-The DEATH Of The "SUPER PRODUCER"... How To Go Broke In The Music Industry 101-

Ninjaz In Paris

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There have been some good threads the last week or so that have been in my opinion very good ones as they are based on the realities of the business. 1 was about how artists who just aren't poppin' anymore even make money...

I saw someone mention in the "JT 750k+ Selling" thread about how is it possible that someone like Pharrell can be broke...

Let me explain it...

We are in a very different time of the Music Industry... the mystique of this business has been dead for a long time & most of that is due to information being so accessible. Here's how you can go years with multiple Billboard hits & still go broke...

15 years ago... there was no Fruity Loops... there was no Reason... you couldn't just download Logic & start producing. If you wanted to be a producer you needed the real tools... a decent studio... an MPC or Sequencer... quality microphone... & a Triton/Motif/Fantom. In order to have these "Industry Standard" tools you need $$$$$$$... or be cool with someone with these tools who believed in you. So the exclusivity of having the tools was there. Nowadays anyone can download some VST's & FL Studio & start making beats... *ANYONE*... being a Rapper, Singer, Artist, Writer or Producer has lost its merit & the game is over-saturated with half talented & half lazy people & it's blurred the line a LOT...

15 years ago... there was only 1 Timbaland... only 1 Neptunes... only 1 Dr. Dre... & they all had their own "Secrets"... secrets that are published all over the internet on every Producer forum available to all NOW. The great thing to these people about the Music Industry 15 years ago is it was looked down upon to be a copycat. No label or publisher would sign you if your beats sounded too much like The Neptunes or Dr. Dre because they already have them on their Payroll.

This was also at a time where a lot of old heads from the 70's & 80's "refused" to make commercial music so you had cats like Timbaland & The Neptunes doing it & they just had the EAR for radio... a lot of cats lack an EAR... for whatever music they may like. So everything The Neptunes/Timbaland touched would go Top 40 on Billboard so they could NAME THEIR PRICE & labels had NO CHOICE but to pay it.

If your The Neptunes & you're getting $75k-$150k a BEAT... for several years straight... you don't see the money ending anytime soon because you're getting those offers 4-5 times a year & grossing in the hundreds of thousands off of the royalties. Those days were nice for them... but the problem is a lot of cats never re-adjust their lifestyle once those checks start getting smaller & smaller. Of course someone like Pharrell can afford a $50k a month lifestyle & $30k a month mortgage & bills when you're grossing $150k a month but it only takes 2 bad years in the game to have that shyt come crashing down & a lot of Artists/Rappers/Writers/Producers never adjust in time.

And a very dirty practice a lot of labels use is this... they won't come after you while you're hot... they just won't. You could go years in the GREEN making hundreds of thousands or millions in the limelight because you are making your label much more $$$ but as soon as you stop grossing for the label they come after you & show you the fine print in your contracts & collect what you "owe" them despite how much you've already grossed for them... paperwork is paperwork...

So if you're grossing about $2,000,000 a year but spending $1.5 Mil of it a year because you think these Multi-Million years will come forever then when those turn into Multi-Hundred thousand years but you're still LIVING A $2 Mil A YEAR LIFESTYLE... you go broke... and so many of your favorite artists & producers do it... same thing with NFL & NBA Players... the average goes broke within' 5 years because once the checks stop their spending doesn't & bills don't...

It's 15 years later... hypothetically... & every cat with an HP Laptop that has a pirated copy of FL & a Midi Keyboard is a "Producer" submitting beats by the bulk to A&R's & now you have cats who can mimic The Neptunes/Timbaland/Dr. Dre's style so why would a label go to the originals & pay $100k for a beat when you have thirsty cats who can mimic them & gross half of what they can for $5k? It's business before anything. Anyone can download a Timbaland Drum kit & start making their own knockoff beats... ANYONE... the game has changed... the clones are here & they are DIRT CHEAP...

Not to mention this... The Neptunes have not had a Top 40 hit record since about 2007. To put it in perspective... the average Top 40 Hit can gross around $100,000 - $350,000 dollars... you still have to pay out the artist, the writers & the producer. The average Top 10 hit grosses over a Millions Dollars but you still have to split it. The Neptunes haven't had a Top 10 Hit since about 2007 unless I'm forgetting something. I don't mean a song they play on radio a few times... I mean a legit Top 10 Billboard Hit... since 2007... that's 6 years with no real check... so that means in the last 6 years those bills of $30k+ a month that eventually leads to being broke & downsizing horribly...

And I know for a fact that since 2009 they've only been getting MAYBE $10k a track... why? They're The Neptunes right? Well... this is a business & you have cats like Da Internz, Hit-Boy, Pop & Oak, etc whose songs ARE charting on Billboard & they're only charging $15k a track so why would anyone pay someone like The Neptunes their quote if they're not grossing any money?

And let me dead the whole "cats still getting royalty checks" Myth... what checks? When was the last time you heard "Frontin" or "Like I Love You" on radio? Even if some random radio stations play that shyt 5 times a year those checks MIGHT be $100... that's not enough to fill up the Bentley...

Most of these cats signed terrible deals in the 90's & early 2000's before a lot of information of bad deals was available via the internet so nowadays shytty deals aren't as bad as they used to be. You think Timbaland works still because of his love for music? That nikka has one of the WORST contracts in history... Barry Hankerson owns him for LIFE... if he stops working for a year he could be broke within' 2. Dr. Dre makes no money off of music anymore because his sound used to be special & now anyone can mimic him so he doesn't want to blow his mystique by putting out a mediocre Detox.

I have friends... a LOT of friends who have success in the game but the second they decide to quit the labels will come for their money. It's easy for your favorite artist to front on TV with the whips & chains & nice cribs WHILE THEY'RE HOT but let them have 2 bad years... the labels are coming for their money... they're not going to hurt the artists perception WHILE THEY'RE HOT... but when the sales stop they come for all of that shyt *IF* it's owed...

Don't get it twisted... their are some very smart cats who are smart enough to take this music industry money & flip it into other businesses but a lot of cats aren't that smart. You think Lil' Wayne wants to keep pumping out album & mixtape after mixtape? He's Baby's highest grosser... he won't let him just stop working because he makes him too much money. You can't just "quit" working for a drug dealer if you're his highest grosser pusher... he won't let you... call it extortion... it happens & is happening to your favorite artists... that's why they're heavy on drugs a lot... because you can't just "quit" sometimes... theirs even pop artists with "drug money" behind them...

Everything stated in this thread are EXAMPLES... just to put things in perspective. I always tell people don't judge how much money an artist or producer or writer has until 5 years after their last Billboard Hit...

Someone said it best a long time ago... the Music Industry is like a friend who gives you an Umbrella when it's sunshine & takes it away when it starts to rain...
 
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oh..

swag.gif
 

kingdizzy01

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truth. this is why i stopped producing and making beats. i been makin beats since 97, the shyt hit the fan in like 2003-04 when everyone suddenly became a producer with a cracked version of fruity loops. its not about albums and mixtapes anymore, its about the total experience and interacting with fans. a good example would be them odd future cats and riff raff. they doin the whole youtube thing, makin lil skits, freestyles, etc. social media has made major labels irrelevent when someone can get more exposure off internet blogs and such. araabmuzik is another example, sure he was camron producer, but he grew his brand by posting videos on youtube.
 
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I agree, and as someone who makes beats and wants to become an actually producer in the music industry, I get discouraged when I see how easy it is to make music now. What keeps me going is the fact that I love music and hip hop so regardless of what happens I gotta be true to my passion.
 
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I agree, and as someone who makes beats and wants to become an actually producer in the music industry, I get discouraged when I see how easy it is to make music now. What keeps me going is the fact that I love music and hip hop so regardless of what happens I gotta be true to my passion.

I always laugh at this mentality. If it's so much easy to make music now, then the real talented should have it any easy.

People don't even make beats anymore these days they should mix and match different loops, and sell to some dumb ass who doesn't know

like any other business, it's about relationships. Look at Swizz, dude ain't really that hot like that, but he managed to keep getting placements over the years because of friendships he made in the industry.

The days of Timbaland and Neptunes is over, they production techniques are out dated, fantom and triton sound stale now, making beats on them keyboards ain't no different than software now. Only software offers more flexibility.
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

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I always laugh at this mentality. If it's so much easy to make music now, then the real talented should have it any easy.

People don't even make beats anymore these days they should mix and match different loops, and sell to some dumb ass who doesn't know

like any other business, it's about relationships. Look at Swizz, dude ain't really that hot like that, but he managed to keep getting placements over the years because of friendships he made in the industry.

The days of Timbaland and Neptunes is over, they production techniques are out dated, fantom and triton sound stale now, making beats on them keyboards ain't no different than software now. Only software offers more flexibility.
You seem to have missed dude's point completely... he makes music for fun more than business, so even w/o the business side he would still do it.
 

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There have been some good threads the last week or so that have been in my opinion very good ones as they are based on the realities of the business. 1 was about how artists who just aren't poppin' anymore even make money...

I saw someone mention in the "JT 750k+ Selling" thread about how is it possible that someone like Pharrell can be broke...

Very good informative post but I doubt that Pharrell is anywhere close to being broke even though the record labels may no longer be paying top dollar for him and the Neptunes beats.
 

dora_da_destroyer

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this is true in a lot of the "arts", i mean it's cool that technology has opened the doors to so many hobbies/crafts but at the same time it's really watered down the pool and has made it even harder for the truly passionate/talented to make a living from it vs someone just doing it cuz they had access. this is true in music (both as an artist & producer), photography, videography, graphic arts, different types of design (we won't get on all the "fashion" designers who wouldn't even know how to turn on a sewing machine), etc.
 
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This why I don't believe in buying albums anymore...Anybody can go in their basemnet and make incredible music in a few hours...

Musicians need to earn their keep by performing concerts and shows...

I ain't paying for no CD, unless it's a rare recording...
 

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Very good informative post but I doubt that Pharrell is anywhere close to being broke even though the record labels may no longer be paying top dollar for him and the Nuptunes beats.
Yeah, I think Skateboard P is doing just fine.
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

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this is true in a lot of the "arts", i mean it's cool that technology has opened the doors to so many hobbies/crafts but at the same time it's really watered down the pool and has made it even harder for the truly passionate/talented to make a living from it vs someone just doing it cuz they had access. this is true in music (both as an artist & producer), photography, videography, graphic arts, different types of design (we won't get on all the "fashion" designers who wouldn't even know how to turn on a sewing machine), etc.
I feel like the people who stand out are still better than the norm. I agree that there's a lot more noise, but someone like Kendrick Lamar or Harry Fraud is way better than the typical Soundcloud nigguh. Plus on the flip side now you have talented artists who might not have been able to get in the door able to make music.

The noise is a real problem though. Lot of legitimately talented artists getting crowded out for the likes of 2 Chainz and Big Sean
 

dora_da_destroyer

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I feel like the people who stand out are still better than the norm. I agree that there's a lot more noise, but someone like Kendrick Lamar or Harry Fraud is way better than the typical Soundcloud nigguh. Plus on the flip side now you have talented artists who might not have been able to get in the door able to make music.

The noise is a real problem though. Lot of legitimately talented artists getting crowded out for the likes of 2 Chainz and Big Sean
yep, it's a double edge sword, a lot of the dudes i listen to i probably wouldn't know about if it weren't for all the access, yet there are a lot of nikkas i wish i never heard of cuz of the nets :sadbron:
 
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