How the Haitian Revolution changed America and ADOS forever

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

So I brought up the role the Haitian Revolution played on the United States and for some reason, people either have a hard time believing or or seeing it. I got negged/challenged to bring the debate here, so it's a bet.

I'll share a few youtube videos and links that reiterate the same point over and over again, but it's really simple:

1. The Civil War was largely over whether or not to expand slavery in the west.
2. The "west" was the Louisiana territory, by the US from France in 1803.
3. The French DID NOT give up this land for no reason. Haiti was the richest colony in the world at the time, and crucial to their plans in the "new world"
4. Haitians victory over the French dissolved any plans they had here .

Had the French defeated Haiti, cities such as St. Louis, New Orleans, etc would be under French control. We're talking trillions in resources, industrialization, trade routes on the Mississippi river would ALL be in French hands. A win for them quite would've led to France becoming the world's super power. America would be vastly different. What would the Civil War be about if not for the contention on slavery in the new west? Would there even be a war? Would they rely on slave labor even more given their limited land and resources? Would we have become a country for European immigrants to immigrate to? All these questions and more hang in the balance if Haiti lost-- and we're just talking about America here. I see it said often that immigrants should be grateful for the contributions we made that allowed them to be here-- and that's definitely true. But likewise... it's important for us to reciprocate and acknowledge what their contributions meant for our world as well.



https://www.history.com/news/louisiana-purchase-price-french-colonial-slave-rebellion

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

 

[Secure Da Bag]

The Civil War was largely over whether or not to expand slavery in the west.

The Civil War was over the South trying to secede from the Union. If it was over slavery in the Western States/Territories, the war would have started earlier.

No one said that the Haitian Revolution didn't have an impact on the U.S. What they did say was that the H.R. was not THE reason for the Civil War. Which is true.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

The Civil War was over the South trying to secede from the Union. If it was over slavery in the Western States/Territories, the war would have started earlier.

No one said that the Haitian Revolution didn't have an impact on the U.S. What they did say was that the H.R. was not THE reason for the Civil War. Which is true.

I never said it was THE reason so what's the issue here? The point is without it, we're living in and talking about an extremely different world, especially as ADOS.

 

[xoxodede]

Thanks for bringing this to The Root.

The Haitian Revolution was not a catalyst or spark for the Civil War.

So, before I get started -- can you state your reasons and sources that the HR directly or helped to spark the Civil War? Also, can you reference how the HR impacted or got to the majority of enslaved americans in the Black Belt? Or how the HR triggered events that lead up to our ancestors freedom?

Again, giving respect to Haitians and the HR -- but it did not impact our ancestors enslavement or help them gain their freedom.

This is the post/article/blog that the OP referenced in his post in the other thread: The Haitian Revolution and the Forging of America -- and I'm sure he didn't read the book he posted -- I did though.

I have also read: The Impact of the Haitian Revolution in the Atlantic World by David P. Geggus, The Black Jacobins by CLR James The Black Jacobins - Wikipedia and "Encountering Revolution: Haiti and the Making of the Early Republic" by Ashli White.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

I never said it was THE reason so what's the issue here? The point is without it, we're living in and talking about an extremely different world, especially as ADOS.

This was the contentious text.

So the Haitian Revolution... doubled the size of the US... which made for new territory to expand slavery... which sparked the Civil War, but had nothing to do with the Civil War

That didn't spark the Civil War. Secession sparked the Civil War.

There were several issues that led to brink of war. Slavery expansion in the territories was one of them. The 3/5th rule giving the South an unfair advantage in Congress was another. A Democrat constantly being President was yet another.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

Thanks for bringing this to The Root.

The Haitian Revolution was not a catalyst or spark for the Civil War.

So, before I get started -- can you state your reasons and sources that the HR directly or helped to spark the Civil War? Also, can you reference how the HR impacted or got to the majority of enslaved americans in the Black Belt? Or how the HR triggered events that lead up to our ancestors freedom?

Again, giving respect to Haitians and the HR -- but it did not impact our ancestors enslavement or help them gain their freedom.

This is the post/article/blog that the OP referenced in his post in the other thread: The Haitian Revolution and the Forging of America -- and I'm sure he didn't read the book he posted -- I did though.

I have also read: The Impact of the Haitian Revolution in the Atlantic World by David P. Geggus, The Black Jacobins by CLR James The Black Jacobins - Wikipedia and "Encountering Revolution: Haiti and the Making of the Early Republic" by Ashli White.

This was the contentious text.


That didn't spark the Civil War. Secession sparked the Civil War.

There were several issues that led to brink of war. Slavery expansion in the territories was one of them. The 3/5th rule giving the South an unfair advantage in Congress was another. A Democrat constantly being President was yet another.

I pretty much broke it down in the OP. I'm not sure how y'all think we get to the Civil War and everything afterward without the Haitian Revolution. Where is the Civil War without the Missouri Compromise, delineating free and slave states and fomenting tensions? Where is the Missouri Compromise without the Louisiana Purchase? Where is the Louisiana Purchase without the French failing? Again we're talking about the US specifically but Global ramifications were made.

 

[xoxodede]

I pretty much broke it down in the OP. I'm not sure how y'all think we get to the Civil War and everything afterward without the Haitian Revolution. Where is the Civil War without the Missouri Compromise, delineating free and slave states and fomenting tensions? Where is the Missouri Compromise without the Louisiana Purchase? Where is the Louisiana Purchase without the French failing? Again we're talking about the US specifically but Global ramifications were made.

Yeah -- it was YEARS later. The HR was in 1804. Before they stopped the importation of slaves - in 1808. The CW started almost 60 years after the HR. And again -- the majority of the enslaved was in Confederate States - the DEEP south that had no way of hearing about the HR. Plus, Louisiana - remained one of the top slave imports/exports for the internal slave trade. I'm just trying to understand your statements.

So, you are saying the Louisiana Purchase helped spark the CW?

 

[Secure Da Bag]

So, you are saying the Louisiana Purchase helped spark the CW?

Or even. Is he saying that without the Louisiana Purchase slavery wouldn't have ended? A war wouldn't have happened? The North wouldn't have tried to end slavery?

 

[xoxodede]

Or even. Is he saying that without the Louisiana Purchase slavery wouldn't have ended? A war wouldn't have happened? The North wouldn't have tried to end slavery?

I don't know.

I think it's babble right now -- and based on his responses I know he didn't read the book he posted. Nor is well versed on the CW.

I do know everyone always ties everyone else's victories to ADOS. Like without them - it would be no US -- or freedom. It's like everyone else's trumiphs and histories can stand on their own - but not ours or our ancestors.

Here are a few GREAT resources on the CW -- and what led up to it. The Haitian Revolution wasn't it.

The War Before the War: Fugitive Slaves and the Struggle for America's Soul from the Revolution to the Civil War

The devastating story of how fugitive slaves drove the nation to Civil War.

For decades after its founding, America was really two nations - one slave, one free. There were many reasons why this composite nation ultimately broke apart, but the fact that enslaved black people repeatedly risked their lives to flee their masters in the South in search of freedom in the North proved that the "united" states was actually a lie. Fugitive slaves exposed the contradiction between the myth that slavery was a benign institution and the reality that a nation based on the principle of human equality was in fact a prison house in which millions of Americans had no rights at all. By awakening Northerners to the true nature of slavery, and by enraging Southerners who demanded the return of their human "property", fugitive slaves forced the nation to confront the truth about itself.

By 1850, with America on the verge of collapse, Congress reached what it hoped was a solution - the notorious Compromise of 1850, which required that fugitive slaves be returned to their masters. Like so many political compromises before and since, it was a deal by which white Americans tried to advance their interests at the expense of black Americans. Yet the Fugitive Slave Act, intended to preserve the Union, in fact set the nation on the path to civil war. It divided not only the American nation, but also the hearts and minds of Americans who struggled with the timeless problem of when to submit to an unjust law and when to resist.

The fugitive slave story illuminates what brought us to war with ourselves and the terrible
​

The Field of Blood: Violence in Congress and the Road to Civil War

The previously untold story of the violence in Congress that helped spark the Civil War

In The Field of Blood, Joanne B. Freeman recovers the long-lost story of physical violence on the floor of the US Congress. Drawing on an extraordinary range of sources, she shows that the Capitol was rife with conflict in the decades before the Civil War. Legislative sessions were often punctuated by mortal threats, canings, flipped desks, and all-out slugfests. When debate broke down, congressmen drew pistols and waved Bowie knives. One representative even killed another in a duel. Many were beaten and bullied in an attempt to intimidate them into compliance, particularly on the issue of slavery.

These fights didn't happen in a vacuum. Freeman's dramatic accounts of brawls and thrashings tell a larger story of how fisticuffs and journalism, and the powerful emotions they elicited, raised tensions between North and South and led toward war. In the process, she brings the antebellum Congress to life, revealing its rough realities - the feel, sense, and sound of it - as well as its nation-shaping import.

Funny, tragic, and rivetingly told, The Field of Blood offers a front-row view of congressional mayhem and sheds new light on the careers of John Quincy Adams, Henry Clay, and other luminaries, as well as introducing a host of lesser-known but no less fascinating men. The result is a fresh understanding of the workings of American democracy and the bonds of Union on the eve of their greatest peril.
​

The Impending Crisis: America Before the Civil War: 1848-1861

David M. Potter's Pulitzer Prize-winning The Impending Crisis is the definitive history of antebellum America. Potter's sweeping epic masterfully charts the chaotic forces that climaxed with the outbreak of the Civil War: westward expansion, the divisive issue of slavery, the Dred Scott decision, John Brown's uprising, the ascension of Abraham Lincoln, and the drama of Southern secession. The Impending Crisis remains one of the most celebrated works of American historical writing.​

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

Yeah -- it was YEARS later. The HR was in 1804. Before they stopped the importation of slaves - in 1808. The CW started almost 60 years after the HR. And again -- the majority of the enslaved was in Confederate States - the DEEP south that had no way of hearing about the HR. Plus, Louisiana - remained one of the top slave imports/exports for the internal slave trade. I'm just trying to understand your statements.

So, you are saying the Louisiana Purchase helped spark the CW?

I'm saying the Louisiana Purchase DEFINITELY wouldn't have happened if not for the Haitian Revolution. They had big plans here. It didn't directly spark the war, but it had a domino effect. A GLOBAL power just got taken off it's game yall! Very specific and undeniable scenarios that would eventually lead to the Civil War occurred as a result, quantifying the time is useless. "It was 60 years after" is on par with saying "Slavery was 150 years ago" therefore it doesn't matter today. Now I KNOW you feel that The best way to understand history is to understand how things simmer. At the same time, I think a holistic approach is healthy. It took 60 years for the Civil War to pop off and yet in the course of four years, the US doubled in size AND abolished slave trade. That's not coincidence.

Or even. Is he saying that without the Louisiana Purchase slavery wouldn't have ended? A war wouldn't have happened? The North wouldn't have tried to end slavery?

It wouldn't have ended the way we know it, no. The variables without the Haitian Revolution are incomprehensible, and that's what I'm here to expound upon and help y'all pay respects too, if possible. It's not just slavery, the United States would be a different country. Maybe they would've expanded and/or gone to war with modern day Canada. Maybe they would've gone to war with France for Louisiana territory, maybe they would've been content with their little slice of 'freedom', etc. It's impossible to say.

But what we CAN say, is what happened it Haiti, and what it meant for them... The French... The United States... the Caribbean... the African continent... and of course ADOS people

 

[xoxodede]

I'm saying the Louisiana Purchase DEFINITELY wouldn't have happened if not for the Haitian Revolution. They had big plans here. It didn't directly spark the war, but it had a domino effect. A GLOBAL power just got taken off it's game yall! Very specific and undeniable scenarios that would eventually lead to the Civil War occurred as a result, quantifying the time is useless. "It was 60 years after" is on par with saying "Slavery was 150 years ago" therefore it doesn't matter today. Now I KNOW you feel that The best way to understand history is to understand how things simmer. At the same time, I think a holistic approach is healthy. It took 60 years for the Civil War to pop off and yet in the course of four years, the US doubled in size AND abolished slave trade. That's not coincidence.



It wouldn't have ended the way we know it, no. The variables without the Haitian Revolution are incomprehensible, and that's what I'm here to expound upon and help y'all pay respects too, if possible. It's not just slavery, the United States would be a different country. Maybe they would've expanded and/or gone to war with modern day Canada. Maybe they would've gone to war with France for Louisiana territory, maybe they would've been content with their little slice of 'freedom', etc. It's impossible to say.

But what we CAN say, is what happened it Haiti, and what it meant for them... The French... The United States... the Caribbean... the African continent... and of course ADOS people

OK. -- I can agree. But, that didn't have anything to do with the CW -- or ADOS - -and our ancestors enslavement -- nor them gaining freedom.

No, it didn't have a domino effect. You are going to have to cite/source that. Cause it did not.

And Yes -- if you were correct -- we would NOT have seen Louisiana become a SLAVE state, a TOP slave export -- and so on. Louisiana was unlike ANY other Confederate state -- if was also the top location for "blacks" -- many from Haiti who were enslavers as well.

Doubled in sized and did what!? It aint like that helped anything for ADOS enslaved ancestors -- again -- most of our ancestors knew nothing of the HR - with all due respect to them.

No, you don't know how I feel. And I know it's NO way you are a history major -- if so..... it's sad.

Your argument is the same as the US would be different or in existence -- if our ancestors weren't sold into slavery.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

The Haitian Revolution can be credited for setting the stage for abolitionists and anti-abolitionists to be on a more contentious path. It certainly changed the balance of power in Europe for sure. But the North and South was already on the road of reckoning when it came to the slavery issue. The HR at best hastened that situation. It didn't create the conditions for the disagreement.

Though if you like, I'll grant you that the HR gave some Southerners paranoia due to what happened to slaveowners in Haiti.

 

[xoxodede]

The Haitian Revolution can be credited for setting the stage for abolitionists and anti-abolitionists to be on a more contentious path. It certainly changed the balance of power in Europe for sure. But the North and South was already on the road of reckoning when it came to the slavery issue. The HR at best hastened that situation. It didn't create the conditions for the disagreement.

Though if you like, I'll grant you that the HR gave some Southerners paranoia due to what happened to slaveowners in Haiti.

Perfect comment.

My thoughts exactly. Nothing more - nothing less.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

@Jesus is my protector you have a unique perspective on this, given your background. Your thoughts?