What Is The Shape of Space? (ft. PhD Comics)
- Thread starter morris
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Agreed.
They need more sirens and smilies to do numbers here.
As for the video, this shyt is way over my head. If the universe is ever expanding in all directions then how can it be flat?
Imagine someone pouring paint on a flat surface. It just forms a bigger and bigger puddle, it doesn't stack up or build on top of itself until it reaches the confines of the area it was poured into. As for the universe, we don't know for sure if we're trapped, but i have my own theories on that.
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Kaguya said:
That only works if M-theory is correct, but there's no way to prove that unless we get 'outside' the Universe (which is impossible as there IS no 'outside' the Universe), so.............
We'd have to figure out some way to travel inter-dimensionally. The only problem is, matter can't translate across dimensions (AFAIK).....but Information can since it's non-material.
We'd have to figure out some way to travel inter-dimensionally. The only problem is, matter can't translate across dimensions (AFAIK).....but Information can since it's non-material.
That helps, thanks.
Would I be wrong in thinking, then, that, like your paint comparison, there must be some external force preventing space from "expanding up"?
That helps, thanks.
Would I be wrong in thinking, then, that, like your paint comparison, there must be some external force preventing space from "expanding up"?
Yes, kind of. It's more like, space has infinite space to expand, so it doesn't ever HAVE to go up. Imagine you're in a huge empty stadium, and you're pouring the paint. It'll seemingly go on forever. The paint will never go up until it fills the surface of the floor. In the case of the universe there is no stadium around it, just more space.
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Shogun said:
That helps, thanks.
Would I be wrong in thinking, then, that, like your paint comparison, there must be some external force preventing space from "expanding up"?
Methinks the forces involved are all internal and were 'set' at the instantiation of the Universe. Thus, we can speak of 'constants' when mapping out the 'shape' of space.
Consider that gravity acts on material, yet there was no material until the Universe existed.
Matter of fact, there were no 'forces', or dimensions BEFORE the Universe began to exist.
There was no BEFORE since 'time' didn't exist, either.
Consider that gravity acts on material, yet there was no material until the Universe existed.
Matter of fact, there were no 'forces', or dimensions BEFORE the Universe began to exist.
There was no BEFORE since 'time' didn't exist, either.
You lost me, breh. Space stresses me outMethinks the forces involved are all internal and were 'set' at the instantiation of the Universe. Thus, we can speak of 'constants' when mapping out the 'shape' of space.
Consider that gravity acts on material, yet there was no material until the Universe existed.
Matter of fact, there were no 'forces', or dimensions BEFORE the Universe began to exist.
There was no BEFORE since 'time' didn't exist, either.
That only works if M-theory is correct, but there's no way to prove that unless we get 'outside' the Universe (which is impossible as there IS no 'outside' the Universe), so.............
We'd have to figure out some way to travel inter-dimensionally. The only problem is, matter can't translate across dimensions (AFAIK).....but Information can since it's non-material.
Exactly. I don't really like the flat universe theory, I prefer the round universe just because it's easier for the layman to understand plus it kind of makes more sense if we're using the Big Bang theory of how the universe came into existence.
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Kaguya said:
Yeah, makes more sense to think of space like a balloon expanding.......forever.
A 2-Dimensional balloon would also work, but would still have some people like......
A 2-Dimensional balloon would also work, but would still have some people like......
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Shogun said:You lost me, breh. Space stresses me out
Breh, before the Universe existed, there was absolutely nothing. No time, no space, no matter, no energy. NOTHING.
Scientists have tried to get away from this 'Universe-From-Nothing' idea, but the closest they've come is the Vacuum Fluctuation Theory that proposes that there was some type of 'vacuum' from which our Universe was spontaneously generated.
The only problem with the theory: It uses imaginary numbers to combine 'space' with 'time' into one dimension.
This doesn't work since 'time' works as a 'prior to/later than' relationship which has no analogy with space. Thus, this theory was more or less abandoned in the 80's.
The closer scientists come to the point of 'creation' of the Universe, the less the math works to make sense of how/why it happened.
Scientists have tried to get away from this 'Universe-From-Nothing' idea, but the closest they've come is the Vacuum Fluctuation Theory that proposes that there was some type of 'vacuum' from which our Universe was spontaneously generated.
The only problem with the theory: It uses imaginary numbers to combine 'space' with 'time' into one dimension.
This doesn't work since 'time' works as a 'prior to/later than' relationship which has no analogy with space. Thus, this theory was more or less abandoned in the 80's.
The closer scientists come to the point of 'creation' of the Universe, the less the math works to make sense of how/why it happened.
Well, when scientists say the universe is expanding what they really mean is that everything is getting further apart. If you extrapolate that than logically everything used to be much closer together (and much denser), hence the Big Bang Theory. And when they say it's flat they really mean that if you shine two beams of light parallel to each other, they'll never intersect (meaning no positive curvature) and never diverge (meaning no negative curvature).
Basically if the universe is "closed" then it's like the balloon analogy and if you went in one direction far enough you'd get back to where you started. If the universe is flat or open (negative curvature) then that'll never happen and space will just keep going.
Right now it looks like the universe is flat. This would imply that there's no edge and no outside, and the universe is spatially infinite (and has been as long as it's existed), it's just that galaxies are moving away from each other.
To be honest you can't really say anything about "before" the universe existed with current science.
Like you said, once you get close enough to the Big Bang (a fraction of a second) the math stops making sense and the equations start giving you values of "infinity" which is usually a sign of an incomplete theory (this is the same thing that happens with black holes). Until somebody figures out how gravity works in that situation you can really only say what happened right after the Big Bang, any talk about what happened before or what caused it is speculation.
Yeah, makes more sense to think of space like a balloon expanding.......forever.
A 2-Dimensional balloon would also work, but would still have some people like......
And at the end we'll all freeze to death OR the balloon will pop and we are crushed to death! What beauty, I wonder which will happen first.