Struggle of Poor Students

[MikelArteta]

i wish i learned a trade

 

[Darth Nubian]

It's been that way for thirty years or more. Now you can discuss it on the internet in private. We used to just assume that people were doing well because of their clothes, car, or house. Now we all know that the majority of people aren't building wealth, they are just financing the American Dream. Just think, your grandparents may not have had much, but they owned everything that they had. Most people don't even own the computer they are posting from nor the sofa they are sitting on.

 

[No1]

missed that part.....

Real talk in 2013, if there is a black agenda(minorities included), let's make this the year of no excuses and work on closing up that gap...

This exception talk, seems arbitrary, it's like lessen blacks other minorities to lower sub standards....

Here's some food for thought, I Listen to when I'm down and need some inspiration.

Common - It's your world (part 1 & 2) - YouTube

I could say much more, but let's agree to disagree, but there's a lot of irony in using Common to make your argument. I have to go but I'm sorry breh, you're just flat out wrong on this subject. So I'll just leave you with questions:

How in the world are we denigrating African-Americans when the children of African immigrants are the most educated group in this country? Why do third world people of black and african descent succeed at a higher rate than what we traditionally consider to be African-American? What do they and Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians and other ethnic groups have in common?

Did you forget that we screen who comes into the country? Why do you think that those people that make that choice, and go through those hurdles are much more successful than their countrymen who are placed in the United States based on resettlement programs due to conflicts (war,etc.)?

Why aren't Cambodians and Laotians as successful as other far east and Southeast Asians in the US? After you answer those questions I'll hope you realize that this is not some bleeding-heart argument, I don't make many of those anymore and I don't make excuses. This is an argument you can't win on any empirical grounds. Don't be lazy.

 

[J.Pinkman]

What's the deal with Americans studying overseas? Where fees are much cheaper?

Saying that, I'm on an exchange year in Seville and I've spoken to some Americans who are doing just one semester over here and paying $40k which is insane. I don't pay a single penny.

 

[theworldismine13]

I could say much more, but let's agree to disagree, but there's a lot of irony in using Common to make your argument. I have to go but I'm sorry breh, you're just flat out wrong on this subject. So I'll just leave you with questions:

How in the world are we denigrating African-Americans when the children of African immigrants are the most educated group in this country? Why do third world people of black and african descent succeed at a higher rate than what we traditionally consider to be African-American? What do they and Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians and other ethnic groups have in common?

Did you forget that we screen who comes into the country? Why do you think that those people that make that choice, and go through those hurdles are much more successful than their countrymen who are placed in the United States based on resettlement programs due to conflicts (war,etc.)?

Why aren't Cambodians and Laotians as successful as other far east and Southeast Asians in the US? After you answer those questions I'll hope you realize that this is not some bleeding-heart argument, I don't make many of those anymore and I don't make excuses. This is an argument you can't win on any empirical grounds. Don't be lazy.

i dont get it, so what exactly is your answer to those questions?

i got an answer to it, its culture

and i give props to serious for posting the common song, one of the biggest mistakes is the whole thing of people trying to say hip hop is just music, music is part of your culture and your culture is intrinsically tied to academic performance

i remember a couple when i talk about hip hop and knowledge everybody looked at me crazy but songs like common's are important in developing an academically oriented culture

 

[Serious]

I could say much more, but let's agree to disagree, but there's a lot of irony in using Common to make your argument. I have to go but I'm sorry breh, you're just flat out wrong on this subject. So I'll just leave you with questions:

How in the world are we denigrating African-Americans when the children of African immigrants are the most educated group in this country? Why do third world people of black and african descent succeed at a higher rate than what we traditionally consider to be African-American? What do they and Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians and other ethnic groups have in common?

Did you forget that we screen who comes into the country? Why do you think that those people that make that choice, and go through those hurdles are much more successful than their countrymen who are placed in the United States based on resettlement programs due to conflicts (war,etc.)?

Why aren't Cambodians and Laotians as successful as other far east and Southeast Asians in the US? After you answer those questions I'll hope you realize that this is not some bleeding-heart argument, I don't make many of those anymore and I don't make excuses. This is an argument you can't win on any empirical grounds. Don't be lazy.

not this argument again...

They're the best of the best, whom come affluent families abroad(SATIL).

Bro did you even read article? now, Fully from front to back.

I already addressed these issues; life happens.

But TWISM's right about culture:

One reason for the growing gap in achievement, researchers say, could be that wealthy parents invest more time and money than ever before in their children (in weekend sports, ballet, music lessons, math tutors, and in overall involvement in their children’s schools), while lower-income families, which are now more likely than ever to be headed by a single parent, are increasingly stretched for time and resources. This has been particularly true as more parents try to position their children for college, which has become ever more essential for success in today’s economy...



“Early life conditions and how children are stimulated play a very important role,” he said. “The danger is we will revert back to the mindset of the war on poverty, when poverty was just a matter of income, and giving families more would improve the prospects of their children. If people conclude that, it’s a mistake.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/e...agewanted=1&_r=3&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2&

 

[No1]

not this argument again...

They're the best of the best, whom come affluent families abroad(SATIL).

Bro did you even read article? now, Fully from front to back.

I already addressed these issues; life happens.

But TWISM's right about culture:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/e...agewanted=1&_r=3&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2&

What argument am I making again? The one you never answered using any sort of research, the one you answered by blurting out empty propositions based on what we're all taught to believe but research tells us is not the case? I saw that you wouldn't answer that as presented so I gave you questions. You're not answering my questions. I think I know why, but I would appreciate if you answered them. That SATIL stuff is not a full answer or a half answer because I was asking questions about people that aren't affluent largely.

Yes, culture is part of it, and even that proves my point of why certain poor kids succeed and others don't. Also, I'm trying to figure out why just posted up a link to an article that proves my point. :bert:

The entire point of that article was to give real life examples of what surrounds people from impoverished areas trying to make it, but those same problems happen to people who aren't poor. It wasn't meant to be the perfect example or anything of the sort. "Life happens" to everyone and people are imperfect, if we fall off the rails so easily due to those imperfections then that is a societal problem. But again, I don't have the energy to systematically break it down right now, that's why I gave you those questions. You're a smart guy, go research them. That's my alma matter you're quoting there, people I studied under, or people whose research I was exposed to, and they have no intention of you reaching the conclusion you're reaching.

 

[Serious]

What argument am I making again? The one you never answered using any sort of research, the one you answered by blurting out empty propositions based on what we're all taught to believe but research tells us is not the case? I saw that you wouldn't answer that as presented so I gave you questions. You're not answering my questions. I think I know why, but I would appreciate if you answered them. That SATIL stuff is not a full answer or a half answer because I was asking questions about people that aren't affluent largely.

Yes, culture is part of it, and even that proves my point of why certain poor kids succeed and others don't. Also, I'm trying to figure out why just posted up a link to an article that proves my point. :bert:

f*ck it, was trying to avoid, dropping a mini essay, when I get the chance, I'll address all the responses; thesis, primary sources, etc...

 

[88m3]

What argument am I making again? The one you never answered using any sort of research, the one you answered by blurting out empty propositions based on what we're all taught to believe but research tells us is not the case? I saw that you wouldn't answer that as presented so I gave you questions. You're not answering my questions. I think I know why, but I would appreciate if you answered them. That SATIL stuff is not a full answer or a half answer because I was asking questions about people that aren't affluent largely.

Yes, culture is part of it, and even that proves my point of why certain poor kids succeed and others don't. Also, I'm trying to figure out why just posted up a link to an article that proves my point. :bert:

The entire point of that article was to give real life examples of what surrounds people from impoverished areas trying to make it, but those same problems happen to people who aren't poor. It wasn't meant to be the perfect example or anything of the sort. "Life happens" to everyone and people are imperfect, if we fall off the rails so easily due to those imperfections then that is a societal problem. But again, I don't have the energy to systematically break it down right now, that's why I gave you those questions. You're a smart guy, go research them. That's my alma matter you're quoting there, people I studied under, or people whose research I was exposed to, and they have no intention of you reaching the conclusion you're reaching.

are you looking to make a case for eugenics?

 

[Gus Money]

Yeah but that example is sohh rare its almost infallible. More than likely the opportunity is glaring them in the face, but they refuse to accept the help for any reason.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/e...agewanted=1&_r=3&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2&

It can't be that rare of an example when statistics show that most people remain in the same socioeconomic class they're born into. It wouldn't make any sense for so many people to simply refuse opportunities to succeed. Plus, the article you linked clearly says that kids born into poor families have fewer resources necessary for academic success. What's rare is someone succeeding while facing all of the obstacles brought up earlier in this thread.

I think we can at least agree that this isn't a simple issue. Gene Marks (Forbes) got ripped to shreds last year for making similar comments trying to simplify things when he wrote an article saying that poor black kids should just get good grades despite the long odds facing them.

Here's the article: If I Were a Poor Black Kid (the link is safe, it goes to the Forbes website)

Not to mention, the article you posted ended on this note, explicitly saying that this is a complicated issue:

There are no easy answers, in part because the problem is so complex, said Douglas J. Besharov, a fellow at the Atlantic Council. Blaming the problem on the richest of the rich ignores an equally important driver, he said: two-earner household wealth, which has lifted the upper middle class ever further from less educated Americans, who tend to be single parents.

The problem is a puzzle, he said. “No one has the slightest idea what will work. The cupboard is bare.”