Was Prince the world’s biggest niche artist?

TheBigBopper

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Prince is my all time favorite artist. I’ve been a fan of his since I was 12, but I’ve always thought he occupied a strange position of being a superstar who paradoxically wasn’t part of the mainstream. I was honestly shocked at the global recognition his death received and hadn’t realized he was as famous as he was. I think you could make the case that he’s the world’s biggest cult artist. This is why:

1. Purple Rain was his biggest album, but the most successful singles on it, Purple Rain, Let’s Go Crazy and When Doves Cry, were at odds with what was (and still is) considered traditional black music. The former two songs are unambiguous rock anthems and challenge listeners to re-establish the conventional boundaries of funk and R&B.

2. His follow up albums, Around the World in a Day and Parade, were deliberate attempts to move further away from even the white mainstream and explore his creative freedom. Both albums were critically acclaimed, earning Prince Beatles like status among music writers, but his shift from popular tastes reflected in sales, with each album only doing 2-3mm in sales each compared to Purple Rain’s 13mm.

1987’s Sign ‘O’ the Times, is often more highly regarded than even Purple Rain. While avant garde, with tracks like If I Was Your Girlfriend, the album was a return to Prince’s R&B and funk roots, but it too only did about 3mm in sales. Prince’s only other albums to approach Purple Rain like commercial success were the Batman soundtrack and Diamonds and Pearls. Both are more traditional pop and R&B.

2. His androgynous image made it very difficult to be a fan of his. In some ways it was a strength—how many 5’2” light skinned black men are there running around in makeup? His image helped him stand out among the crowd, but I also think it caused many to overlook his talent and assume he was just some sort of bizarre gimmick singer. His name change to a symbol, although I am sympathetic to his reasoning for doing so, further alienated his fan base and sent Prince into relative obscurity during the mid to late 90s.

3. He became a full fledged independent artist in the early 2000s, self publishing several jazz based instrumental heavy albums. While Prince was heralded for exploring another musical genre, reviews were mixed and the albums were commercial failures. The most infamous of these is the Rainbow Children, a concept album recounting his becoming a Jehovah’s Witness, and features narration from Prince portraying God, using an electronically modulated voice reminiscent of Darth Vader. Sales were abysmal and the album remains one of Prince’s worst performing at about 250k units global.

Despite Prince’s business challenges in the mid 90s through early 2000s, his career made a complete resurgence in 2004 onwards. His 2004 Musicology tour was the most financial successful tour of the year and his 2007 Super Bowl performance cemented his legendary status, reintroducing him to the mainstream. Many critics believe it was the greatest Halftime performance ever.

what do y’all think? :patrice:
 
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TheBigBopper

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You can’t be a niche artist and be as huge as Prince was.
it’s contradictory, but I don’t think his fame necessarily translated to commercial success. He has many multi plat albums but he also has many albums that did <1mm or even less than gold at time when it was unusual for an artist of his stature to sell so few records. His image and music were just far too weird for a lot of people and I don’t think he was really appreciated by the bulk of mainstream America until the latter part of his career.
 

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He had eight Number One position R&B/Soul chart hits, and five Number One position Pop chart hits.

He is one of the top-selling music artists of all-time.

He had fans who liked R&B, rock, metal, funk, jazz. I think he was the complete opposite of niche because
his music was so varied and appealing across genres.

However, he did not fare well after the rise of Hip Hop and Rap in the late 80s and early 90s.
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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it’s contradictory, but I don’t think his fame necessarily translated to commercial success. He has many multi plat albums but he also has many albums that did <1mm or even less than gold at time when it was unusual for an artist of his stature to sell so few records. His image and music were just far too weird for a lot of people and I don’t think he was really appreciated by the bulk of mainstream America until the latter part of his career.
He was dope and promising in the 70’s, and had a stellar run during most of the 80’s that is good or better than anyone whoever did it. His music gradually declined in quality in the 90’s and people weren’t checking for it much in the 00’s.

I don’t see how that made him a niche artist. He was supernova status circa Purple Rain. It’s not likely that he would’ve maintained that degree of stardom. Who does?
 
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TheBigBopper

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He was dope and promising in the 70’s, and had a stellar run during most of the 80’s that is good or better than anyone whoever did it. His music gradually declined in quality in the 90’s and people weren’t checking for it much in the 00’s.

I don’t see how that made him a niche artist. He was supernova status circa Purple Rain. It’s not likely that he would’ve maintained that degree of stardom. Who does?

Compare him to Madonna and MJ. The quality of their music tapered off in the 90s too, but their sales didn’t decline nearly as much as Prince’s did. In fact, MJ and Madge were still pretty consistent sellers in the 90s. I think the whole symbol name change forced Prince into an obscure status he otherwise wouldn’t have held, and his mid-late 90s albums like Emancipation, The Gold Experience, and Rave would have performed similarly to the Love Symbol and Diamonds and Pearls albums, which were both released in the early 90s and did ~3mm and ~7mm respectively. The latter three albums are similar in quality, but the stigma of the symbol name change and fight with Warner Brothers pushed Prince into the commercial background relative to his 1980s pop peers.
 

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Nice breakdown OP and yes he did get very experimental in the mid to late 90s but you are downplaying a bit just how HUGE he was in the 80s. 1999 was a big album and really put him on the map commercially and then you combine the Purple Rain movie and the Purple Rain album both being massive and he was superstar status. Plus you have the music he wrote and produced for other artists as well as how influential the Minneapolis Sound was and how much other artists both black and white tried to emulate it. And also how mysterious he was with never doing interviews and people wondering if he was straight or gay or even a human being lol.

Yes he was definitely weird and unique but you don’t have MJ, the biggest pop star ever, looking at you as competition if you’re merely a niche artist. I’d say as far as pop cultural forces, MJ, Madonna and Prince were the biggest stars of the 80s. I guess you could add Bruce Springsteen in there but his audience wasn’t as diverse as the other 3
 

Drew Wonder

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Compare him to Madonna and MJ. The quality of their music tapered off in the 90s too, but their sales didn’t decline nearly as much as Prince’s did. In fact, MJ and Madge were still pretty consistent sellers in the 90s. I think the whole symbol name change forced Prince into an obscure status he otherwise wouldn’t have held, and his mid-late 90s albums like Emancipation, The Gold Experience, and Rave would have performed similarly to the Love Symbol and Diamonds and Pearls albums, which were both released in the early 90s and did ~3mm and ~7mm respectively. The latter three albums are similar in quality, but the stigma of the symbol name change and fight with Warner Brothers pushed Prince into the commercial background relative to his 1980s pop peers.

It was the fight with Warner Bros as well as the fact that MJ and Madonna were way more calculated with the amount of music they released. MJ and Madonna albums felt like pop cultural events whereas with Prince, he’d release so much music, basically putting out an album every year that it didn’t feel quite as big or momentous, especially in the 90s.

Another thing that really hurt Prince as far as being recognized by the newer generation was how protective he was of his music in the 2000s. You had Madonna and MJ videos readily available on YouTube whereas with Prince you had to hit up torrents or an obscure website to even get his major singles. The lack of access to his music made him way less relevant to the newer generations who only knew him as the dude who beat Charlie Murphy in basketball.
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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Compare him to Madonna and MJ. The quality of their music tapered off in the 90s too, but their sales didn’t decline nearly as much as Prince’s did. In fact, MJ and Madge were still pretty consistent sellers in the 90s. I think the whole symbol name change forced Prince into an obscure status he otherwise wouldn’t have held, and his mid-late 90s albums like Emancipation, The Gold Experience, and Rave would have performed similarly to the Love Symbol and Diamonds and Pearls albums, which were both released in the early 90s and did ~3mm and ~7mm respectively. The latter three albums are similar in quality, but the stigma of the symbol name change and fight with Warner Brothers pushed Prince into the commercial background relative to his 1980s pop peers.
Still don’t see how that makes him a niche artist. I’m not sure what we’re calling a niche artist cause to me that’s someone who finds a certain lane and generally stays in it and acquires a cult following. Prince was the opposite of that.
 

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It was the fight with Warner Bros as well as the fact that MJ and Madonna were way more calculated with the amount of music they released. MJ and Madonna albums felt like pop cultural events whereas with Prince, he’d release so much music, basically putting out an album every year that it didn’t feel quite as big or momentous, especially in the 90s.

Another thing that really hurt Prince as far as being recognized by the newer generation was how protective he was of his music in the 2000s. You had Madonna and MJ videos readily available on YouTube whereas with Prince you had to hit up torrents or an obscure website to even get his major singles. The lack of access to his music made him way less relevant to the newer generations who only knew him as the dude who beat Charlie Murphy in basketball.

I can agree with this too. Until he died, you had to go out your way to find his music online because he was so protective of his work, whereas most people 35 and under discover and consume new music almost exclusively via streaming channels.
 

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It was the fight with Warner Bros as well as the fact that MJ and Madonna were way more calculated with the amount of music they released. MJ and Madonna albums felt like pop cultural events whereas with Prince, he’d release so much music, basically putting out an album every year that it didn’t feel quite as big or momentous, especially in the 90s.

Another thing that really hurt Prince as far as being recognized by the newer generation was how protective he was of his music in the 2000s. You had Madonna and MJ videos readily available on YouTube whereas with Prince you had to hit up torrents or an obscure website to even get his major singles. The lack of access to his music made him way less relevant to the newer generations who only knew him as the dude who beat Charlie Murphy in basketball.
Prince’s peak (Purple Rain) was much bigger than Madonna’s peak too.
 

Drew Wonder

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Prince’s peak (Purple Rain) was much bigger than Madonna’s peak too.

Eh, it was close. I’m not the biggest Madonna fan but Like a Prayer was HUGE, and correct me if I’m wrong but I think it had similar sales numbers to Purple Rain.

Also all the controversy with her mixing sex with religion and the media attention added to how big she was.

MJ was still a level above both of them as far as fame though
 

TheBigBopper

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Still don’t see how that makes him a niche artist. I’m not sure what we’re calling a niche artist cause to me that’s someone who finds a certain lane and generally stays in it and acquires a cult following. Prince was the opposite of that.
I don’t think in the strict sense of the word he’s a cult artist—anyone who has multiple multi plat albums can’t be—but I think some of the artistic decisions he made are akin to picking a lane and staying in it. The difference between prince and true cult artists is that Prince occasionally deviated from the niche lane he paved to let the world know he was still relevant via some of his more blatant attempts at commercial success like Batman, Diamonds and Pearls and Musicology.
 

Booker T Garvey

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He had eight Number One position R&B/Soul chart hits, and five Number One position Pop chart hits.

He is one of the top-selling music artists of all-time.

He had fans who liked R&B, rock, metal, funk, jazz. I think he was the complete opposite of niche because
his music was so varied and appealing across genres.

However, he did not fare well after the rise of Hip Hop and Rap in the late 80s and early 90s.

Great point, those docs by Mike Judge reminded me how huge Funk/R&B was in the early 80's - prince was on top of the world

when the game changed, he took a hit...but I do believe he made incredible music in the 90's though
 
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