Black Nationalist Thought Experiment

motion order

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Almost every single drug, from alcohol to ketamine to ayuahuasca to ecstasy to mushrooms to marijuana has shown therapeutic benefits. There are plenty of mind altering substances that help us with everything from surgery to the treatment of mental illness.
You initially asked about recreational drug use. Now you've introduced the therapeutic and medical benefits of said drugs into the discussion. You've moved the goalposts.

Drawing an arbitrary distinction between one set of chemicals, and an another set of chemicals
I never did this. I gave my opinion on recreational drug use.
All ancient cultures experimented with mother nature, and alcohol dates back to ancient mesopotamia.
This is an appeal to antiquity
If anything banning and stigmatizing drugs is some whiteman shyt.

Further more, developing the type of government institutions that need to enforce archaic drug laws is going to create the same perpetual underclass that plagues America.
You've confined your conception(s) of the possible means manners and methods of governance in this new State to your experiences under the whiteman.
Socially speaking, if you banned, and enforced a strict ban on alcohol, marijuana, and other recreational drugs, it's going to be just you and 5000 other sober people.
Hyperbole, and a caricature of the mindset and desires of the Blackman in America.
 
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Ya' Cousin Cleon

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logistically this isn't even possible

Question, or maybe two. I've never seen Black Nationalism defined as the belief of a separate Black nation with defined borders within the United States. Do you have any links from self identified Black Nationalists who've expressed the desire to see this idea come to fruition? I'm curious to see their thoughts on the matter.

I've seen White Nationalists with this idea for years. The Pacific Northwest has long been a goal as the ideal location for an exclusively white homeland. That's partly the reason why there's so many of them in Washington state. I've come across maps like the following throughout the years as well. This taken from the ADL captured from GAB.

Carlos%20Grant%20GAB%20image_0.png
 

WIA20XX

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How liberal would our immigration policy be?

I like the Canadian system - points based, and the points are related to skills.

Would the quality of life be any better than any other Black country in the New World?

On the material side of things, that's a function of the economy.
On the cultural/intangible/psychological side of things - it's by definition hard to quantify.

Plenty of Caribbean/African countries have all black everything. In those countries - it really doesn't mean much. It's only when they move to other places, or compete against others that it does start to mean something.

You should read Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson.

Or any other Black country on the planet?

The competition would be - most of the Americanized Caribbean and Nigeria and South Africa.

In terms of quality of life, It could very well be better than those places.

What would be our policy towards crime and punishment?

No matter what race is running things, there are still people that want to murder, rape, rob, steal, cheat - etc.

Clear laws, Good Enforcement, Fair Sentences.

That said, most of the Black nations of the diaspora still have capital punishment. Most drugs are illegal. And regular things like theft, robbery, and sexual assault are crimes.

The real issues with those are enforcement.

A big part of why any government "works" is that individuals in the population fear the state. The state has the only legitimate use of power.

How do you collect taxes when people don't really fear the government?

The institutions of the state are one of the big problems all over the developing world.

Drugs and alcohol?

Legalize it - including the hard drugs. Regulate. Incarcerate those who would flount the law.

What would we trade?

That's a good question.

I would assume that a lot of the big corporations would move.
Disney leaves Florida
Coca Cola leaves Georgia

The other states are always in the red, and honestly have not recovered economically since the end of the civil war.

So on day 1 of the New Republic - that leaves agricultural products with the rest of the states (FL Oranges and GA Peaches, etc). If the leaving population burns the fields, distribution centers, stops the fertilizer/pesticide trade, destroys the equipment....

The ADOS states would have to double down on IP production - and hope that IP protections would be honored across the globe. Given how Haiti was treated, I'd wonder very much about that.

What would we build?

We'd have to build/rebuild everything.
  • Defense
  • Food production
  • Infrastructure
  • Schools
  • Hospitals
It would be like a massive Cuba. Possibly a failed state like Somalia/South Sudan.

How would we govern?

We would try democracy at first. I doubt any would see the need for senators. It'd be a one executive and a cabinet, and a lot of representatives.

I suspect that it would devolve into multi-parties that can't work with each other for the most part. (see a lot of Western Europe)., I would expect a "strong man" to emerge, much like it did in the US in 2016, and it does all over the world. ,,,

It took something like 1800 years for the UK to get governance "right". and by right, I mean the rulers respect the subjects, and subjects respect the rulers. And if either one gets out of line, the other is there to reset things. It's the rules that everyone abides by that makes a society prosper - because everyone is sort of working towards the same thing.

In terms of governance, same timeline with most of the Euros.

Asia, even Japan and Korea, are effectively 1 party states - where the old powers rule along side the industrial oligarchs.

I find the NOI's/Black Nationalist dream to be a good one - I just don't think they have any students of history in their camp.
 

Starman

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I like the Canadian system - points based, and the points are related to skills.
Are there any immigration limits in that system?
You should read Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson.
Thanks! Added it to the list.
The competition would be - most of the Americanized Caribbean and Nigeria and South Africa.

In terms of quality of life, It could very well be better than those places.
I think it could be also, but I don't have any reason to think it would be. If it's no better, is it worth doing?

No matter what race is running things, there are still people that want to murder, rape, rob, steal, cheat - etc.

Clear laws, Good Enforcement, Fair Sentences.

That said, most of the Black nations of the diaspora still have capital punishment. Most drugs are illegal. And regular things like theft, robbery, and sexual assault are crimes.
Right. I don't think the black America in question would be too different in that regard either.
The real issues with those are enforcement.

A big part of why any government "works" is that individuals in the population fear the state. The state has the only legitimate use of power.

How do you collect taxes when people don't really fear the government?

The institutions of the state are one of the big problems all over the developing world.



Legalize it - including the hard drugs. Regulate. Incarcerate those who would flount the law.



That's a good question.

I would assume that a lot of the big corporations would move.
Disney leaves Florida
Coca Cola leaves Georgia

The other states are always in the red, and honestly have not recovered economically since the end of the civil war.

So on day 1 of the New Republic - that leaves agricultural products with the rest of the states (FL Oranges and GA Peaches, etc). If the leaving population burns the fields, distribution centers, stops the fertilizer/pesticide trade, destroys the equipment....

The ADOS states would have to double down on IP production - and hope that IP protections would be honored across the globe. Given how Haiti was treated, I'd wonder very much about that.



We'd have to build/rebuild everything.
  • Defense
  • Food production
  • Infrastructure
  • Schools
  • Hospitals
It would be like a massive Cuba. Possibly a failed state like Somalia/South Sudan.



We would try democracy at first. I doubt any would see the need for senators. It'd be a one executive and a cabinet, and a lot of representatives.

I suspect that it would devolve into multi-parties that can't work with each other for the most part. (see a lot of Western Europe)., I would expect a "strong man" to emerge, much like it did in the US in 2016, and it does all over the world. ,,,

It took something like 1800 years for the UK to get governance "right". and by right, I mean the rulers respect the subjects, and subjects respect the rulers. And if either one gets out of line, the other is there to reset things. It's the rules that everyone abides by that makes a society prosper - because everyone is sort of working towards the same thing.

In terms of governance, same timeline with most of the Euros.

Asia, even Japan and Korea, are effectively 1 party states - where the old powers rule along side the industrial oligarchs.
Trump wasn't a "strong man"(he was thwarted constantly by judges, Congress, etc.), but I agree with the rest.

I especially like that you acknowledge how long it could take to get government "right". Is it worth the time and effort to have our own though? I still say yes.
I find the NOI's/Black Nationalist dream to be a good one - I just don't think they have any students of history in their camp.
If you have more on the NOIs plans specifically, I'd like to read that too.
 

WIA20XX

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Are there any immigration limits in that system?

I would have to research it further, but in terms of an upper bound on skills - no.
Canada needs people.

Without the Latinos and Black People, the median age of the average white American is 65.

Every modern economy (which is based on growth) needs young people to consume/work. Without it...

Thanks! Added it to the list.

I think it could be also, but I don't have any reason to think it would be. If it's no better, is it worth doing?

Given what we see throughout history, the question is what would be gained? This is not a knock to the idea - but I think the various folks that carve out a chunk of America are really just trying to escape White hegemony. I personally think folks need to be honest about the reasons for a separate nation, in order to figure out one properly.

There's a thread on TLR inspired by the latest episode of Snowfall. One of the characters leaves drug infested LA for Africa, and apparently has a moment.

What if 35-40M of us were "snapped" into Africa?

It would not be chickens in every pot and cocoa butter scented breezes.

At the same time - we've got Republicans in Alabama remixing segregation - Mississippi Republicans pass bill to create separate, unelected court in majority-Black city

And head of the Democratic party siding with Republicans (again) on DC's self determination - Biden Bows to Republicans on Blocking D.C. Crime Law, Avoiding Veto Fight

Getting out from under the thumb of those who are against us is the goal. A separate nation, or a covert nation within a nation - is not going to get it done.
 
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