10th Paris attacker Salami Abdeslam captured alive in Belgium

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

thats why these muslims get NO sympathy from me. They've got some serious endemic issues.

Muslims get no sympathy from you because you have a hegemony/authoritarian fetish. I am surprised you haven't jumped on board the Trump train yet. The biggest victim of Muslim terrorism is other Muslims.

 

[hashmander]

Wrong and wrong. Molenbeek has never been a "no-go area", for the simple reason it's a damn district in Brussels with some very well-off areas and other rough neighbourhoods. Mu sister used to live there, and a very good friend still lives there.

And Belgium has never been without a functional govt, let alone years. What you are mistakenly referering to is the year plus that we took to form the new government a couple of years ago, but the previous government was obviously in charge in the meantime and just went about with business.

i'll take the word of belgian authorities. you don't get to be jihadi central if the authorities have control of the area. that's just basic common sense and even without the words of belgian authorities i would have believed it be so because of what's coming out of that area.

Belgian minister’s statement revives talk of ‘no-go zones’
Visiting Molenbeek - home of two of the gunmen in the Paris attack

“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.” - Brice De Ruyver, who spent eight years as security adviser to then-Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt

as for the 20 months without govt, the reports i read said that belgian govt services, etc were running as normal, but the caretaker govt couldn't make major new decisions or go in new directions. responding to a severe terrorism problem sounds like a major decision or new direction to me. so maybe that had an impact on this neighborhood in brussels becoming jihadi central.

 

[mbewane]

i'll take the word of belgian authorities. you don't get to be jihadi central if the authorities have control of the area. that's just basic common sense and even without the words of belgian authorities i would have believed it be so because of what's coming out of that area.

Belgian minister’s statement revives talk of ‘no-go zones’
Visiting Molenbeek - home of two of the gunmen in the Paris attack

“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.” - Brice De Ruyver, who spent eight years as security adviser to then-Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt

as for the 20 months without govt, the reports i read said that belgian govt services, etc were running as normal, but the caretaker govt couldn't make major new decisions or go in new directions. responding to a severe terrorism problem sounds like a major decision or new direction to me. so maybe that had an impact on this neighborhood in brussels becoming jihadi central.

The point is that you said "Molenbeek" is a no-go zone, which is untrue because Molenbeek is basically a city in itself (what people know as "Brussels" is 19 cities/districts called Communes put together). That's like saying Brooklyn is a no-go zone. As in any district, Molenbeek has rough areas, and not so rough areas. My sister lived there for 10 years with her family, no problem. I have friends who live there right now. I'll take my eyes and my own experience over what a Flemish liberal will say about Brussels.

So you did read that Belgium had a functionning gvt but wrote the opposite Caretaker gvt had the presidency of the European Council, decided to send Belgium in the Lybia war and was taking care of business at the height of the euro-crisis. People in the opposition (who were taking ages to form the new government) actually complained that the gvt was doing too much And that was in 2010-2011, totally unrelated to the current terror emergency situation. Plus all the major factors that people are pointing to the cause of areas of Molenbeek being what they are are social and city infrastructure, as well as education, all competencies of local and regional gvts, that were well in place. The 2010-2011 crisis was at the federal level.

Belgium, Brussels Region and Molenbeek Commune have all had major fukk-ups over the years that have lead to this current situation, but that's not a reason to just say whatever.

 

[hashmander]

The point is that you said "Molenbeek" is a no-go zone, which is untrue because Molenbeek is basically a city in itself (what people know as "Brussels" is 19 cities/districts called Communes put together). That's like saying Brooklyn is a no-go zone. As in any district, Molenbeek has rough areas, and not so rough areas. My sister lived there for 10 years with her family, no problem. I have friends who live there right now. I'll take my eyes and my own experience over what a Flemish liberal will say about Brussels.

So you did read that Belgium had a functionning gvt but wrote the opposite Caretaker gvt had the presidency of the European Council, decided to send Belgium in the Lybia war and was taking care of business at the height of the euro-crisis. People in the opposition (who were taking ages to form the new government) actually complained that the gvt was doing too much And that was in 2010-2011, totally unrelated to the current terror emergency situation. Plus all the major factors that people are pointing to the cause of areas of Molenbeek being what they are are social and city infrastructure, as well as education, all competencies of local and regional gvts, that were well in place. The 2010-2011 crisis was at the federal level.

Belgium, Brussels Region and Molenbeek Commune have all had major fukk-ups over the years that have lead to this current situation, but that's not a reason to just say whatever.

i said molenbeek was a no go zone because that's how it was reported by people who were in the belgian govt and would obviously know more about it than me. you're telling me what i said and i actually provided a quote from a prime minister's security adviser.

“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.”

if you want to be literal and think i meant that the belgian govt has a list of where to go and not go then your'e be ridiculous. whenever the media or anyone talks about a no-go zone in a country not at war, it's obviously informal.

 

[mbewane]

i said molenbeek was a no go zone because that's how it was reported by people who were in the belgian govt and would obviously know more about it than me. you're telling me what i said and i actually provided a quote from a prime minister's security adviser.

“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.”

if you want to be literal and think i meant that the belgian govt has a list of where to go and not go then your'e be ridiculous. whenever the media or anyone talks about a no-go zone in a country not at war, it's obviously informal.

If you want to be literal you can reread the quote you put : he said that what he calls "no-go zones" are in Molenbeek, not that Molenbeek (as in : all of it) is a no-go zone. That's my point. And again, I always take what Flemish politicians (especially on the liberal side) have to say about Brussels, for reasons only people who actually know Belgian politics understand.

I see you didn't answer to the clarifications I gave on the gvt crisis though, I assume you understand what you said was wrong.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Muslims get no sympathy from you because you have a hegemony/authoritarian fetish. I am surprised you haven't jumped on board the Trump train yet. The biggest victim of Muslim terrorism is other Muslims.

Its their job to police their own.

"Moderate" islam is deplorable in its most honest form.

And i'm definitely not an authoritarian...but its funny a lot of you all hate to assert what you value in society.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Its their job to police their own.

"Moderate" islam is deplorable in its most honest form.

And i'm definitely not an authoritarian...but its funny a lot of you all hate to assert what you value in society.

It's the police's job to police. Who do you police?

And you are definitely an authoritarian. You are a cheerleader for unchecked surveillance and unlimited punishment against anyone who threatens the status quo.

 

[hashmander]

If you want to be literal you can reread the quote you put : he said that what he calls "no-go zones" are in Molenbeek, not that Molenbeek (as in : all of it) is a no-go zone. That's my point. And again, I always take what Flemish politicians (especially on the liberal side) have to say about Brussels, for reasons only people who actually know Belgian politics understand.

I see you didn't answer to the clarifications I gave on the gvt crisis though, I assume you understand what you said was wrong.

i didn't answer it because i don't live in belgium so i can't speak to the quality of govt, so if you say everything was great without an elected govt then i'll take your word for it. i simply said they didn't have a govt for along time because that's what was reported. maybe it was wrong for me to link the fact that they didn't have an elected govt with the fact they are europe's terrorist haven.

and i'll take your specificity on molenbeek and say that the areas of molenbeek these terrorists are from would have been considered by belgian officials to be no-go zones prior to paris if there were such official classifications.

 

[Danie84]

Terrorist is captured at the same spot they was looking for him all this time

 

[mbewane]

i didn't answer it because i don't live in belgium so i can't speak to the quality of govt, so if you say everything was great without an elected govt then i'll take your word for it. i simply said they didn't have a govt for along time because that's what was reported. maybe it was wrong for me to link the fact that they didn't have an elected govt with the fact they are europe's terrorist haven.

and i'll take your specificity on molenbeek and say that the areas of molenbeek these terrorists are from would have been considered by belgian officials to be no-go zones prior to paris if there were such official classifications.

Props. I didn't say everything was great, I said the gvt was functionning as any gvt, with good stuff and bad stuff being done. French people TO THIS DAY still think the country had no government at all at that period Obviously, makes for better headlines and good jokes. And anyways Belgium being a very federalized state, a lot of stuff was being managed at other levels. That's why listening to all that the media says is always tricky, especially concerning Belgium, a country no one (including neighbouring Europeans and expats actually living in Belgium) really know much about. There's a whole lot going on breh that is linked to internal politics.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

It's the police's job to police. Who do you police?

And you are definitely an authoritarian. You are a cheerleader for unchecked surveillance and unlimited punishment against anyone who threatens the status quo.

Nah. You're wrong here.

For far too long, these radicalized elements have festered and lingered and refused to integrate. If this is how they want to go out, this is what they chose.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Props. I didn't say everything was great, I said the gvt was functionning as any gvt, with good stuff and bad stuff being done. French people TO THIS DAY still think the country had no government at all at that period Obviously, makes for better headlines and good jokes. And anyways Belgium being a very federalized state, a lot of stuff was being managed at other levels. That's why listening to all that the media says is always tricky, especially concerning Belgium, a country no one (including neighbouring Europeans and expats actually living in Belgium) really know much about. There's a whole lot going on breh that is linked to internal politics.

I'm with @hashmander on this one...I've heard Molenbeek was always a problem spot and this isn't anything new. I had a friend in belgium working in consulting and he said that theres a significant criminal element there.

 

[mbewane]

I'm with @hashmander on this one...I've heard Molenbeek was always a problem spot and this isn't anything new. I had a friend in belgium working in consulting and he said that theres a significant criminal element there.

When did I say there wasn't

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Nah. You're wrong here.

For far too long, these radicalized elements have festered and lingered and refused to integrate. If this is how they want to go out, this is what they chose.

So you don't police within your own community, but hold Muslims at fault for supposedly not policing their own?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

So you don't police within your own community, but hold Muslims at fault for supposedly not policing their own?

red herring