Hot Take: wrestling has the highest amount of stories with women that pass the Bechdel test in all of fiction

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

My brain instantly went to "nah, that's bs" but since the Revolution I think you've probably got a point. I guess wrestling also has an advantage from the sheer number of storylines it gets through - plenty pass the test these days, but you've still got women like Scarlett in the old-school ornament role.

Look at all the Damage Ctrl stuff - not a man in sight and not the slightest need for one.

Probably my least favourite womens angle lately has been the one where AEW are injecting a Cool Hand Ang relationship angle into Saraya and Ruby breaking up. Corny as shyt.

I was gonna ask how that is in relation to aew...not bait honestly, I don't know

 

[StatUS]

I was gonna ask how that is in relation to aew...not bait honestly, I don't know

Most AEW woman's fueds have been "we used to be friends but you've changed" lately.

ROH is actually the better for this with intertwining storylines between mutliple woman for different titles lol.

 

[TheAlbionist]

I was gonna ask how that is in relation to aew...not bait honestly, I don't know

Women's booking generally has been poor in AEW but in purely Bechdel terms for the biggest recent angles in AEW/ROH

Outcasts Vs Originals - Mean Girls from the rich school beat down the division until their egos pull them apart. No men, but an excuse of a storyline that plays into the "successful women can't be friends" trope tbh.

Athena's Minion School - probably the best thing they've done. Felt totally female led in a way that made it miss me occasionally, my girl wanted to dislike it at first (what's that about successful women) but it ended up being her favourite thing each week.

Ruby/Saraya's breakup. For some reason Ruby Soho and Cool Hand Ange starts a relationship where they only see each other for 5 seconds on TV each week. Saraya gets jealous because women can't be happy for each other and gets a new best friend who she uses to mess with Ruby's relationship eventually bringing in her brother to fight Ange too. Bizarre and a spectacular fail of the test for no good reason whatsoever.

Julia Hart. All brilliantly done, but you can't get away from her being "turned" by Malakai.

Skye Blue/Julia/Willow/Stat - Skye/Willow get misted by Julia. Skye succumbs, Willow resists, sides are formed. Stokely's a minor supporting character shouldn't risk it test-wise, but it's been going on forever, is still fun and Mercedes about to step in.

Taya Valkyrie is using Johnny as her valet as much as/more than the other way round in ROH at the moment and it's coming out pretty well. Fails the test because it's a lot about their relationship but feels "progressive" in a good way.

Toni Storm and Mariah May doing All About Eve. Men are involved but mainly to be used as butlers/props, apart from that it's just women being nuts with varying results.

Tl;dr Test wise they probably do alright overall compared to non-wrestling TV. The division as a whole isn't as bad as the Internet says, but they're most definitely not on main brand WWE's level with the women yet and it's mainly the booking/writing/time rather than the actual WORK... this question low-key gets to the heart of what was going wrong for a long time.

Post Script: The Japanese women who are some of the best workers in the company essentially do not get storylines other than they're great workers. Same as the non-Lucha Brothers Luchadors. It's weird.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Tl;dr Test wise they probably do alright overall compared to non-wrestling TV. The division as a whole isn't as bad as the Internet says, but they're most definitely not on main brand WWE's level with the women yet and it's mainly the booking/writing/time rather than the actual WORK... this question low-key gets to the heart of what was going wrong for a long time.

I slightly disagree with part of this. I do think the division has gotten better but I think it was a combination of bad booking and a lot of the ring work wasn't up to the level you'd like to see because they have a lot of women who are still green. That said, some of them like Skye Blue are improving. It'll be interesting to see what happens now that the company will be forced to put more emphasis on the division as a whole.

 

[TheAlbionist]

I slightly disagree with part of this. I do think the division has gotten better but I think it was a combination of bad booking and a lot of the ring work wasn't up to the level you'd like to see because they have a lot of women who are still green. That said, some of them like Skye Blue are improving. It'll be interesting to see what happens now that the company will be forced to put more emphasis on the division as a whole.

Depends on your lens I think - if you turn the channel from Raw or from a Stardom show then 50% of the work is not at the same level. TNA it's pretty similar (TNA get more matches but they're still pretty average usually). If you compare to GCW or almost anything else it's markedly better.

For me, there isn't a single company and won't be one for years/decades that can do what WWE do. The pipeline they've built took them decades to put in place not counting the time it took to get big enough to consider it all.

So generally I view what AEW tries to do with a kinder lens because of the lack of reps and lack of PC access everyone has, I don't whip the talent for shyt they don't have access to.

I wouldn't enter a single argument and try to front like Skye Blue is a better wrestler than Lyra Valkyria, but I'd watch her try to do one spot too many with Willow over Lyra Vs Anyone But Tiff wrestling a perfectly safe and decent match anyday. Purely personal taste ting.

 

[OneDeep]

Some will disagree with me but Sasha vs. Bayley changed the game. Yes, women's wrestling was already somewhat separated from the men by this point and seeds were being planted but that is THE match that showed that the women can be just as over as the men IN THE RING...

Packed house in Brooklyn and all anyone was talking about after the show was Sasha vs. Bayley. They both came out with grand entrances and then they absolutely killed it out there in front of a molten crowd.

It's one of the most important matches in recent wrestling history because it literally changed how they book 30-40% of the shows.

Spot on

Sasha vs Bayley is the most important match/feud in the history of NA women’s wrestling

 

[TheAlbionist]

The further you get from that Sasha/Bayley NXT run, the more I think it becomes clear that was the moment. Everyone had seen main event level work before then and women had been given token slots, but that was the real industry acid test for "Can two women genuinely be the top storyline" and they knocked it out of the fukking park to a degree not many men were doing at the time.

It's gotta mean something that the Bayley superfan was so inspired by the whole experience she's now becoming an actual wrestler... the impact when you see it through a whole generation of female wrestlers coming up will be insane.

 

[StatUS]

I feel yall but let's give Gail Kim and Awesome Kong some crumbs of the cake damn

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I feel yall but let's give Gail Kim and Awesome Kong some crumbs of the cake damn

Listen... TNA was the first U.S. company to really get behind women's wrestling like that and you're right Kim/Kong was a great rivalry even the Kong/Wilde matches from what I recall were good.

But as far as women having a 5-star type of match in front of a packed house that everyone was able to witness.... Sasha and Bayley was the moment and I feel the presentation with their entrances added to it as well..

 

[Neuromancer]

Aww that's nice.

 

[OneDeep]

I feel yall but let's give Gail Kim and Awesome Kong some crumbs of the cake damn

They did their thing but they wasn’t in the big multi million dollar company in front of millions of people

Plus that was The Beautiful People we’re more popular at that time too

 

[StatUS]

Listen... TNA was the first U.S. company to really get behind women's wrestling like that and you're right Kim/Kong was a great rivalry even the Kong/Wilde matches from what I recall were good.

But as far as women having a 5-star type of match in front of a packed house that everyone was able to witness.... Sasha and Bayley was the moment and I feel the presentation with their entrances added to it as well..

They did their thing but they wasn’t in the big multi million dollar company in front of millions of people

Plus that was The Beautiful People we’re more popular at that time too

Why yall act like I wasn't saying to just give them a lil cred like this

 

[OneDeep]

Why yall act like I wasn't saying to just give them a lil cred like this

I must of worded it wrong

But still it’s a case of Hot line/Hot song

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Why yall act like I wasn't saying to just give them a lil cred like this

Breh I agree with you they deserve a lot of credit

 

[TheAlbionist]

I feel yall but let's give Gail Kim and Awesome Kong some crumbs of the cake damn

They can get the "laying the groundwork" slice that WWE kept trying to give the Bellas.