If you think appeasement and forever war are the only two options, then this would make sense. Otherwise you're a liar.



Lie. Ad hominem. Lie. Ad hominem.


That's your only pattern. It's like the very idea of putting together a strong, reasoned post supporting your own viewpoint on an issue with a strong series of fact is just totally beyond you, so lying and attacking the character of the other person is your only resort.


I've asked you and 88m3 the same question 10x already in this discussion. Tell me how you see this playing out. What is the endgame you predict? How will things ideally resolve? Can you answer that simple question, tell us what your OWN position is, without lying or attacking me? Just try it - describe what you think will transpire in as much detail as possible, with reasonable evidence for why you're right.

 

[88m3]

https://twitter.com/abduhothifi

I think you mentioned Yemen yesterday so wanted to make you aware of this @Rhakim

 

[88m3]

Btw the US didn't invade Libya

 

[Rhakim]

https://twitter.com/abduhothifi

I think you mentioned Yemen yesterday so wanted to make you aware of this @Rhakim

fukking horrific shyt like that happens during war, I'm glad we're both aware. Hopefully if all goes well the Saudis will successfully blow them up before they can become child soldiers, amiright?

The very fact that you thought this helps the pro-Saudi case is mind-blowing. This isn't sports where you pick a side based on who your daddy is rooting for. This is real life and death where people are suffering.

Btw the US didn't invade Libya

Sorry, it was "NATO's special military action under US command to replace the Libyan government with one more to our liking." I hope I got all the right words that time.

 

[88m3]

fukking horrific shyt like that happens during war, I'm glad we're both aware. Hopefully if all goes well the Saudis will successfully blow them up before they can become child soldiers, amiright?

The very fact that you thought this helps the pro-Saudi case is mind-blowing. This isn't sports where you pick a side based on who your daddy is rooting for. This is real life and death where people are suffering.








Sorry, it was "NATO's special military action under US command to replace the Libyan government with one more to our liking." I hope I got all the right words that time.

The children are dead. Those are their obituary cards. I guess you didn't look very long.

In case it wasn't very clear previously I don't care for any of thoe countries that you ticked off that the US government supports.


Excuse me?

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rhakim]

The children are dead. Those are their obituary cards. I guess you didn't look very long.

In case it wasn't very clear previously I don't care for any of thoe countries that you ticked off that the US government supports.


Excuse me?

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Since nothing you said disproves anything I said, I'm at a loss for what work this comment was supposed to do. Wanna try harder, or are you afraid that being specific will get you caught in a falsehood? (The same way you refuse to be specific as to the endgame regarding Ukraine.)

 

[88m3]

Since nothing you said disproves anything I said, I'm at a loss for what work this comment was supposed to do. Wanna try harder, or are you afraid that being specific will get you caught in a falsehood? (The same way you refuse to be specific as to the endgame regarding Ukraine.)

The US didn't invade Libya.


Ukraine

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rhakim]

The US didn't invade Libya.

The USA led a special military action by NATO in order to get regime change, thus plunging the country into chaos that it is yet to escape from. I'm still waiting to hear what your actual point is, are cruise missiles and bombings morally superior to boots on the ground?

Ukraine

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And? Once again I'm perplexed to as what point you're making. Can you quote the specific thing I said which you think this link somehow rebuts? Please quote me, specifically, you claim that I've criticized the west nonstop regarding Ukraine so there should be plenty of material for you to work with.

 

[88m3]

The USA led a special military action by NATO in order to get regime change, thus plunging the country into chaos that it is yet to escape from. I'm still waiting to hear what your actual point is, are cruise missiles and bombings morally superior to boots on the ground?







And? Once again I'm perplexed to as what point you're making. Can you quote the specific thing I said which you think this link somehow rebuts? Please quote me, specifically, you claim that I've criticized the west nonstop regarding Ukraine so there should be plenty of material for you to work with.

The UN approved it and the Civil War had already started



I want Ukraine's sovereignty and borders respected.

The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations."

 

[Rhakim]

The UN approved it and the Civil War had already started

Wars in Vietnam and Cambodia had "already started" when we decided to take the lead in killing people as well. Turned out great.

I want Ukraine's sovereignty and borders respected.

I do as well. Sadly we didn't get what we wanted.

The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations."

And how is that relevant to our disagreement?

 

[88m3]

I do as well. Sadly we didn't get what we wanted.






And how is that relevant to our disagreement?

So your solution is letting the Stalin years and Holodomor play out again 2022?


That's a tough sell

 

[Rhakim]

So your solution is letting the Stalin years and Holodomor play out again 2022?


That's a tough sell

Oh look, you're lying again. Is an ad hominem coming next, or are you gonna just double up on lies to keep me off-balance?

Now, answer the question. What is your endgame? When you talk about me you just make shyt up, but we'll assume you can be truthful and knowledgeable when talking about yourself. So when and how do you think this will get resolved? Use as much detail as you can, I promise to read it so long as it's your own words.

 

[88m3]

Oh look, you're lying again. Is an ad hominem coming next, or are you gonna just double up on lies to keep me off-balance?

Now, answer the question. What is your endgame? When you talk about me you just make shyt up, but we'll assume you can be truthful and knowledgeable when talking about yourself. So when and how do you think this will get resolved? Use as much detail as you can, I promise to read it so long as it's your own words.

I've repeatedly answered your question and you've said that's not how the cookie crumbles.


What's your solution since you feel I'm painting you in an unflattering light?


All I'm getting right now off you is a they deserved it vibe. I know you're not naive enough to believe the executions and rapes will end. Help me understand.

 

[Rhakim]

I've repeatedly answered your question and you've said that's not how the cookie crumbles.

No you haven't.

He's dodged the question so long he's now going to ambiguously pretend he answered it as the new dodge.

Write it out, right here. What's the endgame where this resolves without diplomacy?

What's your solution since you feel I'm painting you in an unflattering light?

Total sanctions against Russia and, if it becomes necessary, potentially sanction those continuing to deal with Russia. Complete Ukrainian non-cooperation with any attempt at Russia rule within their borders. Massive international effort to provide humanitarian aid within Ukraine to all who desire it or, where that is not possible, to protect refugees outside of Ukraine's borders. All while seeking a diplomatic solution to end the crisis.

Nothing is perfect - any strategy can fail. But resistance such as I have described has tended to be more effective at stopping a violent oppressor while also keeping far more of the populace alive in the meantime.

Why nonviolent resistance beats violent force in effecting social, political change

Harvard Professor Erica Chenoweth discovers nonviolent civil resistance is far more successful in effecting change than violent campaigns.

news.harvard.edu

All I'm getting right now off you is a they deserved it vibe.

You. Are. A. fukking. Liar. I have NEVER said anything remotely like that at all.

 

[88m3]