2/20 ESPN: Miguel Berchelt vs Oscar Valdez (WBC Super Featherweight Title)

Who Wins?


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Dallas' 4 Eva

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dog we live in a world where adam lopez gave valdez a harder fight than berchelt...and adam lopez is a damn prospect :heh:...valdez was looking worn down and getting in all type of debilitating wars with guys not really perceived on his level breh

That is more indicative on how Berchelt wasn't as good as advertised than on who Valdez has fought. Perception can be very wrong.
 

patscorpio

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That is more indicative on how Berchelt wasn't as good as advertised than on who Valdez has fought. Perception can be very wrong.
I think theres a lack of understanding why ppl picked Berchelt. You might be one of those people. Keep in mind at no point was valdez ever discussed as the best featherweight in his division. Hell not even second best. He was seen as the most vulnerable of the featherweight champions when he had it. There is a reason why that is and ppl went :whoa: to 130 run. Hell Shakur was his mando before he dropped the belt and everyone pretty much said he would get beat by him. Hell they at 130 and ppl are still staying it.

Valdez in spite of his flaws got him a great victory. Berchelt has the actual names on his record but he fought them battle scarred and valdez is also battle scarred. So there was no change in Berchelt's comp going into this fight:heh:
 

patscorpio

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I will say this Berchelt asked for this. TR was trying to build a unification between him and Jamel Herring when both fighters had enough interest behind them to make it a compelling fight and Berchelt went :whoa: to that for no reason to try to catch Valdez slippin because they both liked to slug it out...he paid for it...can't be changing your career trajectory like that lol
 

Dallas' 4 Eva

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I think theres a lack of understanding why ppl picked Berchelt. You might be one of those people. Keep in mind at no point was valdez ever discussed as the best featherweight in his division. Hell not even second best. He was seen as the most vulnerable of the featherweight champions when he had it. There is a reason why that is and ppl went :whoa: to 130 run. Hell Shakur was his mando before he dropped the belt and everyone pretty much said he would get beat by him. Hell they at 130 and ppl are still staying it.

Valdez in spite of his flaws got him a great victory. Berchelt has the actual names on his record but he fought them battle scarred and valdez is also battle scarred. So there was no change in Berchelt's comp going into this fight:heh:

I picked him to win on points Pat, I don't think you are getting where I am coming from. I analyzed this from a boxing aspect, not an accomplishments or resume standpoint, the resume came into effect second. On paper the only thing Betchelt was bringing to the table that was worrisome was his volume and power. No counter punching, doesn't cut off the ring, doesn't use his feet well, no head movement, doesn't mix up his punches at all, not to mention he compared to Valdez he is slow as molasses. On paper this was a complete mismatch(that's in house Top Rank boxing for you), but Berchelt still has the size and the power and anyone with power in boxing is dangerous regardless of skill level and at 126 Valdez was defensively irresponsible which left room for question in my book which is why I said I wouldn'tbe surprisedif he got slumped(there was a part of me that thought this was gonna be a 130 version of Canelo-Khan), plus I never expected his power to carry up like that, he looks like he is a bigger puncher at 130 than 126.

Reynoso improved his defense, but a lot of his good defense was due to the fact he was flat out too fast most of the time for Berchelt to touch him. He will give Tank or Shakur a good fight, but the physical advantages that he had on Berchelt are gonna be dead even or he will be at a disadvantage against either of them.

Boxing isn't the only sport where it happens, it happens in football and basketball too, but it is the worst in boxing where people will overlook obvious truths and advantages a fighter has based off accomplishments or on resume alone, when every matchup is different and needs to be analyzed as such, regardless of the wars he had at 126.
 

Dallas' 4 Eva

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I will say this Berchelt asked for this. TR was trying to build a unification between him and Jamel Herring when both fighters had enough interest behind them to make it a compelling fight and Berchelt went :whoa: to that for no reason to try to catch Valdez slippin because they both liked to slug it out...he paid for it...can't be changing your career trajectory like that lol

I know you don't think much of Herring(I don't either FWIW), but Herring does present some stylistic issues that would have made a fight between him and Berchelt rather boring.
 

patscorpio

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I picked him to win on points Pat, I don't think you are getting where I am coming from. I analyzed this from a boxing aspect, not an accomplishments or resume standpoint, the resume came into effect second. On paper the only thing Betchelt was bringing to the table that was worrisome was his volume and power. No counter punching, doesn't cut off the ring, doesn't use his feet well, no head movement, doesn't mix up his punches at all, not to mention he compared to Valdez he is slow as molasses. On paper this was a complete mismatch(that's in house Top Rank boxing for you), but Berchelt still has the size and the power and anyone with power in boxing is dangerous regardless of skill level and at 126 Valdez was defensively irresponsible which left room for question in my book which is why I said I wouldn'tbe surprisedif he got slumped(there was a part of me that thought this was gonna be a 130 version of Canelo-Khan), plus I never expected his power to carry up like that, he looks like he is a bigger puncher at 130 than 126.

Reynoso improved his defense, but a lot of his good defense was due to the fact he was flat out too fast most of the time for Berchelt to touch him. He will give Tank or Shakur a good fight, but the physical advantages that he had on Berchelt are gonna be dead even or he will be at a disadvantage against either of them.

Boxing isn't the only sport where it happens, it happens in football and basketball too, but it is the worst in boxing where people will overlook obvious truths and advantages a fighter has based off accomplishments or on resume alone, when every matchup is different and needs to be analyzed as such, regardless of the wars he had at 126.

you have to analyze the type of fights they had because it can also explain things...for example few expected that juanma lopez would be derailed by orlando salido....of if rocky martinez didnt have the wars he had could he have had a better performance or even beat lomachenko..hard fights will always need to be taken into the equation regardless of their skillset
 

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I know you don't think much of Herring(I don't either FWIW), but Herring does present some stylistic issues that would have made a fight between him and Berchelt rather boring.
i believe that...i said Berchelt prolly saw something in that fight where Herring won that belt that he didnt like and/or want to deal with
 

Dallas' 4 Eva

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you have to analyze the type of fights they had because it can also explain things...for example few expected that juanma lopez would be derailed by orlando salido....of if rocky martinez didnt have the wars he had could he have had a better performance or even beat lomachenko..hard fights will always need to be taken into the equation regardless of their skillset

I agree which is why I said resume comes in second when you analyze a fight. Valdez was the battle tested fighter, not Berchelt.

This fight was a lot easier to pick than say Loma-Lopez was. We still don't really know a lot about Lopez even after that fight. I knew enough about Valdez to pick this one.
 

Dallas' 4 Eva

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i believe that...i said Berchelt prolly saw something in that fight where Herring won that belt that he didnt like and/or want to deal with

Herring is very long for his size and one of the few things he is decent at is fighting behind his jab. He would of more than likely beaten Berchelt on points in a fairly :russell: fight.
 

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I picked him to win on points Pat, I don't think you are getting where I am coming from. I analyzed this from a boxing aspect, not an accomplishments or resume standpoint, the resume came into effect second. On paper the only thing Betchelt was bringing to the table that was worrisome was his volume and power. No counter punching, doesn't cut off the ring, doesn't use his feet well, no head movement, doesn't mix up his punches at all, not to mention he compared to Valdez he is slow as molasses. On paper this was a complete mismatch(that's in house Top Rank boxing for you), but Berchelt still has the size and the power and anyone with power in boxing is dangerous regardless of skill level and at 126 Valdez was defensively irresponsible which left room for question in my book which is why I said I wouldn'tbe surprisedif he got slumped(there was a part of me that thought this was gonna be a 130 version of Canelo-Khan), plus I never expected his power to carry up like that, he looks like he is a bigger puncher at 130 than 126.

Reynoso improved his defense, but a lot of his good defense was due to the fact he was flat out too fast most of the time for Berchelt to touch him. He will give Tank or Shakur a good fight, but the physical advantages that he had on Berchelt are gonna be dead even or he will be at a disadvantage against either of them.

Boxing isn't the only sport where it happens, it happens in football and basketball too, but it is the worst in boxing where people will overlook obvious truths and advantages a fighter has based off accomplishments or on resume alone, when every matchup is different and needs to be analyzed as such, regardless of the wars he had at 126.

I mean if you watch the fight vs Gradovich, that is how Valdez looked vs Berchelt to me, except he did gas a little (still throws way too hard). Then if you watch the fights he's had since then (a great one being Quinn, who like Berchelt was much much bigger than Valdez), you'd think Valdez has no defense and would be a sitting duck for Berchelt.

Berchelt brought much more to the table than power, haha.
 
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