Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - The Slotification of Liverpool is nearly complete

[Black Magisterialness]

Do you watch Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga etc. I love Raheem coz Crackers hate him. But there's not a single English player that i consider world class. That stuff bowt England reaching a WC Final is cute though.

Are there any people here who watched football in the early to mid 2000s?... The fringe players of today just don't measure up to prime Del Piero, Nedved, Pirlo, Batistuda, David Villa, Etoo, Drogba, Nesta, Maldini, Henry, Pires, Gerrard etc some of the football discussions and debates today one can really tell that a lot of newer football fans just have no idea. Ronaldinho 2004/5 form is not something I've seen before or since

I do watch La Liga and Bundesliga. I actually think Raheem is the ONLY english player currently that could go to Spain and be great. And I mean we talk of certain players as you named and forget that the late 90's - early 2000's was a footballing golden age. It was like the NBA in the 90's.

Think about how Bird/Magic literally over shadowed everyone for basically a decade. That's the Ronaldo/Messi era we are in. I'm not saying we'll ever see players like that again...but seeing Mbappe, Pogba and that French team do what they did It's hard for me not to be excited about the future.

Lastly, remember that we are oversaturated with information, matches etc. Part of what made Ronaldinho special was his rarity in the type of player he was. He was the EMBODIMENT of what the world idealized as Brazilian Football. Now, we can see SO MUCH Brazilian football that we know every player isn't Neymar/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho etc. A player like Ozil would have been especially lauded 15 years ago. But the game is different now. It's hard to be SPECIAL players when there's so many players to watch...If anything the game is missing legendary defenders and hard men. I think Varane and Van Djik COULD be that if they keep it up.

When, truth be told, players like Aguero, Suarez, Busquets, Modric, Griezmann, Neymar, Bonucci, Lewandoawski, Robben are all time greats and SHOULD be in the pantheon of great footballers....they are just playing in a non-romantic era.

Only game that I remember with classic status like some of the old ones are the 2010 WC Final, and PSG/Barca 1-6.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

And Iniesta STILL should have won in 2010.

 

[Cape Town JHB]

I do watch La Liga and Bundesliga. I actually think Raheem is the ONLY english player currently that could go to Spain and be great. And I mean we talk of certain players as you named and forget that the late 90's - early 2000's was a footballing golden age. It was like the NBA in the 90's.

Think about how Bird/Magic literally over shadowed everyone for basically a decade. That's the Ronaldo/Messi era we are in. I'm not saying we'll ever see players like that again...but seeing Mbappe, Pogba and that French team do what they did It's hard for me not to be excited about the future.

Lastly, remember that we are oversaturated with information, matches etc. Part of what made Ronaldinho special was his rarity in the type of player he was. He was the EMBODIMENT of what the world idealized as Brazilian Football. Now, we can see SO MUCH Brazilian football that we know every player isn't Neymar/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho etc. A player like Ozil would have been especially lauded 15 years ago. But the game is different now. It's hard to be SPECIAL players when there's so many players to watch...If anything the game is missing legendary defenders and hard men. I think Varane and Van Djik COULD be that if they keep it up.

When, truth be told, players like Aguero, Suarez, Busquets, Modric, Griezmann, Neymar, Bonucci, Lewandoawski, Robben are all time greats and SHOULD be in the pantheon of great footballers....they are just playing in a non-romantic era.

Only game that I remember with classic status like some of the old ones are the 2010 WC Final, and PSG/Barca 1-6.

Firstly Arjen Robben is not from this era. He was the best player at Chelsea and the whole EPL when fit in 2004/5 season.

2nd we watched Ronaldinho week in and week out for close to 3 years. There was no oversaturation, he was simoly unplayable from late 2004 till mid 2006.

Also the players you named have way too many question marks on them. Suarez is a legend, Lewandowski is a player who cannot step up in big decisive games (all those semis for Bayern.
Now Mbappe, Pogba etc are legends and truly world class players, joys to watch.

The point im making is simple, for example Luka Modric is one of the greatest midfield players of all time, he anchored a team to 3 CL titles in row, then took a Croatia team to the WC Final... Yet you have people here who are arguing about his lifetime achievement Balon D'Or, in 2006 Ronaldinho was STILL the best player on earth but it was rightfully given to Canavaro coz of Italy 2006 WC and his lifetime achievements at Juve. Sometimes these awards are given ceremoniously to give respects to all time greats like Canavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Puyol or Larson, Rui Costa, Pirlo, Modric etc or strikers like Prime 2005 Adriano, Etoo, Ruud Van Gol, Henry, Inzaghi etc a true football fan would never ever be pissed at the greatest midfield maestro in football for the last 5 years getting the ultimate recognition. In football culture we understand that these things have to happen from time to time.

Lastly the late 90s to mid 2000s were not a golden age per se, coz as late as 2008 football was still electrifying and exciting with world class talents scattered all over the big leagues/teams. What i think the real problem is, it's that yes there's no modern striker that you could really compare to 2005 Adriano or 2006 Samuel Etoo or 2004 a Shevchenko, but Sky Sports/ESPN still need to sell adverts and broadcast rights so they cover average to good players with the same vigor and faked excitement as they used to organically cover the Golden ages. They've basically monetized football to the extent that even though they know Harry Kane is good striker, he's nowhere near world class, same goes for Morata, Lukaku etc yet they cover and talk about these same guys over and over as if they're Alan Shearer or Van Basten.

The English media sells a product and the average new fan doesn't know they're being finenesed. Thus why most modern football discussions are nauseating.

Also your point on Mesut Ozil, Ozil is NOT a legend or world class. In 2012 he was the best number #10 in the world and spearheaded the most devvatsting counter attack I've ever seen in 20 years of watching football, i expected him to go down as an all time great. Once Madrid sold him he never ever reached those 2012 heights, so i disagree with you when you say a player like him would've been lauded in the mid 2Ks. A better example would be James Rodriguez

 

[#1 pick]

moi aussi

 

[TobiOT]

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Firstly Arjen Robben is not from this era. He was the best player at Chelsea and the whole EPL when fit in 2004/5 season.

2nd we watched Ronaldinho week in and week out for close to 3 years. There was no oversaturation, he was simoly unplayable from late 2004 till mid 2006.

Also the players you named have way too many question marks on them. Suarez is a legend, Lewandowski is a player who cannot step up in big decisive games (all those semis for Bayern.
Now Mbappe, Pogba etc are legends and truly world class players, joys to watch.

The point im making is simple, for example Luka Modric is one of the greatest midfield players of all time, he anchored a team to 3 CL titles in row, then took a Croatia team to the WC Final... Yet you have people here who are arguing about his lifetime achievement Balon D'Or, in 2006 Ronaldinho was STILL the best player on earth but it was rightfully given to Canavaro coz of Italy 2006 WC and his lifetime achievements at Juve. Sometimes these awards are given ceremoniously to give respects to all time greats like Canavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Puyol or Larson, Rui Costa, Pirlo, Modric etc or strikers like Prime 2005 Adriano, Etoo, Ruud Van Gol, Henry, Inzaghi etc a true football fan would never ever be pissed at the greatest midfield maestro in football for the last 5 years getting the ultimate recognition. In football culture we understand that these things have to happen from time to time.

Lastly the late 90s to mid 2000s were not a golden age per se, coz as late as 2008 football was still electrifying and exciting with world class talents scattered all over the big leagues/teams. What i think the real problem is, it's that yes there's no modern striker that you could really compare to 2005 Adriano or 2006 Samuel Etoo or 2004 a Shevchenko, but Sky Sports/ESPN still need to sell adverts and broadcast rights so they cover average to good players with the same vigor and faked excitement as they used to organically cover the Golden ages. They've basically monetized football to the extent that even though they know Harry Kane is good striker, he's nowhere near world class, same goes for Morata, Lukaku etc yet they cover and talk about these same guys over and over as if they're Alan Shearer or Van Basten.

The English media sells a product and the average new fan doesn't know they're being finenesed. Thus why most modern football discussions are nauseating.

Also your point on Mesut Ozil, Ozil is NOT a legend or world class. In 2012 he was the best number #10 in the world and spearheaded the most devvatsting counter attack I've ever seen in 20 years of watching football, i expected him to go down as an all time great. Once Madrid sold him he never ever reached those 2012 heights, so i disagree with you when you say a player like him would've been lauded in the mid 2Ks. A better example would be James Rodriguez

YOU may have watched Ronaldinho week in and out...but getting La Liga games in the states without paying $200/month for all kinds of sports channels was NOT the norm. I wasn't saying he was over saturated...I'm sayin NOT being able to see him (because not as many games were broadcast WORLDWIDE at the time. Made his career even more mythological.

I agree with you on the Media but you can't say the 90's to the 2000's wasn't a golden age and then name literally all the top players from that era as legendary. That's the literal definition of Golden Age...in that era you saw the Brazilians, the Italians (and their fall), the start of Barca's golden generation, the Invincibles, the German experiment beginning, The end of the Zidane era, Ronaldinho's dominance, the start of Messi/CR7 era...etc.

All of that happened over a span of 10-15 years, breh. That's a generation...that's a GOLDEN AGE.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Do you watch Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga etc. I love Raheem coz Crackers hate him. But there's not a single English player that i consider world class. That stuff bowt England reaching a WC Final is cute though.

Are there any people here who watched football in the early to mid 2000s?... The fringe players of today just don't measure up to prime Del Piero, Nedved, Pirlo, Batistuda, David Villa, Etoo, Drogba, Nesta, Maldini, Henry, Pires, Gerrard etc some of the football discussions and debates today one can really tell that a lot of newer football fans just have no idea. Ronaldinho 2004/5 form is not something I've seen before or since

Is there any people who watched early to mid 90's football

I do watch La Liga and Bundesliga. I actually think Raheem is the ONLY english player currently that could go to Spain and be great. And I mean we talk of certain players as you named and forget that the late 90's - early 2000's was a footballing golden age. It was like the NBA in the 90's.

Think about how Bird/Magic literally over shadowed everyone for basically a decade. That's the Ronaldo/Messi era we are in. I'm not saying we'll ever see players like that again...but seeing Mbappe, Pogba and that French team do what they did It's hard for me not to be excited about the future.

Lastly, remember that we are oversaturated with information, matches etc. Part of what made Ronaldinho special was his rarity in the type of player he was. He was the EMBODIMENT of what the world idealized as Brazilian Football. Now, we can see SO MUCH Brazilian football that we know every player isn't Neymar/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho etc. A player like Ozil would have been especially lauded 15 years ago. But the game is different now. It's hard to be SPECIAL players when there's so many players to watch...If anything the game is missing legendary defenders and hard men. I think Varane and Van Djik COULD be that if they keep it up.

When, truth be told, players like Aguero, Suarez, Busquets, Modric, Griezmann, Neymar, Bonucci, Lewandoawski, Robben are all time greats and SHOULD be in the pantheon of great footballers....they are just playing in a non-romantic era.

Only game that I remember with classic status like some of the old ones are the 2010 WC Final, and PSG/Barca 1-6.

Sancho can clearly play in Spain. Stones, Trent, Winks, also.

Patrick Roberts

If Vinny Samways can have a decent career in Spain, then so can others.

Bonucci isnt a great defender, tbh. Lovely passer of a ball, but he is what 3rd, 4th best in his own team. Doubt he even makes it top 15 of I've seen from Italy and that includes 2 of his current teammates.

Firstly Arjen Robben is not from this era. He was the best player at Chelsea and the whole EPL when fit in 2004/5 season.

2nd we watched Ronaldinho week in and week out for close to 3 years. There was no oversaturation, he was simoly unplayable from late 2004 till mid 2006.

Also the players you named have way too many question marks on them. Suarez is a legend, Lewandowski is a player who cannot step up in big decisive games (all those semis for Bayern.
Now Mbappe, Pogba etc are legends and truly world class players, joys to watch.

The point im making is simple, for example Luka Modric is one of the greatest midfield players of all time, he anchored a team to 3 CL titles in row, then took a Croatia team to the WC Final... Yet you have people here who are arguing about his lifetime achievement Balon D'Or, in 2006 Ronaldinho was STILL the best player on earth but it was rightfully given to Canavaro coz of Italy 2006 WC and his lifetime achievements at Juve. Sometimes these awards are given ceremoniously to give respects to all time greats like Canavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Puyol or Larson, Rui Costa, Pirlo, Modric etc or strikers like Prime 2005 Adriano, Etoo, Ruud Van Gol, Henry, Inzaghi etc a true football fan would never ever be pissed at the greatest midfield maestro in football for the last 5 years getting the ultimate recognition. In football culture we understand that these things have to happen from time to time.

Lastly the late 90s to mid 2000s were not a golden age per se, coz as late as 2008 football was still electrifying and exciting with world class talents scattered all over the big leagues/teams. What i think the real problem is, it's that yes there's no modern striker that you could really compare to 2005 Adriano or 2006 Samuel Etoo or 2004 a Shevchenko, but Sky Sports/ESPN still need to sell adverts and broadcast rights so they cover average to good players with the same vigor and faked excitement as they used to organically cover the Golden ages. They've basically monetized football to the extent that even though they know Harry Kane is good striker, he's nowhere near world class, same goes for Morata, Lukaku etc yet they cover and talk about these same guys over and over as if they're Alan Shearer or Van Basten.

The English media sells a product and the average new fan doesn't know they're being finenesed. Thus why most modern football discussions are nauseating.

Also your point on Mesut Ozil, Ozil is NOT a legend or world class. In 2012 he was the best number #10 in the world and spearheaded the most devvatsting counter attack I've ever seen in 20 years of watching football, i expected him to go down as an all time great. Once Madrid sold him he never ever reached those 2012 heights, so i disagree with you when you say a player like him would've been lauded in the mid 2Ks. A better example would be James Rodriguez

RE: Robben. Then when the Ax chopped his ankle at Blackburn, he was never the same player in England. Lampard was more important. And no he wasn't the best player in 04/05 PL. Gerrard, Henry etc.

Dinho was already showing signs of decline after Dec 2005. There are still missing posters of him in Paris and Germany from 2006.

I like Pogba but he isn't WC. Very good player, but he needs to show what he can do when he doesn't have a Pirlo, prime Vidal, Kante to play with. At United, partly Mourinho fault, but Pogba hasn't helped himself.

New age fans across all sports are shyt tbh. They too worried about data and not really watching what they see. Lukaku case in point.

 

[Yayo Toure]

How a dude call you a virus and the exchange is calm. Something isn't adding up

 

[steadyrighteous]

I'm not gonna call it, but I feel like away @ Watford is a game City could draw/lose.

But then again it's City

 

[Cape Town JHB]

Arjen Robben when fully fit was THE best player in the league af age 20 in 2005. I know this coz i watched the whole damn season.

This should end all debate. The Damian Duff, Robben Blitz Krieg is still talked about to this day.

Dinho showing signs of aging by the end of 2005???

This was end of 2005 and he got a standing ovation.

Also do you remember the no-look pass in 2006 CL semi final vs AC Milan at the San Siro to set up Giuly's goal which took Barca to the final?

There was no decline. People forget that the 2006 Arsenal team is in the Top 3 of the greatest modern football teams to not win a CL along 2003 Juve and 2000-2004 Valencia.

I really think you're letting Thierry Henry's legend blind you here. 2005 Gerrard was fire, Henry is GOAT but boy i have never seem a winger as explosive and lethal with the cut in as 2005 Robben. He won multiple plauer of the month awards that injury riddled season.

Also do you not consider that 2005 Chelsea team the best in EPL history, their demolition job of Barcenola in that first half is still one of the most electrifying games of football I've ever watched, including Barca's comeback.

What i find extremely difficult about discussing football with the newer fans is that they're not only not knowledgeable and show no innate desire to learn football, i truly believe most newer fans use football strictly as a melodrama. They've swapped super hero movies and all that goofy stuff they watched as kids like Dragon Ball Z/WWF for football. The nauseating "Messi vs Ronaldo" debates, any assertion of someone being the GOAT and they've never even watched a highlights package of Maradona at Napoli, 89/90 Van Basten, 2005 Adriano, prime 1996/97 Ronaldo Fenomeno so many players who's primes however short or long were just gifts from the ancestors. Remember 2003 Nedved? Imagine Modric and Gareth Bale all in one player with the BMT of Drogba.


Im going on a tangent but if you know you know. Pusssssh.

 

[MikeyC]

What i find extremely difficult about discussing football with the newer fans is that they're not only not knowledgeable and show no innate desire to learn football, i truly believe most newer fans use football strictly as a melodrama. They've swapped super hero movies and all that goofy stuff they watched as kids like Dragon Ball Z/WWF for football. The nauseating "Messi vs Ronaldo" debates, any assertion of someone being the GOAT and they've never even watched a highlights package of Maradona at Napoli, 89/90 Van Basten, 2005 Adriano, prime 1996/97 Ronaldo Fenomeno so many players who's primes however short or long were just gifts from the ancestors. Remember 2003 Nedved? Imagine Modric and Gareth Bale all in one player with the BMT of Drogba.

And they're not gonna get the full picture by watching highlights. The clues in the name, mate.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Arjen Robben when fully fit was THE best player in the league af age 20 in 2005. I know this coz i watched the whole damn season.

This should end all debate. The Damian Duff, Robben Blitz Krieg is still talked about to this day.

Dinho showing signs of aging by the end of 2005???

This was end of 2005 and he got a standing ovation.

Also fo you remember the no-look pass in 2006 CL semi final vs AC Milan at the San Siro to set up Giuly's goal which took Barca to the final?

There was no decline. People forget that the 2006 Arsenal team is in the Top 3 of the greatest modern football teams to not win a CL along 2003 Juve and 2000-2004 Valencia.

I really think you're letting Thierry Henry's legend blind you here. 2005 Gerrard was fire, Henry is GOAT but boy i have never seem a winger as explosive and lethal with the cut in as 2005 Robben. He won multiple plauer of the month awards that injury riddled season.

Also do you not consider that 2005 Chelsea team the best in EPL history, their demolition job of Barcenola in that first half is still one of the most electrifying games of football I've ever watched, including Barca's comeback.

You cannot be the best player in the PL when you don't even play half the games.

You one of those Boers?

That Dinho video is classic, but clearly when I said

Dinho was already showing signs of decline after Dec 2005.

.

The only thing Dinho did for the rest of that season was a nice assist in the CL semi vs Milan. Let's not even talk about the vs Liverpool the following season.

And no that Chelsea isn't the best team I've seen in the PL history. What does besting Barca in a cup competition got to do with the PL. But if you want to play that game what about them Scousers. Surely the greatest ever PL team should of beaten them.

 

[Yayo Toure]

I'm not gonna call it, but I feel like away @ Watford is a game City could draw/lose.

But then again it's City

Put your money on City losing if you have money to waste. Last couple games against Watford have been at least 5 goals.

 

[Cape Town JHB]

YOU may have watched Ronaldinho week in and out...but getting La Liga games in the states without paying $200/month for all kinds of sports channels was NOT the norm. I wasn't saying he was over saturated...I'm sayin NOT being able to see him (because not as many games were broadcast WORLDWIDE at the time. Made his career even more mythological.

I agree with you on the Media but you can't say the 90's to the 2000's wasn't a golden age and then name literally all the top players from that era as legendary. That's the literal definition of Golden Age...in that era you saw the Brazilians, the Italians (and their fall), the start of Barca's golden generation, the Invincibles, the German experiment beginning, The end of the Zidane era, Ronaldinho's dominance, the start of Messi/CR7 era...etc.

All of that happened over a span of 10-15 years, breh. That's a generation...that's a GOLDEN AGE.

But all this stuff as a guy who watched this so-called golden era is a bunch of revisionist bullshyt. Example Zidane didn't do nothing at Madrid once Del Bosque left, he had zero motivation fof all the crappy politics, but when he decided to turn on the magic he would, ala 2006 WC after 3 mediocre years at Madrid.
So when people talk about eras it's just weird.

The best passer of a footballer that time was none of these so-called legends like Xavi, it was the Portuguese maestro Rui Costa.
His genius is summed un in one play in 2003 vs Real Madrid a massive massive game at the San Siro.


Other immensely celebrated and loved players were Henriik Larsson who came off the bench in the 2006 CL Final in Paris and did what Deco and Xavi could not do all game, unlock the Arsenal defence.


Juventus is and was the most electrifying team to watch play football followed and tied the art that was AC Milan from.
There's no such thing as the dominance of this and that player coz Samuel Etoo won Barcelona the 2006 and 2009 Finals in Paris and Rome but in revisionist history it was Messi.

I simply do not subscribe to the notion that because capitalistic greed, mass marketing and overall media hype etc have created pathetic ethic in football that has lead to a demise in not only the quality of footballers, the standard of coaching, the atmosphere in the stadiums, the overall discussions and culture etc that doesn't necessarily make the mid 2000s a golden era. That era is simply how football is and should be.

Something i would greatly caution Americans from is equating 80s Celtics /Lakers, 90s Pistons, Bulls, Knicks etc NBA
with football. And using all those American talking points like "eras of dominance"... The CL is just too damn hard and you need to much luck for you to start talking about "dominance" Madrid required extra time twice, and a penalty shootout to win 2 (both against Atletico). Barca 2009 Iniesta miracle with "That Norwegian Ref" was tons of luck, no dominance at all in that semi vs Chelsea, we all know the 2005 Milan choke and the 2006 AC Milan 2nd leg game where Shevchenko's goal and away goal was called offside, there was no team "dominating" world class teams were battling it out to death and after 5 years some had 1 CL title, others had 2,others had 0,others had treble seasons but i do not remember any team being dominant.

Football is a soooooooooo big and deeply entrenched and the talent pool was always always real deep. There's really no eras if you watched back then. Even Madrid were lucky as hell in 1998,more a Juve choke.
I wish i could explain it better but certainly don't use American sports mentality coz that's one of the biggest problem in football now.

 

[ADP]

hoping to see a good performance from watford despite their questionable form