Apple Threatens to Pull FaceTime and iMessage in the UK Over Proposed Surveillance Law Changes

[bnew]

Apple Threatens to Pull FaceTime and iMessage in the UK Over Proposed Surveillance Law Changes

Apple says it will pull services including FaceTime and iMessage in the UK if plans to amend surveillance legislation that would require tech...

www.macrumors.com

Thursday July 20, 2023 5:10 am PDT by Hartley Charlton

Apple says it will pull services including FaceTime and iMessage in the UK if plans to amend surveillance legislation that would require tech companies to make major security and privacy changes go ahead (via BBC News).

The UK government is planning to update the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), which came into effect in 2016. The Act of Parliament allows the British Home Office to force technology companies to disable security features like end-to-end encryption without telling the public. The IPA also enables storage of internet browsing records and authorises the bulk collection of personal data in the UK. Due to the secrecy surrounding these demands, little is known about how many have been issued and complied with.

Currently, this process involves independent oversight via a review process and tech companies can appeal before having to comply. Under the proposed update to the IPA, disabling security features without informing the public would have to be immediate.

The UK government started an eight-week consultation process on the proposed amendments to the IPA open to professional bodies, interest groups, academia, and the wider public. Apple has submitted a nine-page-long document condemning many of the changes.

The company opposes the requirement to inform the Home Office of any changes to product security features before they are released, the requirement for non-UK-based companies to comply with changes that would affect their product globally, and having to take action immediately if a request to disable or block a feature is received from the Home Office without review or an appeals process.

Apple also highlighted that some requested feature changes would require a software update, so could not be implemented without public knowledge. The proposals "constitute a serious and direct threat to data security and information privacy" that would affect people outside the UK, Apple claims.

The company added that it would not make changes to security features specifically for one country that would weaken a product for all users, suggesting that services like ‌FaceTime‌ and iMessage will simply be removed in the UK if the amendments proceed.

Apple, WhatsApp, and Signal also oppose a clause in the UK's proposed Online Safety Bill that would allow its communications regulator to require companies to install technology to scan for CSAM in encrypted messaging apps and other services. Signal has threatened to leave the UK over the matter.

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

 

[Iceson Beckford]

UK been on some weird shyt for a while

 

[bnew]

UK been on some weird shyt for a while

not just the UK

Leaked Government Document Shows Spain Wants to Ban End-to-End Encryption​

Leaked Government Document Shows Spain Wants to Ban End-to-End Encryption

In response to an EU proposal to scan private messages for illegal material, the country's officials said it is “imperative that we have access to the data.”

www.wired.com

In response to an EU proposal to scan private messages for illegal material, the country's officials said it is “imperative that we have access to the data.”

SECURITYMAY 22, 2023 3:23 PM


SPAIN HAS ADVOCATED banning encryption for hundreds of millions of people within the European Union, according to a leaked document obtained by WIRED that reveals strong support among EU member states for proposals to scan private messages for illegal content.

The document, a European Council survey of member countries’ views on encryption regulation, offered officials’ behind-the-scenes opinions on how to craft a highly controversial law to stop the spread of child sexual abuse material (CSAM) in Europe. The proposed law would require tech companies to scan their platforms, including users’ private messages, to find illegal material. However, the proposal from Ylva Johansson, the EU commissioner in charge of home affairs, has drawn ire from cryptographers, technologists, and privacy advocates for its potential impact on end-to-end encryption.

For years, EU states have debated whether end-to-end encrypted communication platforms, such as WhatsApp and Signal, should be protected as a way for Europeans to exercise a fundamental right to privacy—or weakened to keep criminals from being able to communicate outside the reach of law enforcement. Experts who reviewed the document at WIRED’s request say it provides important insight into which EU countries plan to support a proposal that threatens to reshape encryption and the future of online privacy.


Of the 20 EU countries represented in the document leaked to WIRED, the majority said they are in favor of some form of scanning of encrypted messages, with Spain’s position emerging as the most extreme. “Ideally, in our view, it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” Spanish representatives said in the document.

The source of the document declined to comment and requested anonymity because they were not authorized to share it.


“It is shocking to me to see Spain state outright that there should be legislation prohibiting EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” says Riana Pfefferkorn, a research scholar at Stanford University’s Internet Observatory in California who reviewed the document at WIRED’s request. “This document has many of the hallmarks of the eternal debate over encryption.”

End-to-end encryption is designed so only the sender and receiver of communications like messages can see their contents. This boxes out all other parties, from scammers to police and even the company providing the digital platform. Law enforcement advocates often propose creating technical mechanisms through which end-to-end encryption can be bypassed for investigations, but cryptographers and other technologists have long argued that this would introduce weaknesses that inherently undermine end-to-end encryption, putting users’ privacy at risk. Furthermore, they have repeatedly concluded that this expanded exposure would ultimately hurt the digital safety and security of vulnerable groups, including children, rather than defend them.


"Breaking end-to-end encryption for everyone would not only be disproportionate, it would be ineffective of achieving the goal to protect children,” says Iverna McGowan, the secretary general of the European branch of the Centre for Democracy and Technology, a digital rights nonprofit organization, who reviewed the document at WIRED’s request.

The leaked document contains the position of members of the police Law Enforcement Working Party, a group of the Council of the European Union that deals with law enforcement views on legislation. Dated April 12, 2023, the document contains 20 countries’ views on a series of questions, including whether they see end-to-end encryption as a hindrance to their work dealing with child sexual abuse and whether they would favor adding wording to the law to stipulate that encryption shouldn’t be weakened. The questions were first posed in January.

WIRED asked all 20 member states whose views are included in the document for comment. None denied its veracity, and Estonia confirmed that its position was compiled by experts working within related fields and at various ministries.

The document reveals strong support for Johansson’s proposal to scan private end-to-end encrypted communications for illegal content. Of the 20 countries included in the document, 15 expressed support for the idea of scanning end-to-end encrypted communications for CSAM. Many framed this type of scanning as a vital tool that would enable authorities to win the fight against child abuse.

“It is of utmost importance to provide clear wording in the CSA Regulation that end-to-end encryption is not a reason not to report CSA material,” Croatia’s representatives said in the document. “Detection orders must necessarily also apply to encrypted networks,” Slovenia said. “We don’t want E2EE encryption to become a ‘safe haven’ for malicious actors,” Romania added.

Denmark and Ireland expressed support for scanning encrypted messengers for child sexual abuse material while also endorsing the inclusion of wording in the law that protects end-to-end encryption from being weakened. The ability to do this would rely on the invention of technology that can scan encrypted messages for illegal content without altering or breaking the security features offered by encryption—a feat cryptographers and cybersecurity experts have said is technically impossible.

The Netherlands, however, stated that this would be possible through “on-device” scanning before the illegal material is encrypted and sent to its recipient. “There are … technologies which may allow for automatic detection of CSAM while at the same time leaving end-to-end encryption intact,” the country’s representatives stated in the document.

“They want to keep the security of encryption whilst being able to circumvent it,” says Ella Jakubowska, a senior policy advisor at European Digital Rights (EDRI). Jakubowska says she is “unsurprised but nevertheless shocked” to see that European countries have a “really shallow understanding” of encryption. “They want privacy but they also want to indiscriminately scan encrypted communications,” Jakubowska says.

 

[Hannibal Fox]

Apple are just mad they'll have to share all the data they've collected

 

[LuuqMaan]

Isn’t it enough that I can count 10 cctvs going to my local Sainsbury’s.

These Europeans think they slick. Pushing riots and protest on Eastern countries based on freedom of speech then turn around and try amend their freedom laws without telling the public.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Isn’t it enough that I can count 10 cctvs going to my local Sainsbury’s.

These Europeans think they slick. Pushing riots and protest on Eastern countries based on freedom of speech then turn around and try amend their freedom laws without telling the public.

They tell the public and it is published by the media at the time but usually hide away in a publication like page 13 in a newspaper or its way down the page online. As they know must people will mostly not scroll down to the bottom.

Or the classic tactic of distraction so something big like for example the Queens death or the Coronation will take up the news cycle for the next week and you can slip the story in of potential law changes in and people won't notice. And then people when new laws come in.

 

[EA]

This Tory government keep inventing ways to become more authoritarian. They’re the worst

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

This Tory government keep inventing ways to become more authoritarian. They’re the worst

Same thing was happening under Phoney Tony government.

The system is the problem. Doesn't matter who is Red Blue or Yellow. These party leaders are figureheads for their puppetmasters in the shadows. Obviously you get loosen cannon like Boris but even he answers to someone.

I remember Blair sacking Jack Straw when he was Foriegn Secretary because he wouldn't sign off on attacking Iran.

 

[EA]

Same thing was happening under Phoney Tony government.

The system is the problem. Doesn't matter who is Red Blue or Yellow. These party leaders are figureheads for their puppetmasters in the shadows. Obviously you get loosen cannon like Boris but even he answers to someone.

I remember Blair sacking Jack Straw when he was Foriegn Secretary because he wouldn't sign off on attacking Iran.

You’re right. Blair’s “Labour” government was a centrist party that mainly appealed to corporations and lobbyists.

We haven’t had an actual left leaning party in over 30 years and I have zero faith in Starmer because he refuses to outright denounce any practices from this current government.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Companies fighting for the citizens against the gov

 

[CashmereThoughts]

I don’t know about this one.

The point of having an iPhone is how seamless iMessage/FT/Airdrop is.

Without those things tying users to the ecosystem, iPhone sales will suffer. That will threaten apply watch/MacBook and everything else they sell in that market

 

[Formerly known as...]

I don’t know about this one.

The point of having an iPhone is how seamless iMessage/FT/Airdrop is.

Without those things tying users to the ecosystem, iPhone sales will suffer. That will threaten apply watch/MacBook and everything else they sell in that market

It wont. Apple users love Apple. Iphone users will remain but will moan.

 

[Bonk]

UK been on some weird shyt for a while

For a while?

The U.K. is a police country & this nonsense in the news is just the government & Apple playing to the gallery to act like they care about people’s privacy/rights.

GCHQ has all the information already.

I knew the country was on fukkshyt based on how they pulled everyone’s “encrypted” messages from BBM back in 2011 after the riots.

The big brother is watching you & reading your messages 24/7.

 

[Bonk]

You’re right. Blair’s “Labour” government was a centrist party that mainly appealed to corporations and lobbyists.

We haven’t had an actual left leaning party in over 30 years and I have zero faith in Starmer because he refuses to outright denounce any practices from this current government.

Labour has always been a centrist party albeit it’s a Union party. I can’t think of any Labour PM who wasn’t a centrist apart from James Callaghan (who wasn’t elected & became the PM due to the death of Harold Wilson).

Harold Wilson was also a centrist.

England dominates the Union & most English people are conservative. By virtue of that: Labour would always have to move to the centre to win the general elections - failure to do that is the reason why the party was in the doldrums under Ed & Corbyn. And it was also the reason why James Callaghan was disgraced out of office as PM & replaced by Thatcher.

That’s the sad reality of the UK - England controls the union & Labour would always have to appeal to the English majority to win elections.

I don’t see Sunak winning an election. I don’t like Starmer but he’s the perfect guy the English public would vote for. A Tory in a Labour jacket. Starmer is the next PM & it’s not going to be close.

That said: Blair, despite his flaws, remains the best PM we’ve had in the last 50 yrs.

 

[CashmereThoughts]

It wont. Apple users love Apple. Iphone users will remain but will moan.

I am a hardcore apple user and the whole point is the ecosystem. when non apple users buy an iPhone, iMessage is the reason. no iMessage is a problem for apple