Would you agree with the statement that the only adversity race has is its correlation to low SES?

[SamuraiFlamenco]

Usually in the discussion about Affirmative Action, the topic about "why do minorities get a boost and us white/asian kids don't"? Then they say how the whole process should be race/gender blind, and the fact that SES is a MUCH better indicator of adversity than race in 2014. In their minds, they think that race is used as a proxy for how rich/poor people are, but a poor white kid is gonna have a MUCH rougher life than a rich black kid. Usually no one can come up with a good reason as to why race is used instead of Socio-economic status.

What do you guys think about this?

If you're curious, just go onto student doctor network and search for "URM advantage" to read the ignorance.

 

[*L*E*G*A*C*Y*]

Nope. Not just that...you also have to take into consideration mental health and how it takes a toll eventually on physical health.
And that's really the kicker as to why the black community, given it's history in America has the highest morbity, obesity, diabetic, and cancer rates and how those are concentrated low income areas.

Personally, mental health is criminally overlooked in the black community. You think a race of people can go through the mental anguish of being visible minorities and treated as such by the majority, being persecuted and discriminated legally for decades through legal/industrialized/institutionalized racism, being castigated as an other throughout all forms of media for decades, being stigmatized as "ugly, undesirable, stupid, violent, criminal, etc whateve negative adjective you have", being enslaved/colonized for centuries and be all lickety split hunky dorey fine and smiling like we don't have a goddamn problem?

 

[SamuraiFlamenco]

"But the reply to that would be that there are lots of people that have bad mental health, and that everyone has problems/issues to deal with, so shouldn't THAT be a greater factor in school admissions than just being born a particular race?"


/

 

[andre patton]

A white kid is poor because his parents or his grand parents didnt take advantage of opportunities afforded to them that would have provided upward mobility.

A black kid is poor because his parents nor his grand parents had those opportunities available.

So no, its not just socio-economic status. People ignore the culture of poverty that plagues minorities. My grand parents had to fight for civil rights. My grand parents, grand parents, (my great great grandparents) were slaves. White people act like that shyt was centuries ago. No, it wasnt that long ago.

But I will say...if you were born after 1980 you have no excuse as to why you dont have/cant get a college degree.

 

[SamuraiFlamenco]

A white kid is poor because his parents or his grand parents didnt take advantage of opportunities afforded to them that would have provided upward mobility.

A black kid is poor because his parents nor his grand parents had those opportunities available.

So no, its not just socio-economic status. People ignore the culture of poverty that plagues minorities. My grand parents had to fight for civil rights. My grand parents, grand parents, (my great great grandparents) were slaves. White people act like that shyt was centuries ago. No, it wasnt that long ago.

But I will say...if you were born after 1980 you have no excuse as to why you dont have/cant get a college degree.

But one could say that it isn't the fault of the white kid for being born to irresponsible parents. Also there are some white people that, due to life circumstances, weren't able to be rich.

Even though the vast majority of the rich/privileged people in America are white, there are more white poor people than there are black people period.

 

[*L*E*G*A*C*Y*]

"But the reply to that would be that there are lots of people that have bad mental health, and that everyone has problems/issues to deal with, so shouldn't THAT be a greater factor in school admissions than just being born a particular race?"


/

I'm saying it all ties into each other in the end.

It doesn't matter when it comes to that...you use this "poor white kid/rich black kid comparison" and it's pretty moot IMO.

Even though that black kid is rich...he's still black and this is WHITE America. Alright, we are 13% of the population.

That white kid can be poor but still find a job easier than me...smply because white people own damn near everything when it comes to businesses. Also, when it comes to that...employers are more willing to take on white employees than black employees...mainly because of white privelege and the way society is. There are still white people in this country that only see black people on the internet and on tv...y'all forget about how oversaturated this country is when it comes to Caucasians and the generations of fiscal privelege they're running on.

 

[SamuraiFlamenco]

I'm saying it all ties into each other in the end.

It doesn't matter when it comes to that...you use this "poor white kid/rich black kid comparison" and it's pretty moot IMO.

Even though that black kid is rich...he's still black and this is WHITE America. Alright, we are 13% of the population.

That white kid can be poor but still find a job easier than me...smply because white people own damn near everything when it comes to businesses. There are still white people in this country that only see black people on the internet and on tv...y'all forget about how oversaturated this country is when it comes to Caucasians.

But then they'll say that with Affirmative Action and quotas, minorities should have no problem finding a job, and many times get that job over more "qualified" individuals, which is why sometimes there is racism in America.

Plus, a rich black kid probably has both his parents raising him, went to a good school, didn't have to work to help his family/pay for school, went to a good private school, and is RICH and has the supreme status that comes with that.

You really telling me Cletus that grew up in a trailer park had it harder?

 

[*L*E*G*A*C*Y*]

Oh and as a black dude who's folks came from money...having it easier? Bullshyt.

It doesn't matter how much money you have in America if you are black..sure...you might have "access" to certain things...but to white people..you're still a N!GGER.

My folks live in an affluent neighborhood where professional football players, news personalities, indian doctors, architechts, developers, all these big wigs live. I've always felt slighted at the fact that I've never really felt at home there. One of 3 black families in the whole neighborhood. When we moved in the early 90s, a bunch of white families moved out (I guess they thought that because we moved in the property value was going to go into the sh!tter). I've gotten pulled over by cops IN MY FAMILY'S NEIGHBORHOOD like I didn't grow up and spend my childhood to teenage years of my life there.

I graduated from college almost two years ago and it took me over a year to get the job I have now.

My roommates, two white males who never even graduated college have been able to find work in NYC faster...within a month.

You're young...but as you grow older and see your experiences grow as a black person in America you'll see there's levels to this racism game here. Just when you want to make an argument that it's this...it's actually that. It's more complex than you make it seem...I guess some of y'all are still shedding your innocence to it and opening up your eyes to the world. Happened to me brehs.

 

[godkiller]

Although I support giving helping poor children in admissions, I don't think SES should take priority over minority in admissions. I believe people who bring up SES in affirmative action discussions are "changing the goal posts", in other words changing the subject. Affirmative action was originally instituted to improve black American outcomes. Period. It wasn't instituted to help poor non-black people. Period. One can debate AA's success in achieving this goal, whether AA is the best method to achieve this goal, and what other methods could work, but discussions around generally SES shouldn't have anything to do with AA unless we're talking about poor blacks.. There's no reason to give any other group any affirmative action; they weren't enslaved or historically denied opportunities to the degree black Americans have been. I think poverty AND minority status could both be factors in admission but conflating the two issues should never happen.

 

[mrken12]

But then they'll say that with Affirmative Action and quotas, minorities should have no problem finding a job, and many times get that job over more "qualified" individuals, which is why sometimes there is racism in America.

AA doesn't help black people and it never has.

 

[andre patton]

But one could say that it isn't the fault of the white kid for being born to irresponsible parents. Also there are some white people that, due to life circumstances, weren't able to be rich.

Even though the vast majority of the rich/privileged people in America are white, there are more white poor people than there are black people period.

"Werent able to be rich" isnt the same thing as "being poor"

.
The point of affirmative action is to even the playing field. White people get a head start in the rat race just by being white. Its not a white persons fault their parents are irresponsible...but they're still white. Minorities have to overcome more obstacles than whites just to be able to play on the same damn field.

Nothing you're saying right now is making me feel sorry for these white and asian kids out here.

 

[*L*E*G*A*C*Y*]

But then they'll say that with Affirmative Action and quotas, minorities should have no problem finding a job, and many times get that job over more "qualified" individuals, which is why sometimes there is racism in America.

Plus, a rich black kid probably has both his parents raising him, went to a good school, didn't have to work to help his family/pay for school, went to a good private school, and is RICH and has the supreme status that comes with that.

You really telling me Cletus that grew up in a trailer park had it harder?

AA doesn't help black people and it never has.

AA really only beneffited white women en masse...which the main reason it was instituted in the 50s. It had to do more with sex/gender than race.

Don't believe me? Watch an episode of "Mad Men".

AA has actually helped to reinforce quotas to make sure a certain amount of black people/minorities don't enter the workplace all at once.

 

[SamuraiFlamenco]

AA doesn't help black people and it never has.

So what would you then say to try to help these black people? How should AA be modified to help blacks? I do know that AA is actually more helpful to females than it EVER was intended to be for AA, but at the same time, blacks are usually who are talked about when it comes to AA. Even Hispanics and Native Americans, who get boosts, aren't discussed NEARLY as much, since speaking spanish is considered a "big plus".

Spoiler

No negs people, I'm playing devil's advocate

 

[mrken12]

AA really only beneffited white women en masse...which the main reason it was instituted in the 50s. It had to do more with sex/gender than race.

Don't believe me? Watch an episode of "Mad Men".

AA has actually helped to reinforce quotas to make sure a certain amount of black people/minorities don't enter the workplace all at once.

Or an even better example. Look at the California colleges and notice how the people who make up the minority are white people when AA isn't exercised.

 

[mrken12]

So what would you then say to try to help these black people? How should AA be modified to help blacks? I do know that AA is actually more helpful to females than it EVER was intended to be for AA, but at the same time, blacks are usually who are talked about when it comes to AA. Even Hispanics and Native Americans, who get boosts, aren't discussed NEARLY as much, since speaking spanish is considered a "big plus".

AA will never be modified to help blacks. Anything that even slightly favors black people over other races will be destroyed quickly. The only reason the whole myth about black people heavily benefiting from AA exists is to further galvanize the conservatives into thinking that they're "losing" the country and also to justify their belief that black people are always under-qualified and can never accomplish anything by merit.