The War on Poverty has been an utter failure

Perfectson

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Catchy headline and you're hooked...it hasn't been an utter failure but here why it's not reducing the poverty rates....


Despite this "failure" to reduce poverty - many of you support socialism or want more socialist programs that emulate and continue failed legislation.

First lets look in summary at the war on poverty

1) Early Education Program

2) Expanded funding for secondary educatin

3) Job training and work opportunity programs

4) Creation of Medicare and Medicaid

does any of the above sound familiar

1964: Unconditional War on Poverty; 2018: Unconditional War on the Poor (I'm listing this to ensure this isn't some partisan war - as I agree with man of the points in the article regarding Trump's poor legislation on tax cuts for the rich and trickle down economics; however, she also failed to address the actual poverty rates correctly, which I show below).

this was the first real sweeping progressive package (outside of the new deal which was key for the depression) that was put in place to combat poverty.


I have stated many times that these social programs infact keep people in the safety net and removes any incentives to get out of said net. Socialism without nationalism is doomed to fail and even then requires some capitalism in order to incent and motive the economy. This is why China was a huge failure until the last 30 years when they moved to a more capitalistic society (even now they statistically have less people as % in poverty).



main-qimg-6a6af0c41ee04e4dee8221772cc308ce-c

I'm using the graph here because it shows the drastic drop in poverty prior to the war on poverty (while the start date assume 1967 as I assume they gave it 3 years of the law being passed to be fully progressing)


1024px-Screenshot-www.census.gov-2018.09.15-10-25-15.png



Now the poverty rate is a bit flawed, so the war on poverty isn't an utter disaster - it does create the applicable safety nets but people have not been inclined to get out of those nets for various reasons.


I also contend programs such as medicare and social security actually does not incentivize citizens to save during their working years, while higher taxes, still creates a stain on consumer spend (basically you are loaning government your retirement fund, instead of funding it yourself) - this is why economists advocate for the creations of the 401k and IRA accounts to combat this and while these are growing still many are burden by the taxes they have to pay into the two programs. And Im not advocating for the removal of safe and sane programs that are there to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves; however, a ridiculous high tax rate and removal of personal incentive is a disasterous combination.
 

Secure Da Bag

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While the War of Poverty was happening the Oil crisis of 1973 and 1979 happened and caused a recession as well. The war of poverty seems to fail upward around 1980 when Reagan was elected. Reagan enacts his 1st tax cuts in 1981. So, genuine question, are the tax cuts just a coincidence in the rise of poverty rate or numbers? Or can they attributed as a reason for the increase?
 

Perfectson

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Brazil is a country that implemented this "no social safety net" experiment ...


A tad bit apples and oranges I'm not saying no social programs and no safety net. I would argue that we should reduce taxes particularly for low and middle and reduction in keeping people "stuck" in social programs . I'm not paintings with a broad brush, it has to be more surgical and assistance to wane people off programs and into the next rung of the ladder.

Brazil is a whole different animal
 

dora_da_destroyer

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Looks like poverty started increasing again around the time raegan waged a full out war against the middle, working, and lower classes :sas2:

Everything else since then has been lip service from both sides - stagnation - as he jilted the country further right...maybe the real momentum behind a progressive movement in these next cycles will see renewed progress in the “war on poverty”
 

Cynic

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A tad bit apples and oranges I'm not saying no social programs and no safety net. I would argue that we should reduce taxes particularly for low and middle and reduction in keeping people "stuck" in social programs . I'm not paintings with a broad brush, it has to be more surgical and assistance to wane people off programs and into the next rung of the ladder.

Brazil is a whole different animal


Those of your ilk always assume the lower classes will lift themselves through social mobility
and skill development if a safety net is withdrawn. Nobody ever takes into account human
psychology and the contempt that would develop against the middle and upper classes.

Those social programs are the deterrent against low income neighborhoods turning into
mafia states ran by militias and gangs like Brazil.

What is this REALLY about ? Fiscal responsibility ?
 

Perfectson

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While the War of Poverty was happening the Oil crisis of 1973 and 1979 happened and caused a recession as well. The war of poverty seems to fail upward around 1980 when Reagan was elected. Reagan enacts his 1st tax cuts in 1981. So, genuine question, are the tax cuts just a coincidence in the rise of poverty rate or numbers? Or can they attributed as a reason for the increase?

I agree with that every year there's a different dynamic in the economy that can create ebs and flow but it's been 50 years and we traversed surpluses, deficits, tax increases and tax cuts and there's no monumental shift in poverty.

We have to at some point look at the programs and claims to what they are doing.

Again in not saying it's not working, it probably works all too well in keeping certain people subdued and pacified. My "solution" isn't cutting taxes in rich , trickle down does not work in the way conservatives pretend it does . Just want to be clear because as soon as you start saying something liberal doesn't work, people jump to conclusions that you're supporting conservative agendas
 

Perfectson

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They will make these apple/oranges comparisons all day long then when you use Venezuela, Greece, Russia, etc. to shyt on socialism they :whoa:
shyt is comedy.


I think saying socialism hasnt worked is fair tho Just like saying pure capitalism will potentially create lower income earnings .
 

Perfectson

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Those of your ilk always assume the lower classes will lift themselves through social mobility
and skill development if a safety net is withdrawn. Nobody ever takes into account human
psychology and the contempt that would develop against the middle and upper classes.

Those social programs are the deterrent against low income neighborhoods turning into
mafia states ran by militias and gangs like Brazil.

What is this REALLY about ? Fiscal responsibility ?


Can you please quote anywhere where anyone said remove the safety net?
 

Cynic

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They will make these apple/oranges comparisons all day long then when you use Venezuela, Greece, Russia, etc. to shyt on socialism they :whoa:
shyt is comedy.
Capitalism fails every ten years due to market corrections and the government intervenes with handouts ... :troll:
 

Secure Da Bag

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I agree with that every year there's a different dynamic in the economy that can create ebs and flow but it's been 50 years and we traversed surpluses, deficits, tax increases and tax cuts and there's no monumental shift in poverty.

We have to at some point look at the programs and claims to what they are doing.

Again in not saying it's not working, it probably works all too well in keeping certain people subdued and pacified. My "solution" isn't cutting taxes in rich , trickle down does not work in the way conservatives pretend it does . Just want to be clear because as soon as you start saying something liberal doesn't work, people jump to conclusions that you're supporting conservative agendas

It seems that the War on Poverty has been suppressed by other overriding policies and their results. So concluding that WoP has failed in getting people out of poverty or succeeded in keeping in poverty is still even after 50 years premature.
 

ELESDEE616

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Capitalism can only survive with an underclass to exploit for cheap labor.

Workers are more efficient than at anytime in history yet wages have stagnated and workers are being forced to work longer and longer hours to meet exceedingly impossible production goals.

No matter how powerful the means of production which a capitalist may bring into the field, competition will make their adoption general; and from the moment that they have been generally adopted, the sole result of the greater productiveness of his capital will be that he must furnish at the same price, 10, 20, 100 times as much as before. But since he must find a market for, perhaps, 1,000 times as much, in order to outweigh the lower selling price by the greater quantity of the sale; since now a more extensive sale is necessary not only to gain a greater profit, but also in order to replace the cost of production (the instrument of production itself grows always more costly, as we have seen), and since this more extensive sale has become a question of life and death not only for him, but also for his rivals, the old struggle must begin again, and it is all the more violent the more powerful the means of production already invented are. The division of labour and the application of machinery will therefore take a fresh start, and upon an even greater scale.

The greater division of labour enables one labourer to accomplish the work of five, 10, or 20 labourers; it therefore increases competition among the labourers fivefold, tenfold, or twentyfold. The labourers compete not only by selling themselves one cheaper than the other, but also by one doing the work of five, 10, or 20; and they are forced to compete in this manner by the division of labour, which is introduced and steadily improved by capital.
 
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