fifth column
Superstar
Bron and Kareem has a case against each other but not against MJ. Wilt was a dominant force no doubt but he ain’t really win like he should. Ability that doesn’t translate to winning is
Ben Taylor’s Greatest Offensive Players Series
- Thread starter Bigblackted4
- Start date
What are we even arguing in here? Look at Taylor's top 40 list. He had plenty pre-merger players on there. Wilt and Russell are both in his top 10. He's not biased against eras, more against PF's and Centers.
I disliked the Wembanyama video because he was trying to down post play needlessly and acting as if skilled big men were inherently worth less because of their style of play and naturally lesser playmakers. It's why he loves KG and rates him higher than most people would when you factor in lack of playoff success as other players in the top 10.
I dislike Jordan stans as much as most rational basketball fans, but all of his resume is almost untouchable(Lebron and Kareem are right there). His postseasons hold up and even exceed his regular seasons. He was an amazing all around player. Dominated in multiple eras as the man.
I disliked the Wembanyama video because he was trying to down post play needlessly and acting as if skilled big men were inherently worth less because of their style of play and naturally lesser playmakers. It's why he loves KG and rates him higher than most people would when you factor in lack of playoff success as other players in the top 10.
I dislike Jordan stans as much as most rational basketball fans, but all of his resume is almost untouchable(Lebron and Kareem are right there). His postseasons hold up and even exceed his regular seasons. He was an amazing all around player. Dominated in multiple eras as the man.
2016 Bron couldn't compete with MJ?Bron and Kareem has a case against each other but not against MJ. Wilt was a dominant force no doubt but he ain’t really win like he should. Ability that doesn’t translate to winning is
fifth column
Superstar
So you are impressed that in 2016 Lebron came back from 3-1? So the other versions of Lebron couldn’t have done the same given the circumstances?2016 Bron couldn't compete with MJ?
I think 2011 Bron couldn't have
Bigblackted4
Superstar
He lacks the success because the teams were exceptionally bad like I just was doing some research and you should see the year before his MVP season. They won 2 games off the Shaq and Kobe Lakers and the next year he absolutely washed Webber in game 7 in his last true prime year.
I agree with you and KG was one of my favorite players man. I think he's an amazingly underrated player, but not top 10. He definitely could've come up bigger in playoff moments to solidify himself in that top 10 slot.
GOAT
The bubble was fraudulent
KG's lack of Playoff success can be attributed solely to the lack of talent around him.
The two times he had a talented team during his prime he:
1. Went to the WCF with a hobbled team and took a team with four HOFers to 6 games with the only other All Star teammate he had injured.
2. Was the best player on a championship team and anchored one of the GOAT defenses.
Most respectable NBA analysts understand this and thus rank him significantly higher than casuals do.
I agree. As a KG stan who studied the statistics since I was a kid, it was a hard sell convincing people this.
"HOW MANY RINGS HE GOT THO!"
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
Iverson video was good broke down his slashing, underrated off-ball play, underrated playmaking, and put his inefficiency in its rightful context of the early 00’s NBA taking an a lot of long twos with limited offensive teammates, slow pace, and physical defensive oriented era, also spoke on how Iverson added offensive value with his stamina he was able to stay on the court longer than anyone
He picked up some bad habits like early shot clock shots, jacking long twos, looking off shooters from his time in Philly with limited offensive options. These habits along with him being a mediocre/streaky outside shooter with sketchy mechanics despite a pretty looking jumper limited Denver’s offense, also playing alongside Carmelo and being relegated to the wing/spot up duty during his isos is why Denver’s offense was better with Miller/Billups. Took a beating over the years and that along with his off court issues and stigmatization ended his career sooner than it had to
Would love to see an AI in this era with range/better jumper who takes less long twos and with the spacing now would low key be something like a smaller Steph
He picked up some bad habits like early shot clock shots, jacking long twos, looking off shooters from his time in Philly with limited offensive options. These habits along with him being a mediocre/streaky outside shooter with sketchy mechanics despite a pretty looking jumper limited Denver’s offense, also playing alongside Carmelo and being relegated to the wing/spot up duty during his isos is why Denver’s offense was better with Miller/Billups. Took a beating over the years and that along with his off court issues and stigmatization ended his career sooner than it had to
Would love to see an AI in this era with range/better jumper who takes less long twos and with the spacing now would low key be something like a smaller Steph
Wilt scored 50 by putting up 40 fga and 17 fta every game despite having three HOF teammates. Then he barely won a first-round matchup against a Syracuse Nationals team that featured Lee Shaffer and Red Kerr as their leading scorers, before losing to Boston in the next round. There are quite valid reasons to not consider that the greatest peak.
FunkDoc1112
Heavily Armed
He has Kareem over Jordan all-time and has criticized MJ's defense and court vision
FunkDoc1112
Heavily Armed
And another thing is Ben puts a big premium on how your game holds up in the playoffs, and that why he considers MJ and LeBron in a class of their own in that regard, while Wilt always had dropoffs in the postseason.
He also mentioned Kobe and Hakeem as guys whose games held up in the postseason because they took so many difficult shots anyway that quality of defense didn't make that big of a dent in their efficiency.
lol
Free throws have nothing to do with making on-the-spot decisions in actual gameplay. Someone can be wonderful at pressure decisions and still brick their free throws under pressure. Someone make all their free throws and still be terrible at pressure decisions. They're completely different situations.
If Harden were simply worse in the playoffs, your argument would have merit. But he's very specifically worse in the biggest games in the playoffs. He has put up some of the worst Games 4-7 in NBA postseason history, especially when the series is on the line. Why aren't his Games 1-3 equally bad?
Huh? Harden's history against the Warriors is nothing to brag about
2015: A 5-game loss that ended in one of the worst performances in NBA postseason history (shot 2-11 including 0-3 from 3pt, 12 turnovers, 5 fouls)
2016: Another 5-game loss
2017: Didn't face this squad, the actual peak of the Warriors, because he was getting blown out by the Spurs with no Kawhi in an all-time humiliating performance
2018: The one 7-game series you're remembering. The rest of the squad (due to stellar defense, some timely three-point shooting, and CP3's leadership) had far more to do with this than Harden did. Once CP3 was out, Houston lost the next two games by double digits.
2019: 6-game loss despite Durant not even playing in Game 6