Why Talib Kweli and Black Men Like Him Aren't shyt

[xiceman191]

https://storify.com/naquelwalker/why-talib-kweli-and-black-men-like-him-aren-t-shyt

I couldn't think of a better title so I just used the one she used on her site. Don't know where to post this just want to get perspective on this. I understand that The opening post is problematic. But is Talib wrong for asking for proof of her claims? I guess I'm just confused.

 

[Yehuda]

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What was the article about?

 

[xiceman191]

What was the article about?

change the y to an i in shyt.

1. Talib makes a tweet about how spike lee, shaun king aren't our enemies and we need to worry about the real enemy
2. Black lady claims that he doesn't speak for all black people and shaun king and spike lee are black women's enemy because they are misogynistic
3. Talib asks for proof of the claims
4. Multiple people say educate yourself
5. Repeat 3&4

 

[Yehuda]

I disagree with this. How are Black men in the U.S. more privileged than Black women?

 

[Insensitive]

Basically a bunch of people make ugly claims about Spike lee and other individuals and when pressed
to provide proof they try to shyt on Talib Kweli.

Being a feminist does not give a person the right to just call people "misogynists" and "sexists" without any
concrete proof. These a$$holes apparently had nothing and weren't looking to discuss a thing. They wanted a fukking
lynching so they grabbed their pitchforks and targeted one of the most reasonable and open minded rappers on the planet.

 

[xiceman191]

I would love if we can get some female members to weigh on this tbh. Cause I definitely want to see both sides of this.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Based on the summary right below the article title on that page, that's 98% of the Coli. I suspect this thread is going to be an absolute shyt-slinging fest with very little, if any, respectful, insightful discussion.

I think that they both had legitimate points. But the whole "privilege" rhetoric is -worthy (even when centered around race IMO -- not because white supremacy isn't real, but because we should focus less on "privilege" and more on interests and how oppressed groups can understand their oppression under the system and work together to replace it).

These "oppressed academics" also need to realize that no amount of debate or discourse is going to undo racism, patriarchy, imperialism, homophobia, etc.

 

[Insensitive]

Based on the summary right below the article title on that page, that's 98% of the Coli. I suspect this thread is going to be an absolute shyt-slinging fest with very little, if any, respectful, insightful discussion.

I think that they both had legitimate points. But the whole "privilege" rhetoric is -worthy (even when centered around race IMO -- not because white supremacy isn't real, but because we should focus less on "privilege" and more on interests and how oppressed groups can understand their oppression under the system and work together to replace it).

These "oppressed academics" also need to realize that no amount of debate or discourse is going to undo racism, patriarchy, imperialism, homophobia, etc.

Well before the idiots get in here and turn this into "I hate wimmenz thread #9001".
Can we at least admit quite a few of them were being pretty unreasonable ? Or even worse
because Talib asked for proof, they immediately shouted him down as a "misogynist" ?


I mean Talib asks for proof and this is the reply he gets from a twitter feminist

"That's my point U as a black man have not experienced their misogyny. And black women sure as hell don't need u to validate it"

What kinda shyt is that ? Any sane person realizes that being asked to provide proof for your claims DOES NOT mean we're trying
to "invalidate your experience of misogyny" though I guess it can appear that way when you're looking for people to agree
JUST because you were born with different genitals.

Quite a few of the feminists who replied basically said "Providing proof" was tantamount to furthering the goals of the
"Patriarchy".

 

[xiceman191]

Well I hope we can avoid any I hate women bullshyt in here. I'm on the side of Insensitive. I would understand if Talib was asking what is misogyny or some super involved shyt like that but he was asking a source on a specific quote and that caused all this shyt.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Well before the idiots get in here and turn this into "I hate wimmenz thread #9001".
Can we at least admit quite a few of them were being pretty unreasonable ? Or even worse
because Talib asked for proof, the immediately shouted him down as a "misogynist" ?


I mean Talib asks for proof and this is the reply he gets from a twitter feminist

"That's my point U as a black man have not experienced their misogyny. And black women sure as hell don't need u to validate it"

What kinda shyt is that ? Any sane person realizes that being asked to provide proof for your claims DOES NOT mean we're trying
to "invalidate your experience of misogyny" though I guess it can appear that way when you're looking for people to agree
JUST because you were born with different genitals.

Quite a few of the feminists who replied basically said "Providing proof" was tantamount to furthering the goals of the
"Patriarchy".

I mean, I see where they're coming from, to an extent. If you're not part of that group, their specific social experience will likely be a blind spot for you. They experience it 24/7 and see the world through their eyes. They see patriarchy/sexism as ubiquitous, we (men) likely do not notice it much. I understand that and so I primarily listen to women about their social experience and support their struggles as opposed to saying what is or isn't appropriate for them to say, do, or think.

I do agree that oppressed people should not have to do some sort of mathematical or philosophical proof of their oppression to someone who doesn't experience their oppression, but come on, at the same time we need to differentiate between the intent of the person asking. If someone is genuinely trying to learn and have a discussion, that should be handled completely differently from someone who is an outright, unrepentant racist/sexist/etc. For an oppressed person who lives that life everyday, yeah, it can be frustrating. No doubt about that.

 

[xiceman191]

I mean, I see where they're coming from, to an extent. If you're not part of that group, their specific social experience will likely be a blind spot for you. They experience it 24/7 and see the world through their eyes. They see patriarchy/sexism as ubiquitous, we (men) likely do not notice it much. I understand that and so I primarily listen to women about their social experience and support their struggles as opposed to saying what is or isn't appropriate for them to say, do, or think.

I do agree that oppressed people should not have to do some sort of mathematical or philosophical proof of their oppression to someone who doesn't experience their oppression, but come on, at the same time we need to differentiate between the intent of the person asking. If someone is genuinely trying to learn and have a discussion, that should be handled completely differently from someone who is an outright, unrepentant racist/sexist/etc. For an oppressed person who lives that life everyday, yeah, it can be frustrating. No doubt about that.

Thats the thing that gets me Talib seemed interested in the discussion and he wanted a source but it just seem like they wanted to attack him for not knowing every thing they have to deal with. In the end they both could of looked it up and avoided the whole thing but damn if you quoting someone or making a claim about it then its your job to prove that. Less privileged or not.

 

[ThatTruth777]

Chicks stupid, I'm curious myself as to what or if Spike and/or Shaun said something that would give credence to their claims but if all they can do is sling mud then

 

[arsena1]

There are groups of black women, more or less affiliated. They are NOT about black empowerment as a collective. Their main purpose is simply black female matriarchy. Black men are the enemy. Pure and simple. They are totally into black female victimhood at the hands of principally black men and secondarily men as a collective. They have a huge problem with any strong, straight black male, no matter what good work he does and they use the black men who do dirt as a generality for all black men. They troll online incessantly under various names and accounts. Any action against a black women even if by a white man is turned into a black male problem. For example, one of them said the Oklahoma cop who raped all the black women was emboldened by black men making mysogonist rap music. It goes that far. Just recognize for what it is, is all I'm. ANY sista not talking empowerment for ALL blacks is the enemy.

 

[Yehuda]

For example, one of them said the Oklahoma cop who raped all the black women was emboldened by black men making mysogonist rap music.

Crazy how the person who tweeted that was actually a man.

 

[Insensitive]

I mean, I see where they're coming from, to an extent. If you're not part of that group, their specific social experience will likely be a blind spot for you. They experience it 24/7 and see the world through their eyes. They see patriarchy/sexism as ubiquitous, we (men) likely do not notice it much. I understand that and so I primarily listen to women about their social experience and support their struggles as opposed to saying what is or isn't appropriate for them to say, do, or think.

I do agree that oppressed people should not have to do some sort of mathematical or philosophical proof of their oppression to someone who doesn't experience their oppression, but come on, at the same time we need to differentiate between the intent of the person asking. If someone is genuinely trying to learn and have a discussion, that should be handled completely differently from someone who is an outright, unrepentant racist/sexist/etc. For an oppressed person who lives that life everyday, yeah, it can be frustrating. No doubt about that.

Which is something I entirely agree on, as a man, I obviously and truthfully cannot speak on
"misogyny against women" from any sort of first hand perspective on account of being born
a man.
So in that sense, I can agree with what you're saying and had that been the focus
of the twitter conversation and had Talib Kweli disagreed, I would've called him on that.

In this situation though Talib was challenging claims of people being "misogynists" or their
calling certain public figures their enemies without any concrete proof only assertions and what
he got in return was pure vitriol for even entertaining the notion that they could be wrong.

Some of these replies threw me for a loop :



(this one in particular is so stupid, you can't
help but laugh. )

Just...WHAT !?!

<---- This woman is in college.

So while I'm careful not to discount any personal accounts of misogyny, I'm also equally
careful with throwing around labels like "Misogynist", unfortunately these women weren't/aren't
which has frankly left them looking like intolerant fools not the progressive, open minded
individuals they'd like to portray themselves as.

For the record I'm just posting these in here to highlight just how nutty they sound and I'm glad we generally agree.